Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[mikemeg]

That's absolutely gorgeous! I've got my name on the list for one of these when they become available, and my appetite is now well and truly whet! Of course I do still need to decide which loco I'm building it as, which means several trawls through Yeadon!

 

Cheers

 

J

 

Well thank you for the kind words. I know Arthur is workng towards the imminent release of this kit, as well as the two variants of the J72.

 

His kits really do capture the essence of the prototypes which they represent and this one is no exception.  And this kit is an ideal entry point for anyone wanting to start etched loco kit building.

 

It has been and continues to be a real privilege to test build these and to be a small part - the real credit belongs to Arthur - of the development of what has become a very extensive range of kits.

 

Arthur really has put the locos of the old North Eastern well and truly on the modelling map!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited July 5, 2017 by mikemeg

[davefrk]

Hi Mike, yes the HL J72 chassis is a cracker, I still have a pre-production one to build sometime as the first one I test built for Chris was fine and is now on the HL stand so the second one wasn't needed. Beautiful runner, slow and steady and.... everything fitted.

 

Your B16, I really must re-open the B16 box as your build has got me interested again, too many distractions and other things going on.

 

All the best,

Dave Franks.

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER N10

 

Given that my models are all set in mid-1950, a time when the railways were really very run down, then I do tire of finishing locos in a very weather worn state. So occasionally I finish one in a more pristine state, with the light reflecting off the newly applied satin black of the works painters.

 

Anyway, N10 No 69104 returns from Darlington sporting a new coat of black with its number and totem sparkling clean.

 

Another of Arthur's kits; another test build. And this one needs a smokebox number plate. which it will now get!!

 

Oh I like this daylight lamp!! And oh I love these old North Eastern locos!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 13, 2018 by mikemeg

[iak]

Mmmmmm, tasty beastie...

The temptation for a J72 keep niggling mind, especially since some wondered north of the border.

Edited July 5, 2017 by iak

[mikemeg]

Hi Mike, yes the HL J72 chassis is a cracker, I still have a pre-production one to build sometime as the first one I test built for Chris was fine and is now on the HL stand so the second one wasn't needed. Beautiful runner, slow and steady and.... everything fitted.

 

Your B16, I really must re-open the B16 box as your build has got me interested again, too many distractions and other things going on.

 

All the best,

Dave Franks.

 

Dave,

 

Many thanks for the posting.

 

Arthur's J72 kits are the full loco - body and chassis - and they really do build into lovely representations of the two principal versions, and then the various batches of the J72 NER, LNER and BR.

 

The B16/1 was, itself, a bit of a diversion for me and though challenging, has been hugely enjoyable and rewarding to do.

 

More photos of the two 'new build' J72's shortly.

 

Once again, many thanks for the posting.

 

Regards

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

Just as another aside, though a North Eastern aside, here's a photo of the largest locomotive which the North Eastern ever built; the Raven Pacific.

 

I might soon make another exception to my 'only extant in 1950' rule and scratch build one of these - wasn't one somewhat mysteriously discovered (and preserved) languishing at the very back of a closed and boarded up ex NER straight shed, some time in 1948?

 

If only!!!!

 

Or perhaps one or two of us should sit down, in a pub somewhere and, over a few drinks, bemoan the fact that one of these was never ............. After all, there only ever were six LNER P2's, so five of these ...........

 

And the photo? Courtesy my old mate Mick Nicholson.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited July 5, 2017 by mikemeg

[micklner]

Snap !!

 

 

Hope the chassis looks better than the DJH effort !!

 

Edited July 5, 2017 by micklner

[Compound2632]

That looks significantly longer than a Gresley pacific - is it? Also I assume the apparent inverse taper boiler is an optical illusion!

[mikemeg]

Snap !!

 

 

Hope the chassis looks better than the DJH effort !!

 

IMG_1500.JPG

 

Mick,

 

That does look very splendid indeed. I'd love to see that model photographed from ground level just to really appreciate how massive these things were.

 

Here's another photo of 2403 entering York Station. This picture taken before it received its Gresley 8-wheel tender. Again, the photo courtesy Mick Nicholson whose photo collection is quite amazing!

 

Regards

 

Mike

Edited July 6, 2017 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

That looks significantly longer than a Gresley pacific - is it? Also I assume the apparent inverse taper boiler is an optical illusion!

 

Stephen,

 

One of these locomotives No 2404, was actually fitted with a Gresley A1 boiler in 1929. The firebox, on this boiler, had to be extended to fit the loco, which was longer than a Gresley A1. The overall length was also increased in 1934 when all five members of the class received Gresley 8 wheel tenders.

 

As the original wheelbase of these locos was over 62 feet, then there can't have been many (any?) NER turntables capable of accommodating them.

