Ilkley locomotive shed, 4mm P4 1950s

[Kiwirail]

Great stuff Pete.  Good to see some progress.

 

Summer here in New Zealand so little time for indoor things, but I did manage to get the railway room finally cleared out after construction works finished months ago...  We may see progress at my end prior to 2035 at this rate.

 

I agree that on closer inspection the coaling stage drawing has a number of detail differences from the available photograph.  I've often wondered with old drawings how much detail was left up to the contractor 150 years ago.  As an engineer myself I see a lot of drawings (typically 20 A3 sheets for an ordinary house here in NZ!) yet things like an engine shed or station roof appear to have been defined in only two or three sheets in times past.  There must have been much more reliance back then on good trades practice and site instruction by the designer.

 

Cheers

Andrew

[Jub45565]

Hi All,

 

Just a brief post, mainly to apologise for the long silence!  Things have been busy (in life, the universe, and everything) but thats not to say I haven't had time to make some progress. What I havent had time to do is both make progress AND document it!  This weekend I am taking the layout to Scaleforum, in Aylesbury, as part of the Scalefour Society Bristol Area Group demo/show and tell.  If you're there please come and say hello.  I know there are a few further flung followers of this topic though and once this deadline is out of the way, and the dust has settled, I will make sure to post some updates.  The deadline has been good to focus my attention and get things done.

 

Cheers,

[Jub45565]

Hi All,

 

As promised, a bit of a post Scaleforum forum update.  Firstly thanks to those who came and looked, asked and chatted.  I wasn't quite sure what sort of reception to expect - there are many people who vocally deride both loco shed layouts and part built layouts, so maybe two wrongs make a right!     For my part, as shed layouts go, I think it is operationally interesting as it isnt exactly well laid out for efficient operation!  Thanks also to Mark Tatlow for allowing me a bit of time to look around on both days.

 

So the current state of play:

 

 

The turntable has rails, 1 handrail, but is neither motorised nor wired up pick up wise.  The problem is getting it to rotate smoothly.  The central bearing is fine, but the wheels are 4 laminated etches which then need cleaning etc and are causing me the issues.  I bought some lowmac wheels at the weekend which will be my next test.  The stepper motor drive (Arduino based) is ready to go once I have it rotating freely.  I will then turn my attention to a locking bar mechanism.

 

 

 

 

The CAD for the shed stonework is nearing completion, with a couple more tests to do with interlocking pieces and doing course lines around the edge of the buttresses, but printouts of the current state were used for the exhibition.  The window etches were built and in place.  Also to be seen are some cheap Chinese lamps.  These were about £2 for 20, and are very much a placeholder but do help to set the scene for the time being

 

 

 

These last two are a test of LED lighting. Firstly is with the LED strips as I have them, which are 3 strips all of warm white.  The blue backscene is quite washed out with this:

 

 

and with Richard's (a fellow Bristol Area Group demoer, who was demostrating different lighting options) LED strip of 2 warm and 2 brilliant white (so overall 5 warm to 2 brilliant as both of our strips were on).  This helps lift the blue and green, and the unpainted teddy bear fur is more of a straw colour under them too.

 

Having seen this result I am planning to add 1 strip of brilliant white, possibly with a dimming option, bearing in mind that this was in a sportshall with a very warm white colour overall so a variable would allow me to adjust it on site.  I am also planning on moving the lighting strip outboard by a few more inches to stop the front/coaling road from being in shadow.

 

 

To answer another question from over the weekend, the teddybear fur is 'faux fur fabric material: wolf' from ebay.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Jub45565

[Michael Edge]

Don't forget that turntable wheels are usually flangeless - I made that mistake with the first one I built (although it does still work).

[Jub45565]

Don't forget that turntable wheels are usually flangeless - I made that mistake with the first one I built (although it does still work).

Yes, thanks Mike. I plan on taking the flanges off, but leaving the cone alone, and see how they do. They shouldnt have a cone either, but it shouldnt stop them working - and it is good to hear that yours works with flanges too!

