The Engine Shed

[AndrewB7585]

On 30/07/2022 at 10:02, No Decorum said:

 

“The P2, being only just over a decade old has secured itself a place as one of our classic locomotive models. The early P2 was created to be part of the Railroad range and previous Railroad models the P2 was totally new.” Something has gone wrong with the second sentence.

 

I think the word ‘unlike’ is missing, ie; “The early P2 was created to be part of the Railroad range and UNLIKE previous Railroad models the P2 was totally new”.

[No Decorum]

16 hours ago, AndrewB7585 said:

I think the word ‘unlike’ is missing, ie; “The early P2 was created to be part of the Railroad range and UNLIKE previous Railroad models the P2 was totally new”.

I’m sure that was the intention. Perhaps it should have read, “… like previous Railroad models the P2 was totally substandard.” That’s putting it politely although in the interest of fairness, I would have omitted “totally”. If you haven’t already guessed, I was one of the many who had a P2 with a dud motor. Also in the interest of fairness, I would concede that the motors in the ex-Lima diesels are far better than the original Lima motors, although the latter were, in my opinion, at least as good as the Hornby ones of that time.

[adb968008]

On 31/07/2022 at 16:50, ThaneofFife said:

Are Bachmann 90 pans available as spares as id sooner swap for one of those.

Yes, and so are Heljans 86.

i had to phone up for the Bachmann 90 pantograph, Heljans 86 can be pre-ordered here…

 

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/catalog/product/view/id/88588/s/Heljan-hn19850013/
Brecknell willis

 

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/catalog/product/view/id/88587/s/Heljan-hn19850012/
stone faiveley

 

fwiw I found the pantographs for: 

Trix 81,

Hornby & Heljans 86,

Hornby new 87

Bachmann and Hornbys class 90’s

Hornbys old 91

 

 are all dimensionally the same when it comes to the base frame.. so the holes in the roof body all align without further drilling or filling… you can swap freely, but obviously need ways to secure.

 

Bachmann 90 panto needs trimming the bar, if your not going to use/fit a servo/hole in the roof.

I have upgraded a few of my older ACs with more recent release pantographs… The Hornby 86 isnt at all bad (aside the headcode panel, and the Trix 81 body stands up to todays standards for detail and accuracy).

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by adb968008

[AndrewB7585]

5 hours ago, No Decorum said:

like previous Railroad models the P2 was totally substandard

Yes, I think you put it better than Hornby. Certainly more honesty. Railroad was a good idea in theory but it’s ended up as a collection of archaic models with a range of issues being sold at not much less than the cost of some higher quality products from other brands.
 

Fingers crossed the new P2 does justice to the subject and doesn’t have any of the niggles that the last few Hornby products have been plagued with 

[Black 5 Bear]

The new Engine Shed blog is up with the main feature dedicated to the forthcoming LMS Turbomotive locomotive:-https://uk.Hornby.com/community/blog-and-news/engine-shed/turbocharge-and-boulevard

[No Decorum]

14 hours ago, Black 5 Bear said:

The new Engine Shed blog is up with the main feature dedicated to the forthcoming LMS Turbomotive locomotive:-https://uk.Hornby.com/community/blog-and-news/engine-shed/turbocharge-and-boulevard

The Turbomotive looks good and I like the idea of the diecast body. One niggle is the flangeless trailing wheels. Would Hornby please ensure that the flanged alternatives which are likely to be provided will be able to turn? On the Hush Hush, they can’t but they could have if only Hornby had included wheel arches in the chassis casting. Even so, I ordered one from my usual model shop as soon as it was announced.

[Covkid]

The Turbomotive is shaping up well and all that diecast metal should provide good haulage capabilities.  Not sure the prototype information is totally accurate. I was told that Turbomotive was withdrawn with a defective or worn out turbine, and was dumped at Crewe works because of more pressing needs of the war effort. There was a "spare" Coronation class front end at Crewe works so it was eventually decided to marry the Coronation (Duchess) "engine" to the Princess Royal boiler and frames.  From the very brief period prior to the Harrow crash 46202 performed very strongly, the superior steam generating abilities of the Princess boiler feeding the superlative Duchess power plant -matching the best of both. 

 

From what I have read 46202 was not seriously damaged in the Harrow crash and could fairly easily have been repaired but unfortunately, there was an elephant in the room. 71000 "Duke of Gloucester" was being developed as the ultimate new pacific, and Princess Anne was condemned just in case it outperformed the new Riddles beauty.  Not sure if O S Nock or a contemporary even wrote about a comparison between 46202 and 71000 - assuming Princess Anne was fully trialled and tested before going back into traffic with it's new Duchess "engine".   

[Wickham Green too]

I'm intrigued by "the Southern style railway station building, typical of the kind that would be found all the way from Kent through to Penzance." ... what sort of screwed-up history are they trying to peddle there ? - I'm sure someone will recognise the actual inspiration for this model but there's no way the same building, in the same stone, would have been typical of those erected by the L.C.D.R. or S.E.R. and the L.S.W.R. ..... assuming they mean Padstow rather than Penzance anyway ! ( The only feature which would have appeared from one end of the Southern to t'other is the green paint detailing.)

