Ilkley locomotive shed, 4mm P4 1950s

[Jub45565]

Tom,

 

Sounds good, thanks for the update. Did you have time for a browse?

 

Cheers,

[LMS29]

Tom,

 

Sounds good, thanks for the update. Did you have time for a browse?

 

Cheers,

 

I had a quick browse.  There were a good number of photographs but did not really have time to take it in.  I was selling raffle tickets at the time.  Tom

[LMS29]

Ron,

 

A couple of weekends ago, I attended a lecture on the 151 years of history of Ilkley station.  The talk was excellent and covered both the station buildings and the ancillary areas.  One photograph that was shown was of Railway Terrace, photo attached.  This highlighted to me that I needed to replace the original cottages I had placed in this location on my layout with a more accurate model.  The speaker posed a question about the design of the building and a careful look at the building left me with a couple of others, so I wonder if you can help, please?

 

How were the cottages laid out inside and which was the 'front and the back' of the building?

 

Looking at the photo, the two end cottages seem to be of a different design, was there a real difference or is this just because they were at the end?

 

The plan I have seen of the station area, depicts the cottages with small buildings to the south, alongside Springs Lane. Were they part of the property and did they contain the obvious?  My earliest memories were of an outside toilet and a coal shed at the bottom of the yard where we lived in Ash Grove, would it be the same here?

 

Hope you can help,

 

Tom

 

 

Edited October 26, 2016 by LMS29

[Guest CLARENCE]

Hi again, folks,

I suspect my little brother can answer your questions at least as well as I can, LS29, but here goes! The "front" of the houses was as shown in your photo, facing the railway, with the kitchens facing the communal yard at the back alongside (actually about 10ft below) Springs Lane. I'll see if I can draw a plan of the interior from memory. Across the yard was a wash house with coal-fired copper for washing day (Monday, everything tasted of soap!), coal 'ole and outside loo for each house (incidentally, we never called them cottages, always houses). There was a flight of steps leading up to Springs Lane between every two outhouse blocks. As I remember the end houses were slightly bigger, you can see the double windows on the ground floor. The outhouses for the right hand end seen on your photo were alongside the end wall, while at the other end the layout was like all the others. The house numbers were 1 to 8 to begin with, then changed to odd numbers later.

I did find online  an estate agents offer for No.3 a couple of years ago tho' it didn't bear much resemblance to my memories! Any further info you need? If you're interested I can certainly come up with an interior plan as it was in the 40's and 50's.

Cheers, David

Edited October 26, 2016 by CLARENCE

[Guest CLARENCE]

Further thoughts;   The outhouses as shown your plan aren't as they were in the 1950's. Have a look at them on Google Earth, that's as they were then.

Cheers, David

[LMS29]

David,

 

Thanks for the description and your extra info.  I will indeed look on Google earth and go and look again when I am next in Ilkley. Then I am ready to start the modelling again.

 

Tom

[Guest CLARENCE]

You're welcome! You might also look at recent sales info on estate agents websites (e.g. rightmove) for exterior pics which could be useful.

David

[Kiwirail]

Tom

 

I don't suppose you have a contact for the guy who gave the talk?  Presumably he'd be a good source for new photos for this thread?

 

I think the plan I've posted pieces of here previously and sent to a few of the chaps dates from around 1900, so it wouldn't surprise me if the outhouses at the Springs Lane cottages had changed by the 1950s.

 

Cheers

Andrew

[LMS29]

Tom

 

I don't suppose you have a contact for the guy who gave the talk?  Presumably he'd be a good source for new photos for this thread?

 

I think the plan I've posted pieces of here previously and sent to a few of the chaps dates from around 1900, so it wouldn't surprise me if the outhouses at the Springs Lane cottages had changed by the 1950s.

 

Cheers

Andrew

 

Andrew

 

I have passed on the link to our thread and will follow up next time I correspond.

 

Tom

[Ronchatt]

Gday Folks

                I've been meaning to write this for the last 4 days but every time I start I get a memory overload  

               and have to give it away , sorry about that

               First,  Thank You Tom , for posting that photo .It is magic,  yours is o/k our kid, but that is magic

               Andrew, I think is right , the original privies probably went the same time as the foot bridge end,

              to widen Springs Lane . In the 40s 50s the toilets were water closets and no sign of being anything  

              else, I cant see the Midland Railway  putting that in when they built them in the 1880s. The coal

              bunker was behind the toilet with the wash house next door. The house was as David says 2 rooms

             down stairs 3 up The lean too at the back was a scullery and porch the front just a porch The only

             features in the gardens was a shed at the bottom of our garden the 4th or no 7 and a large  cherry

             tree at the bottom of no 3. If you wanted to  model the houses in November in the 50s ?. There

             would have been a very large bonfire  built on that area between the gardens and  the first track