[Ronchatt]

Pete, I like. From 60 year old memory's you have got the essence of the scene.

If I had the ability I could paint you a back scene from that memory  thanks Mate. 

                                                                                                                               Ron

[Jub45565]

Thanks Ron! Good to know its progressing in the right direction.

 

I do have plans for a fair bit along the backscene (telegraph poles, signal pulley posts, signals (1 twin arm on the mainline departure, and 1 to leave the shed - though I havent got a photo of the latter to confirm its type), fogmans hut) - but it would definitely add something to have a represention of the mainline, carriage siding and houses beyond on the backscene. I think this is a bit beyond my skillset though so will be staying blue!! I might revisit once everything else is done, but I can't see it happening.

 

If only a representative scene was available for a photo backscene (which may be possible for Embsay) - but with an electrified mainline and tesco on the other side it doesnt quite set the scene...

[LMS29]

Thanks Ron! Good to know its progressing in the right direction.I do have plans for a fair bit along the backscene (telegraph poles, signal pulley posts, signals (1 twin arm on the mainline departure, and 1 to leave the shed - though I havent got a photo of the latter to confirm its type), fogmans hut) - but it would definitely add something to have a represention of the mainline, carriage siding and houses beyond on the backscene. I think this is a bit beyond my skillset though so will be staying blue!! I might revisit once everything else is done, but I can't see it happening.If only a representative scene was available for a photo backscene (which may be possible for Embsay) - but with an electrified mainline and tesco on the other side it doesnt quite set the scene...

Pete,

 

I recognise that the modern stuff gets in the way but behind that the railway cottages and houses behind are still the same.

 

I Will look out for a photo of the signal. I am sure it appears in some shots I have seen.

 

The rest looks great.

 

Tom

[Jub45565]

Thanks Tom,yes you could be right. I'll have a scout when I'm next at my parents (could be soon, as we've recently lost of close family friend & I hope to make it) but generally seem to meet up with them elsewhere at the moment!

 

I had a bit of a trawl through last night, and came across 2. It appears in the background of the water tower photo, and also in a picture in the green Wharfedale and Airdale Bairstow book. In neither is it close up though and my untrained eye cant tell whether (or when) it was upgraded from lower to upper quadrant. The Embsay ones were done keeping the original posts, while the one at the other end of Ilkley shed got a new post as seen in progress in 1948 here:

 

 

and in 1956 after completion:

 

 

Both of these phtoos are onthe invaluable Embsay & Bolton Abbey railway archive section.

 

Of course the photo it should be in is the one of the Caledonian tank leaving shed, but it will be slap bang behind the loco...

[Jub45565]

Another thing I meant to mention earlier is that one thing the green Bairstow book shows clearly (p64 upper) is the difference in height between the sets of signals. The one for leaving shed is substantially shorter, which isn't too surprising given the range & speed of the locos needing to see it.

 

Also, I presume I can deduce the height of the twin arm one from the above photos, as the ladder will have had a standard rung spacing (& angle)? Whether I can then work out, or get a decent approximation of the telegraph pole height, is another matter.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Jub45565

[Tim V]

Also, I presume I can deduce the height of the twin arm one from the above photos, as the ladder will have had a standard rung spacing (& angle)? Whether I can then work out, or get a decent approximation of the telegraph pole height, is another matter.

Correct, that was how I deduced the height of signals on a certain well known layout. Somewhere I have the spacing of the rungs on a standard ladder ...

[Jub45565]

Correct, that was how I deduced the height of signals on a certain well known layout. Somewhere I have the spacing of the rungs on a standard ladder ...

Yes, I checked it out in the LMS signalling book & found it to be 9", & the signal - signal spacing is also drawn.

 

So I just need to work out the telegraph pole difference from that.

[Jub45565]

Cracking photo from 1895 here. It doesn't show any extra details I don't already have, though it does still have the doors in place! Plus a lovely MR 170 class 2-4-0.