[phil-b259]

21 minutes ago, Covkid said:

From what I have read 46202 was not seriously damaged in the Harrow crash and could fairly easily have been repaired but unfortunately, there was an elephant in the room. 71000 "Duke of Gloucester" was being developed as the ultimate new pacific, and Princess Anne was condemned just in case it outperformed the new Riddles beauty.  Not sure if O S Nock or a contemporary even wrote about a comparison between 46202 and 71000 - assuming Princess Anne was fully trialled and tested before going back into traffic with it's new Duchess "engine".   

 

IIRC it was not so much whether 46202 would out perform 71000, it was more a case that the accountants wouldn't let Riddles build 71000 as there was no 'business justification' for it in modern parlance.

 

By claiming 46202 was 'un-repairable' it left a theoretical hole in the LMR pacific fleet for Riddles to exploit. Had 46202 been repaired the accountants would never have let 71000 become a reality.

 

No different really from the many examples of locos that were officially 'rebuilds' in accounting terms but in practical terms where the resulting engine was 99% brand new.

[phil-b259]

20 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

I'm intrigued by "the Southern style railway station building, typical of the kind that would be found all the way from Kent through to Penzance." ... what sort of screwed-up history are they trying to peddle there ? - I'm sure someone will recognise the actual inspiration for this model but there's no way the same building, in the same stone, would have been typical of those erected by the L.C.D.R. or S.E.R. and the L.S.W.R. ..... assuming they mean Padstow rather than Penzance anyway ! ( The only feature which would have appeared from one end of the Southern to t'other is the green paint detailing.)

The signal box is reminiscent of Robertsbridge....

 

 

The station building does have echoes of Battle in its general feel

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9129975,0.4946723,3a,75y,100.84h,95.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stXr2Wxhd_bZyGlQzlnmg0g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Edited August 30, 2022 by phil-b259

[SteamingWales]

I noted in the blog that it is quoted that... 

 

"Apart from the cab structure, the tender body and certain small details the entirety of the locomotives boiler, chassis and running plate are all formed from diecast."

 

It might just be me, but from looking at the EP images it looks plastic. I know this could change and it is just the first sample but a basic 1st EP should have all the major parts made from the final materials?

[Edge]

13 minutes ago, SteamingWales said:

I noted in the blog that it is quoted that... 

 

"Apart from the cab structure, the tender body and certain small details the entirety of the locomotives boiler, chassis and running plate are all formed from diecast."

 

It might just be me, but from looking at the EP images it looks plastic. I know this could change and it is just the first sample but a basic 1st EP should have all the major parts made from the final materials?

it could be that they have included a plastic or 3D printed footplate at EP stage to check clearances and the like. It could also be that there were adjustments that had to be made recently which meant that the metal part wasn’t available. Wouldn’t read too much into it 

[jjb1970]

Whatever their faults, when they make an effort Hornby can produce a seriously nice kettle, I am really looking forward to the turbomotive. It's funny, I spend a lot of time whinging about Hornby yet so many of my all time favourite models (Schools class, King Arthur,air smoothed Merchant Navy, rebuilt BoB/WC, Castle, King) are from Hornby.

[MikeParkin65]

1 hour ago, No Decorum said:

The Turbomotive looks good and I like the idea of the diecast body. One niggle is the flangeless trailing wheels. Would Hornby please ensure that the flanged alternatives which are likely to be provided will be able to turn? On the Hush Hush, they can’t but they could have if only Hornby had included wheel arches in the chassis casting. Even so, I ordered one from my usual model shop as soon as it was announced.

On the plus side very pleasing to see a new casting for the front bogie complete with the distinctive front stretcher incorporated. Also they appear to be making a similar effort to model the equally distinctive bevelled Stanier 3ft pony wheels. Agree it would be good to see a properly fitting and revolving rear bogie wheel - preferably some attempt to make a functioning truck as well and thereby negate the need for the flangless wheel all together. 

[The Stationmaster]

Interesting to note that the Turbomotive has become part of 'the 2023 range' - they slipped that bit in carefully.   I would thought it highly unlikely that it would have made 2022 anyway so I wonder what else from the 2022 announcements is  now becoming part of the 2023 range?

 

Will Hornby's 2022 catalogue become the final one from their until now continuing 1970s style approach with an annual 'big bang' release and catalogue issue?

[SteamingWales]

19 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I wonder what else from the 2022 announcements is  now becoming part of the 2023 range?

 

How about all of the new 2022 new tooling announcements?

 

Out of the Turbomotive, Black 5, multiple unit thing, "Beavertail" Obs coach and LNER Coronation coaches only the Turbomotive has reached EP1 (as far as we know). Unless someone is hiding livery samples of all the other I would expect most to be delivered back end of 2023 or early 2024 TBH

[No Decorum]

1 hour ago, MikeParkin65 said:

On the plus side very pleasing to see a new casting for the front bogie complete with the distinctive front stretcher incorporated. Also they appear to be making a similar effort to model the equally distinctive bevelled Stanier 3ft pony wheels. Agree it would be good to see a properly fitting and revolving rear bogie wheel - preferably some attempt to make a functioning truck as well and thereby negate the need for the flangless wheel all together. 