             All the local kids would collect firewood from as far away as Crossbeck Rd for bonfire night ,we

             always had the biggest fire in the district . I had better post this before I lose it all again if you want

            more just ask                                       

                                                             Later Ron

[LMS29]

Ron,

 

Thanks for all the details.  I am well on my way now to modelling the Railway Cottages.  I am a bit short of room lengthwise so have had to reduce to 4 instead of the eight cottages but the photos I have and the details provided by folks should make it more representative than the original Scalescenes model I had constructed.  It is interesting to look on the Google maps and see the back wall along Springs Lane with the 'bricked' up coal 'oles where the coal was loaded into the bunker.  I will post a few photos when I get the building in position.

 

Tom

[ilkleyite]

Hi, If people are still trying to find out as to why the footbridge at Springs Lane end changes colour i.e. a different shade of grey, it has nothing to do with the steps been changed from going out straight onto Springs Lane and then moving to a right angle. it's all to do with the filming of the old Kerching saver strip advert for TV back in the early 80's, it was filmed around 1983/84 possible 85 not too sure of exact year, i know that as the picture shows steps going down what was then Hillards Supermarket carpark and that was built in 1983. For filming it was painted in very bright colours, i.e. Red,Green,Yellow etc. and soon after filming it was painted back to it's original colour GREY hence a different shade of grey. That's the only reason as to why the bridge changes a different shade of grey.

 

Bryan.

[Kiwirail]

Bryan

 

Well - so much for all of our collective wisdom and informed ignorance!  Who'd have thought it?  Next time there's a curious detail that seeks an interesting and unusual explanation, I'll just blame it on a TV production!

 

Thanks very much for that little snippet.  My layout will be set in late 1970s/ early 1980s, so I shall make sure that the footbridge is suitably grubby and uniformly grey throughout.

 

Cheers

Andrew

[Ronchatt]

Hey. Andrew that would make a good model. Red Yellow and Green bridge with a film crew there.

Thanks Brian, that kills a lot of theories.

Andrew, are You alright after that latest quake ??

I am working on a tank train in one scale, tanks,  open wagons and guards van at available ,

getting a live steam loco is still a problem , would an 8F or a  black 5 do ??

Thoughts please

                                                      Later Ron.     

[Jub45565]

Hi All,

 

Still no progress of my own to report, but keep the interesting info coming - they are keeping in mind that I need to crack on, and I did dig out the turntable last night to remind myself where I was up to with it!

 

For the tank trains it was generally NE motive power - B16s, J39s or WDs.  These were sometimes assisted by 8Fs though between Skipton and Burley if I remember (reading) correctly.

[LMS29]

Hey. Andrew that would make a good model. Red Yellow and Green bridge with a film crew there.

Thanks Brian, that kills a lot of theories.

Andrew, are You alright after that latest quake ??

I am working on a tank train in one scale, tanks,  open wagons and guards van at available ,

getting a live steam loco is still a problem , would an 8F or a  black 5 do ??

Thoughts please

                                                      Later Ron.     

 

Ron,

 

Any chance of a few photographs, your project sounds really good.  I have had a look through my photographs and can only find J39 and WDs on shot.  They did try with B1's before replacing them with B16's.  I will keep looking and see if I can find any other 'main' steam based motive power mentioned.  As for the wagons they can be anything from high sided coke wagons to single plank and I have even seen cattle wagons used as barrier wagons so that should give you plenty of choice and lots of scope for some modelling.

 

On another topic, I am planning to go to Warley in a couple of weeks time as part of the team running a layout called Grantham, if any one of the UK followers happen to be attending, please come and introduce yourselves.

 

Tom

Edited November 14, 2016 by LMS29

[LMS29]

Hi Folks,

 

I have been working on the Railway Cottages and have managed to complete and install a model despite my restricted space. Ron, this is more accurate and looks better than my earlier version.

 

 

 

 

My next task is to have a go at the coal drops. If anyone has any photographs I might not have seen, I would welcome your input.  The one area I have no information on is the nature of the track and the walk way section at track level.  Luckily there is enough of the drops remaining to get a good idea about the lower parts.

 

Tom

 

[Ronchatt]

G'Day All,

Tom, I do believe you could not have done better, as you say with the restricted space it says it all.