 

https://railphotoprints.uk/p590546434/hb6b06e24#hb6b06e24

[Jub45565]

It's been a while since an update, but things have been bubbling away. Currently are a set of telegraph poles, 3mm brass rod with Wizard arms. Most photos show earlier arms - more of them, only 2 pots per arm - but just before starting work I refound a few later photos which had seen them replaced!

 

These are to be plugged into the layout using the bases as shown, and aligned with a rod through the pole which also sets the height.

 

They are removable for several reasons - 1 of which is that I plan to experiment with invisible thread wires. This may or may not work, but best to allow for it. It will also make some other scenic work easier without having to work around the poles.

 

 

This is probably the last proper update before Christmas- it seems it is now mere days away - so Merry Christmas everyone!

[Jub45565]

Firstly, before anyone points it out, I'm aware I took a photo of the wrong one! Ie this one has a crooked insulator pot, though it straightened out fine.

 

Secondly, to note that I soldered the white metal arms to the brass rod with DCC Concepts 100 degree solder. Much nicer to work with than the traditional low melt, and doesn't require the brass to be pre-tinned. I've used it on a couple of things this autumn, and it is now my go to whitemetal solder.

 

I will be making caps for the poles, I have 1,2 and 5 thou brass sheet so just need to work out which one looks best.

[Jub45565]

I have been quite here, but beavering away trying to make progress!  I will hopefully get a proper update done later in the month (which can also include a video clip of a rotating turntable...) but as a bit of a preview this photo shows some of it.

 

 

I need to blend in the veg patch, and colour the edibles... I also need to add a few more fence posts.  Ambis point levers have been assembled and are in the paint shops, these will then need timbers adding for, and the rodding added, before more ash ballast can be used to fill in some of the gaps. I also need to blend better the ash - granite ballast better. The van wasnt placed where it is on purpose, honest!

 

The signal is RTP from Dapol.  It isnt ideally seated which partially accounts for the wavy ladder - but I am very tempted to replace with a brass alternative anyway. The water column needs the tie chain fitting, and it also shows up the under scale RTP water tower (there isnt much 'head' available for the bottom half of the tank...).

 

Telegraph poles are in.

[LMS29]

Pete,

 

Good to see that you are still making progress.  My work on Ilkley Station continues, if a little under reported.  I have decided to run the station on two timescales 1955/6 and 1945/6 and am in the process of researching and creating a summer timetable for late LMS period.

 

I have also been building some more rolling stock.  The MOS ammonia tankers are to help recreate the photograph with the WD loco and an MOS tankers approaching the bridge over Brook Street.

 

 

 

I have also been building some Open Third and Corridor Third coaches to use on the Summertime, Saturday only Blackpool to Sunderland / Saltburn holiday specials.

 

 

 

I realise that there is still work to do to complete the build and then to weather but I thought they would at least give an idea of the things I have been doing.  

 

Tom

 

 

 

 

 

[Gordon A]

You could chop the base of the water off and build a taller replacement.

 

Gordon A

(Angle grinder at the ready)

[Jub45565]

I seem to have missed those 2 posts - presumably with the forum downtime etc.  Looking good Tom, have you used Dave Frank's method for the tanks (Plastruct tube and end caps, as covered on his Wharfeside layout topic) or followed a different route? They would generally have runner wagons between the loco and tanks too, though I have seen a couple of photos without.

 

The Satburn - Blackpool trains used NE stock - from the photos I've seen a mixture of Thompson and Gresleys, and NE locos as far as Colne (B16s, B1s and occasionally K1s).  There were plenty of other specials with LMS stock though.

 

Yes Gordon... though that comes down to how accurate the dimensions of the tank are - there are several sources for (from memory) etched, resin and 3D printed tank panels so if going to the trouble of the bottom I might as well do the top!  This one will have to do for now, the question is whether I build a bit of a platform to raise it a bit.

[LMS29]

Pete,

 

I have just reread my my last post and your comments and need to offer some explanation/corrections.

 

The photo of the WD with MOS tankers I have has tankers coupled to the loco with no barrier wagons.  The loco is heading towards Skipton so it is possible that the wagons were know to be empty.