I thought I would ask Mr. Kohler, who checked and confirmed that the bottom of the chassis will be 2mm clear of the flange. My thanks to him. There are all sorts of things which might be tried in order to get flanged trailing wheels to go round tight curves. For example, just making the frames out of brass rather than thick plastic. Most though, will add to the cost but ensuring that the wheels will turn shouldn’t cost much if incorporated at the design stage.

[TomScrut]

23 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Interesting to note that the Turbomotive has become part of 'the 2023 range' - they slipped that bit in carefully.   I would thought it highly unlikely that it would have made 2022 anyway so I wonder what else from the 2022 announcements is  now becoming part of the 2023 range?

 

Will Hornby's 2022 catalogue become the final one from their until now continuing 1970s style approach with an annual 'big bang' release and catalogue issue?

 

I do wonder if their current strategy for announcing items is suitable in the current landscape. Every year seems to have spill over, and the amount appears to have (although I do not have numbers) got bigger each year since the start of COVID.

 

I think for what Hornby do a combination of the Bachmann and Accurascale strategies would work best. Announcing new tooling at EP stage as per Accurascale and announcing reruns X (not necessarily 3) months prior to arrival.

[No Decorum]

11 minutes ago, SteamingWales said:

 

How about all of the new 2022 new tooling announcements?

 

Out of the Turbomotive, Black 5, multiple unit thing, "Beavertail" Obs coach and LNER Coronation coaches only the Turbomotive has reached EP1 (as far as we know). Unless someone is hiding livery samples of all the other I would expect most to be delivered back end of 2023 or early 2024 TBH

If everything arrived when it should, I for one would have to miss some stuff. Delays are quite welcome. Bachmann’s idea of announcing stuff as, or just before, it’s available means my money for the month has usually gone. 😧 Planning’s the thing. I’m all for giving an expected date and modifying it as necessary. (Where the Turbomotive is concerned I’ll admit that I ordered one straight away and worried about the money later.)

 

Edited August 30, 2022 by No Decorum
Posted before finished, however that happened.

[TomScrut]

29 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

Bachmann’s idea of announcing stuff as, or just before, it’s available means my money for the month has usually gone

 

If everyone did that, it might be a bit different though?

[No Decorum]

14 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

If everyone did that, it might be a bit different though?

It might. On the other hand, if Bachmann did as everyone else does, it would be easier to plan. I know why Bachy does it this way – it’s because of the many complaints about delays. From my point of view, it’s a case of, “Be careful what you wish for”.

[SteamingWales]

47 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

Bachmann’s idea of announcing stuff as, or just before, it’s available means my money for the month has usually gone. 😧 Planning’s the thing. I’m all for giving an expected date and modifying it as necessary.

 

Have to agree on the Bachmann comment. If they were to release a new GWR 2251 I would be looking to buy atleast 2, maybe more which I simply couldn't afford within a month or so.

 

It goes back to the question that Accurascale asked a few years back of "At what stage of development do you want us to announce something?" and I do think EPs are the way to go (most of the time, thinking early Titgate saga) as then delivery is likely 12-18 months later.

 

I'd say anything prior to EP is too "shot in the dark" with delivery time and annual announcements restrict opportunities for development and become "flag planting" stunts.

 

[MikeParkin65]

8 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

It might. On the other hand, if Bachmann did as everyone else does, it would be easier to plan. I know why Bachy does it this way – it’s because of the many complaints about delays. From my point of view, it’s a case of, “Be careful what you wish for”.

By accident or design Hornby are now for me in a different category (a tier if you like!) than any of the other manufacturers in terms of my buying policy. Basically I dont care when or even if they make a particular model - I'll only be interested if its available from a retailer at a reasonable price compared to other products from their competitors.

 

Other manufacturers still have my loyalty and I'll mix and match pre ordering and impulse purchases as finances allow. I rather like Bachmanns current announcement policy whilst Accurascale have earned my loyalty. Rapido also likely to secure pre orders from me.

 

Hornby have pretty much exhausted my goodwill so whilst good to see they have made progress with the Turbo I'm definitely not going to pre order.  

[spamcan61]

1 hour ago, TomScrut said:

 

I do wonder if their current strategy for announcing items is suitable in the current landscape. Every year seems to have spill over, and the amount appears to have (although I do not have numbers) got bigger each year since the start of COVID.

 

This must make it particularly baffling for newcomers to the hobby / casual buyers who purchase a Hornby catalogue then wander into a Hornby stockist with money to spend only to find that:-

 

1) A good chunk of the Hornby items (hopefully) in the shop aren't in that year's catalogue (being earlier releases).

 

2) Many of the items in the catalogue won't be available for another year or two, if ever.

[Wickham Green too]

4 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

... The station building does have echoes of Battle in its general feel ...

It's actually a fair match for Frant, a few miles up the line ( and ALMOST in Kent ! ).