 

The inverse taper is, I think, an optical illusion, as the boilers on these locos were parallel.

 

A mid-1930's plan to fit all five of these locos with modified A3 boilers did not come to fruition and they were withdrawn in 1936 and 37. As the last three of these locos were actually built by the LNER, No 2402, which was the first one to be wthdrawn, became the first loco built by the LNER to be withdrawn.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited July 6, 2017 by mikemeg

[Horsetan]

.....The inverse taper is, I think, an optical illusion, as the boilers on these locos were parallel.....

It's caused by the back edge of your desk.

[micklner]

62 feet plus!!  They weren't nicknamed Bowling Alleys for any other reason !!.

[jwealleans]

I have built one of Arthur's 4125 gallon tenders to run with mine on Grantham - I just need to get round to repainting the loco to match the finish on the tender. I prefer the look of them with the smaller tender.

Edited July 6, 2017 by jwealleans

[Compound2632]

Stephen,

 

One of these locomotives No 2404, was actually fitted with a Gresley A1 boiler in 1929. The firebox, on this boiler, had to be extended to fit the loco, which was longer than a Gresley A1. The overall length was also increased in 1934 when all five members of the class received Gresley 8 wheel tenders.

 

As the original wheelbase of these locos was over 62 feet, then there can't have been many (any?) NER turntables capable of accommodating them.

 

The inverse taper is, I think, an optical illusion, as the boilers on these locos were parallel.

 

A mid-1930's plan to fit all five of these locos with modified A3 boilers did not come to fruition and they were withdrawn in 1936 and 37. As the last three of these locos were actually built by the LNER, No 2402, which was the first one to be wthdrawn, was the first loco built by the LNER to be withdrawn.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

I have the Ken Hoole Illustrated History which gives a couple of pages of photos of 2400 and 2401 but not so much as a weight diagram - and also no hint of the three LNER-built engines of which I was therefore unaware. I looked up the first Gresley pacifics - 16" shorter overall wheelbase but that includes the 8-wheel tender. Even so, the difference in engine wheelbase (i.e. w/ tender) is about the same: Raven: 37'2" ; Gresley: 35'9". Same grate area too. Yet the Raven engines look so enormous. I think the inverse taper illusion is also due to one being conditioned to seeing a taper boiler on such a large engine.

 

Humungous.

[mikemeg]

As a final (at least from me) contribution to the discussion on the Raven Pacifics, apparently the design of these locomotives owed much to the Atlantics which became LNER Class C7, with which they shared some design features. That said, the boiler was larger, the cylinders were larger and the firebox and grate area were larger on the Pacifics.

 

The LNER Encyclopedia Website description does allude to this design being rushed through, in order to preempt the absorbtion of the NER into the LNER with only two locomotives being built prior to that absorbtion, after which the newly constituted LNER built a further three.

 

From the outset, these locomotives were restricted on route availability and were quite quickly displaced from the prestige ECML workings, finishing their days at York on secondary passenger and freight workings. Certainly there is photographic evidence of at least one of these working out of Hull on a Yorkbound freight, though I can't find the picture.

 

Cheers

 

MIke

Edited July 6, 2017 by mikemeg

[Pebbles]

It was the smokebox that was extended when the Gresley boiler was fitted if anything the Gresley firebox was shorter.  With regard to the original boiler it was significantly shorter than it appeared as there was both a combustion chamber at the firebox end and the tubes were recessed at the front. Whilst it is often quoted that the design owed much to the C7 Atlantic the A2 was a generation further on. For example its front end was possibly closer to the B16/1 than the C7; whilst I have not checked I suspect that the lengths of the B16 and A2 con rods were the same. It would appear from the weight diagrams on page 140 of Volume 3 "North Eastern Record" that there was an aim to move to some commonality, but only two of these proposals saw the light of day.  

[jrg1]

2404 was provided with a Gresley boiler that had an extended smokebox to fit on the Raven chassis.  This was done to provide a spare boiler for the class.  The Raven engines were inferior to the Gresley Pacifics, especially in front end design,  and were withdrawn relatively quickly as their boilers needed renewal.  2404's boiler was reconditioned, and returned to the A1 pool.

With an LNER tender, the total length of the unrebuilt engines was 75'101/4"-the nearest to that were the Princesses at 74"41/4", easily the longest non-articulated locomotive and tender to run in the UK.

I have a DJH kit, plus SE Finecast A1 boiler and fittings, and 2404 is slowly taking shape.  Apart from the frames, I may as well have scratched the locomotive, as the ghastly footplate castings are being replaced by brass and NS.   