 

The third opens and corridor thirds were for the Leeds to Glasgow train that I am building as an example of trains rerouted up Wharfedale not the Blackpool to Saltburn Saturdays only , my typo. I am aware that the latter train had Gresley coaches, the photo I have shows a teak Gresley as the first coach. I am still working on the makeup of this train.   If you have any more info on the composition I would welcome it.  As an aside the 1946 timetable show it going to Sunderland rather than Saltburn.

 

As a heads up, Bill (FWSmith) has written another book, this time about his experience as a signalman.  I will let you know more after my next trip to Ilkley.

 

The MOS tankers are made from an AIRFIX tank which was shortened, from memory, the lower part of the wagon is based on a Parkside Dundas kit and the rest of the wagon was made from plastic strip and rod from the spares box.  I have used the plastic tube method on the ICI chlorine tankers I made for use on Shap Summit layout.

 

Currently working on customising wagons and locos for use in the 1946 schedule.

 

Tom

[Jub45565]

Hi Tom,

 

Yes, I'm not sure what the rules were to be honest - presumably even empties would have traces remaining, but I guess the general reasoning was overall heat causing expansion which would be less problematic with small remnants?

 

Yes that makes sense. There are 1958 carriage working in the BRCoachingStock yahoo group (Yahoo groups may generally be very much 20th Century, but there is a wealth of info in this one definitely worth being a member of.  In the files of that group is a Carriage_Workings_Google-Drive_BRCS_01-01-19.pdf which includes these 1958 NE working workings.

 

That has it listed as SO Saltburn/West Hartlepool to Blackpool Central.  The Working is BCK (2-2), 2SK(8), 4SK(8), BCK (2-2), SK(8),BCK(2-2). (sections for Saltburn and West Hartlepool, and a section dividing for Southport - but all 10 coaching in the rake through Ilkley.

 

From this the BCK 2-2's (ie 2 3rd compartments, 2 1st compartments) must be Gresleys (the right diagrams are done by MJT) as the Thompsons had 3 thirds.   The 8 compartment 3rds could be a mixture.  However this is a single snapshot - there is a photo of it passing through Ilkley in 1955 and this had a Thompson brake at the front.  I've seen 1958/9 rakes (photographed at Embsay) with a Gresley brake leading.

 

At a glance in the list mentioned about I havent seen any for earlier years, but the NER as a region didn't exist at that point so I could be looking in the wrong parts of the list...

[LMS29]

Pete,

 

Thanks for your response.  It will take a while to follow this through and work out what is possible. At the moment I only have two Gresley coaches in Crimson and Cream so plenty of building ahead, if indeed they need to be C &C.

 

Tom

[Jub45565]

Hi Tom,

 

Yes, I'm not particularly well versed in NE stock, and the formation does seem to have changed pretty much every year (or possibly more regularly than that...).  There are several photos on the old Embsay site, most of which is still accessible though the Ilkley links they seem to have broken.

 

This one is in 1955 and is the best overall train view (as opposed to focussing on the loco - but there are 2 around Embsay on that front with Gresley brakes leading), with the front two being Thompsons and then presumably all Gresleys with a mixture of underframe types. I presume the penultimate two coaches are still in LNER teak or wartime brown - if the date is correct it is too early for maroon, and they shouldnt be in all over crimson.

 

 

edited to say that that is supposed to be a link to the photo on the embsay site, rather than actually bringing the photo in...!

Edited February 26, 2019 by Jub45565

[LMS29]

Pete,

 

I visited the bookshop on the Grove and purchased a copy of FW (Bill) Smith's new book, Railways in Wharfedale.  The book is only available at the Bookshop on the Grove but at £12.95 is well worth considering for your library.

 

Tom

[Kiwirail]

Hi Tom

 

Is that recent Bill Smith book any good?  I'll have to see if they'll post out to NZ but if it is a good read I'll suck up the no doubt ridiculous postage cost.....

 

Cheers

Andrew