When I say I am working on a tank train I mean if I can raise the cash, it will be July, Aug next before

I can do anything. things keep getting in the way ,like power bills and house repairs, but it is some thing

to work towards. lets call it my pipe dream.

As for the coal drops, all my books on Ilkley history show nothing. As I recall, large timber beams laid

across the stone piers, not too large as locos were not allowed on there, timber walkway on the road side

Wrought iron post and rail railings on the outside. Sorry mate that's the best I can do.

Later Ron.

[LMS29]

G'Day All,

Tom, I do believe you could not have done better, as you say with the restricted space it says it all.

When I say I am working on a tank train I mean if I can raise the cash, it will be July, Aug next before

I can do anything. things keep getting in the way ,like power bills and house repairs, but it is some thing

to work towards. lets call it my pipe dream.

As for the coal drops, all my books on Ilkley history show nothing. As I recall, large timber beams laid

across the stone piers, not too large as locos were not allowed on there, timber walkway on the road side

Wrought iron post and rail railings on the outside. Sorry mate that's the best I can do.

Later Ron.

 

Ron,

 

Thanks for your thoughts, your memory is much better than mine.  I have one picture taken from the station side which shows coal wagons on the drops but you cannot see any detail beyond that.  It certainly looks as though the wagons were very close to the fence at the back of the drops, so that fits with an access walkway on the Railway Road side.

 

I had a good look at the remains of the coal drops last time I was in Ilkley. Looking at the photograph I took at the time, there seems to be enough room at the front for a walk way.  When I am down in Ilkley I will have another look at the top stones to see if there are any obvious anchor points. 

 

My other question relates to how many drops actually existed.  The drawing Andrew produced some time back suggests seven drops and that again is the best I have at the moment. 

 

I will keep looking for other photographs,

 

Tom

[LMS29]

Ron,

 

I have been down to Ilkley today and I have to say that your memory was spot on. 

 

The first photograph shows the back of the concrete buffer stop and there is clearly a 3' ledge on the Railway Road side of the rails, which no doubt supported the walk way.

 

The second photo shows what I think was one of the top stones from the third or fourth pillar and it shows an angle iron sunk into the stone which could well have been the upright to a simple fence. There were similar angle irons in other top stones on the lowered plinths.

 

 

 

The one thing I did not find was an obvious way to get from the rail level down to the ground. There was the odd hole in the end wall which may have supported a ladder.

 

Tom

Edited November 23, 2016 by LMS29

[LMS29]

Hey. Andrew that would make a good model. Red Yellow and Green bridge with a film crew there.

Thanks Brian, that kills a lot of theories.

Andrew, are You alright after that latest quake ??

I am working on a tank train in one scale, tanks,  open wagons and guards van at available ,

getting a live steam loco is still a problem , would an 8F or a  black 5 do ??

Thoughts please

                                                      Later Ron.     

 

Ron,

 

I was looking through Martin Bairstow's book Railways through Airedale and Wharfedale and found an interesting picture on page 19. It showed what the author believed was a Heysham to Haverton Hill Ammonia tank train pulled by 8F 48652 which had been diverted down the Skipton/Steeton line through Airedale rather than Wharfedale.

 

If you need any more, drop me a line,

 

Tom 

[Ronchatt]

Thanks for that info Tom. I Think I have that book somewhere in my library

[for library read pile of books in back room ] as for access to the coal drops.

don't remember a ladder there in the 50s. I think it would have been long gone by

then, every kid in the area would have felt the need to climb it .

Later Ron.

[LMS29]

Thanks for that info Tom. I Think I have that book somewhere in my library

[for library read pile of books in back room ] as for access to the coal drops.

don't remember a ladder there in the 50s. I think it would have been long gone by

then, every kid in the area would have felt the need to climb it .

Later Ron.

 

Ron,

 

I do not remember a ladder either in the late 1950's.  We used to go to Thornber's (the shop opposite) for our sweets  but I was struggling to think how the coal lorry drivers would get up onto the staging safely and drop the coal but perhaps that is my 'modern' H&S training clicking in.

 

Cheers, Tom

Edited November 28, 2016 by LMS29

[Ronchatt]

G,day all

Tom. Found the book, found the photo, so it has happened.

The project may go ahead yet. Anyone any idea of the cause

of the deviation, the date doesn't ring any bells ??.

Later Ron.

[Kiwirail]

Hi All

 

Been off topic for a week or so following our little earthquake.  Being a geotechnical engineer, I tend to get pretty busy when the earth moves.

 

I have some photos of the coal drops c. 1983, before they were butchered for the car park entrance.  I will try and dig something out and post it when I get a minute.

 

Cheers

Andrew