[Daddyman]

I may as well have scratched the locomotive, as the ghastly footplate castings are being replaced by brass and NS.   

A brave - and sensible - man. It's the valances that keep putting me off scratchbuilding an Atlantic. My dad keeps dropping hints he wants a C9, but it seems to me the best way is to etch the cab sides (to get the window beading) and the valances (I hate fret saws). It strikes me that there's a market for some enterprising person who would do an etched sheet of NER/LNER valances and cab sides (I want a K4 and J38 at least, and, yes, a C9 if my dad insists) but as no one seems to be stepping forwards, it looks like I'll be spending September teaching myself CAD. 

[jrg1]

A brave - and sensible - man. It's the valances that keep putting me off scratchbuilding an Atlantic. My dad keeps dropping hints he wants a C9, but it seems to me the best way is to etch the cab sides (to get the window beading) and the valances (I hate fret saws). It strikes me that there's a market for some enterprising person who would do an etched sheet of NER/LNER valances and cab sides (I want a K4 and J38 at least, and, yes, a C9 if my dad insists) but as no one seems to be stepping forwards, it looks like I'll be spending September teaching myself CAD. 

I had the cab sides etched-the cast ones were very ordinary.  The DJH tender is showing it's age, and will need some work to bring it up to scratch.  I machined off the boiler smokebox, and soldered a brass turning in place, as a foundation for an NS wrapper.  There won't be much of the original left.

[Class O]

I have the Ken Hoole Illustrated History which gives a couple of pages of photos of 2400 and 2401 but not so much as a weight diagram - and also no hint of the three LNER-built engines of which I was therefore unaware. I looked up the first Gresley pacifics - 16" shorter overall wheelbase but that includes the 8-wheel tender. Even so, the difference in engine wheelbase (i.e. w/ tender) is about the same: Raven: 37'2" ; Gresley: 35'9". Same grate area too. Yet the Raven engines look so enormous. I think the inverse taper illusion is also due to one being conditioned to seeing a taper boiler on such a large engine.

 

Humungous.

Often heard it said (by railwaymen) that a Raven boiler on a Gresley chassis would have been better

[Compound2632]

Often heard it said (by railwaymen) that a Raven boiler on a Gresley chassis would have been better

 

Well, the LNER Encyclopedia website does say that the Raven boiler did a better job of maintaining full pressure than the Gresley boiler when the pacifics were compared in 1923. But the first Gresley pacifics weren't perfect in the valve gear department either.

[mikemeg]

A brave - and sensible - man. It's the valances that keep putting me off scratchbuilding an Atlantic. My dad keeps dropping hints he wants a C9, but it seems to me the best way is to etch the cab sides (to get the window beading) and the valances (I hate fret saws). It strikes me that there's a market for some enterprising person who would do an etched sheet of NER/LNER valances and cab sides (I want a K4 and J38 at least, and, yes, a C9 if my dad insists) but as no one seems to be stepping forwards, it looks like I'll be spending September teaching myself CAD. 

 

Tell  you what, if you're going to learn CAD, then I would be tempted to join you. 

 

I spent my entire working life in the Information Technology arena, initially as a Computer Programmer (1971 - 1976) and then working up to IT Manager and IT Contracts Director, yet I never did get to grips with the then burgeoning area of Computer Aided Design. I even have a copy of Autocad on my system yet have never used it.

 

Sounds like a very good idea!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Horsetan]

Tell you what, if you're going to learn CAD, then I would be tempted to join you.

 

Make that three.

[Daddyman]

Mike Edge assures me it's possible to just teach yourself, the way we've probably all taught ourselves Word.
I suppose we could have some sort of google hangout to compare notes?

 

 

EDIT: I've checked and I downloaded QCAD (free) as it was recommended here

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83466-etchers-uk-that-are-able-to-work-with-turbocad-tcw-files/

 

as perfectly adequate for modellers. However, I'm happy to get a different programme so that the three of us have the same thing, if other programmes are more user-friendly. 

Edited July 8, 2017 by Daddyman

[mikemeg]

I've been trying to locate and source some of the HMRS 4 mm transfer sheets, in particular the sheet covering BR Steam Era Loco and Coach Numbers and Insignia.

 

Does anyone know whether the HMRS still offer this range of Pressfix 4 mm transfers or where other sources of this sheet and the 4 mm LNWR/BR Mixed Traffic Loco Lining sheet may be found?

 

Looking on one model railway supplier directory site seemed to suggest that the HMRS, itself, was out of stock of some of this range of products.

 

Alternatively some readers/contributors may know of an alternative product offering the British railways 1948 - 1968 numbers, lettering and the various sizes of the lion and wheel emblem.

 

Any information gratefully received.

 

Cheers

 

Mike