roythebus Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 There's a nice video on youTube showing the rare sight of 2 steam specials "on the block" over Shap on 30/5/15. I don't know how to copy the link to here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Link here; Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Great video. Now if only both trains had a Tebay banker blasting away then the spectacle would be complete, knitting excepted! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium coronach Posted June 1, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 1, 2015 When was the last time this happened ? 1967 ? And with two LM loco's Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted June 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 1, 2015 Excellent - thanks for sharing Judging by the exhaust the fireman on the Jube was bending his back far more than his counterpart on the Brit. Nice also to hear the Brit starting to accelerate as she comes around the curve - was she being checked prior to that point? Great to see steam getting some good press on the main line again too Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 The Brit started from a dead stand at a signal at Danger since the 5X would be blocking back, so when it cleared the section, the Brit would have received a single yellow. This is why things were taken easy when it first began the climb, allowing the 5X to draw further ahead. When the Brit got two yellows (presumably), the driver opened her up with the effects shown - and heard. Very good work from the Brit, but while eleven bogies was on the heavy side for the 5X, I feel that 'Could have done better' is the verdict. The fireman's constant shovelling giving the very dark exhaust tells its own tale. An amzing scenario, however, and well done to the cameraman for a superb piece of footage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 That's what I thought, but the sight of 2 steam expresses in view in the same frame, wonderful. Note towards the end the DMU being checked at the signal! Well done to the loco crews and Network Rail for some thoughtful pathing over Shap, and the videoman. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted June 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 1, 2015 That's what I thought, but the sight of 2 steam expresses in view in the same frame, wonderful. Note towards the end the DMU being checked at the signal! It was a group of light (DBS) 66s that were checked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 When was the last time this happened ? 1967 ? And with two LM loco's Britannia was an ER loco first. I enjoyed the video, and the sounds of the blackbird and yellowhammer too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted June 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 1, 2015 The Brit started from a dead stand at a signal at Danger since the 5X would be blocking back, so when it cleared the section, the Brit would have received a single yellow. The timings show they were 3 minutes apart at Tebay with the 66s 2 minutes behind. 1Z86, 11:22, Carnforth D&U.G.L. - Sellafield (14:46) - 12:13 (+11) 1Z60, 05:40, Bristol Temple Meads - Appleby (13:53) - 12:16 (+6) 0xxx, 11:50, Arpley Sidings - Carlisle N.Y. (14:49) - 12:18 (-88) Years ago on a special to Glasgow, hauled by a 90, we were the second train following Taw Valley (iirc) up Shap, my son and I were watching out of the front coach, front window and it was interesting seeing the steam rising in the distance and watching the signals stepping up to yellows as our driver matched the speed of the steamer (around 25 was no problem for a 90 of course) - the steamer got put inside at Penrith and we got the greens, the 90 opened up and we passed it doing around 70 - with lots of tooting ! great fun and I wish I'd taken a video with me ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Is this the state of steam hauled mainline tours these days? Load a 60-80 year old loco with as many carriages as is the limit for a climb, just for the benefit of a few expensive camera toting linesiders, whose only aim seems to be to get a double page spread in Steam Railway? All I can say is who allows this thrashing of old locomotives to happen, and why in that order (with the least powerful loco going first)? Thank God it was not raining. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted June 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 1, 2015 Is this the state of steam hauled mainline tours these days? Load a 60-80 year old loco with as many carriages as is the limit for a climb, just for the benefit of a few expensive camera toting linesiders, whose only aim seems to be to get a double page spread in Steam Railway? All I can say is who allows this thrashing of old locomotives to happen, and why in that order (with the least powerful loco going first)? Thank God it was not raining. These things are maintained in much better condition than they ever were on BR. They have FTRs before every trip, this alone should ensure that everything is as it should be. Yes nominally they are old locos, but in reality a lot of the gubbins on them is not that old. 'Thrashing' is an emotive word, and shouldn't be confused with an engine working hard, which is what the things are designed for. Most of today's steam drivers drive the things pretty sympathetically, they understand that if if it breaks they simply can't call up another one, which again is a big difference from BR days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Maintenance was not my point. If that is the only variable to be considered why not allow Galatea up the Lickey with that load unaided? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Given that the driver of the 60+ year old Brit had to be held back without a run at the climb, no banker, AND he was picking up speed gradually with the smallest amount of slip, I think he did very well considering - respect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Given that the driver of the 60+ year old Brit had to be held back without a run at the climb, no banker, AND he was picking up speed gradually with the smallest amount of slip, I think he did very well considering - respect. Exactly, and your verdict on Galatea? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Not sure what your point it is. What more did you want Galatea to do? It lifted it's train up the bank without any fuss whatsoever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Not sure what your point it is. What more did you want Galatea to do? It lifted it's train up the bank without any fuss whatsoever. At 15mph..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 And? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Is this the state of steam hauled mainline tours these days? Load a 60-80 year old loco with as many carriages as is the limit for a climb, just for the benefit of a few expensive camera toting linesiders, whose only aim seems to be to get a double page spread in Steam Railway? All I can say is who allows this thrashing of old locomotives to happen, and why in that order (with the least powerful loco going first)? Thank God it was not raining. I can't say that I agree with you on this, and I speak as someone (as part of a group) which took a loco on to the main line. Overloading did happen (on 18th October 1997 northbound over the Central Wales line), and that showed up some appalling planning by Railtrack, but I can't say it did the engine any harm. These things were designed and built to work hard, and I for one enjoy seeing - and hearing - them do that. Frankly, if you're going to put a trifling load behind a big engine so no-one can hear it, you might as well leave main line running and stick to preserved lines and their 25 mph speed limit. The load here was within the capacity of the 5X; it just didn't produce a particularly good performance on the day. But it wasn't overloaded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted June 1, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 1, 2015 At 15mph.....If a suitable path can be found which will accommodate that then why not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I have no objection to steam locos working hard, but maybe one coach less would have been more appropriate? How many were on there, 11? It was only luck with the weather that it was not blowing a gale and continuous heavy rain or drizzle, nothing to do with the planning. My point would be, would a Jubilee with 11 on have been allowed over Shap without a banker in the 1950s? There would be no need to go to the other extreme of a 'trifling load', or restricting locos to preserved lines, but instead of having the maximum possible load, just have the load that can be taken over the summit at a reasonable speed (although I realise that one person's reasonable is another person's 'well within capabilities'). But, to me, the sight of a steam loco working hard at 35-40 mph uphill on a passenger service is far more enjoyable than one struggling at 15-20 mph. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted June 1, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 1, 2015 All I can say is who allows this thrashing of old locomotives to happen, and why in that order (with the least powerful loco going first)? That's so that if the Jubilee "stalled" it would have the "Brit" behind it to give it a "shove" and as a final back up if that failed, the Class 66's could assist in the rear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Exactly, and your verdict on Galatea? We saw less of the climb for Galatea, again without assistance, and a '5XP' instead of 7P, you can be assured there can be no complaints. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 If a suitable path can be found which will accommodate that then why not? Precisely, and if the following service is continually being checked by signals, then it cannot be considered a 'suitable path'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted June 1, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 1, 2015 Very polite LMS 2968 and I agree totally. OK so the Jub had a dirty fire and I've no idea what happened lower down the bank, but both loco's were doing well and the Brit driver showed exactly how good these engines can be with the 'right crews'. The only thing I would say 777 has a point about is the bit about rain. I hate diesel back up, however it can save embarrassment. We are so lucky to have trains like this back on the main line. Please let's enjoy them; I certainly did with these sounds taking me back to the days of Mr Handford. Wonderful stuff. 36E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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