Kitmaster -is this possible, or just a daft idea?

[Pebbles]

Malcolm Stelfox, when he had his workshop in Ber Street Norwich, did a Stirling Single kit modelled on one of the later batches. The Late Dick Tarpy wrote an overview many years ago in an issue of "Great Northern News". Malcolm also produced small batch runs of J17 and N7 kits.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Everyone is free to choose what they feel something is worth.  If I don't like the price I won't buy simple as that, if someone wants to pay more then that is their prerogative.

[chris p bacon]

Everyone is free to choose what they feel something is worth.  If I don't like the price I won't buy simple as that, if someone wants to pay more then that is their prerogative.

You are correct,  

 

but

when things are left on the shelf and the greedy seller/shopkeeper ups the price even though he bought it in at the lower one. 

 

 

 

Why label those who charge more than you wish to pay as "Greedy" 

 

Profit is not a dirty word, you must learn to love it.

[Il Grifone]

Many thanks for the comments folks.

I was also thinking what the reaction would be if other Kitmasters were made available once again: The Duchess (it would be an ideal candidate for kitbashing into those Stanier 'neverwazza' 4-6-4s and 4-8-4s?), the NYC Hudson, The Swiss Crocodile, and of course, the LNER Beyer-Garratt?

From memory, the late Frank Dyer of Borchester fame reckoned that Kitmster coaches were the best ever....

 

Best wishes,

David.

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

The Kitmaster Duchess is actually a Duchess but has the name/number of an ex-streamliner (minor point and easily remedied). Revell do/did a NYC Hudson (also rebadged in SP livery) though the motion is fixed GBL style. The Crocodile is limited in usefulness by being 4mm scale* and the Kitmaster Garratt (a huge beast!) is the LMS design.

 

* The earlier models of foreign prototypes were all to 4mm scale, though the last ones were 3.5mm (German and French coaches and the Hudson - possibly others). I would have liked the Italian 835 class 0-6-0T in Rivarossi 3.8mm scale rather than 4mm though. IIRC she has her buffers too close together, suggesting that Kitmaster did a bit of copying, since Rivarossi set their buffers to the H0 spacing for some unknown reason.

 

Scanning the parts would make 'correcting' the scale fairly easy, I would have thought, though the result would end up narrow gauge. This is not beyond correction of course - either a new chassis or I regauged a City of Truro to EM by assembling the driving wheels at 180° to the intended manner.

 

http://www.kitmaster.org.uk/Duchess.htm

Edited July 19, 2016 by Il Grifone

[hayfield]

You are correct,  

 

but

 

 

Why label those who charge more than you wish to pay as "Greedy" 

 

Profit is not a dirty word, you must learn to love it.

 

 

Quite often things like Jackson parts, which when bought cost 10 or 20p are sold for up to a couple of pounds now, still less than they are new from Markits. As said its what it is worth to the buyer. That's why some of the harder to buy items are often traded on sites like eBay above cost price

 

Nothing wrong with someone willing to pay a premium for ease of purchase

[robmcg]

I just happened upon this thread and am pleased to say that old Kitmaster models are fun, even if not of the standards of today's 00 models.

 

I built and painted several in the 1960-2 era when I was 10-12yrs old. They had better detail, or at least equivalent to Hornby Dublo. Now am 68yrs and for one reason or another have limitations in dexterity and skill which were not issues when I was 12.

 

When I was 12yrs my income was rarely over 1/6d per week, thus even a basic model at 8/6d or 12/6d was a major investment, if the same measure was used today they would be hundreds or thousands of pounds, so an unmade Garratt at £80 is reasonable in my view.

 

I happen to like the plain black plastic look of these models, and might succeed in assembling one or two to the standard I reached in 1966 with Airfix 9Fs...   then I can photograph them and/or add Hornby or other RTR detail pack parts to suit. 

 

Fun, and a challenge (for me).

 

cheers 

 

here is a Dapol BoB which wasn't and isn't the quality I recall from Kitmaster or Airfix.  Photo edited in places.

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by robmcg

[robmcg]

People my be interested in this 1961 Kitmaster brochure...

 

I don't think the A3 ever made it to production.

 

 

[sagaguy]

I believe the coach tooling was rusted beyond repair after a leaky roof or window allowed rainwater to settle on them.Shame,they were good coaches.

 

                                 Ray.

[Il Grifone]

AFAIK the NYC Hudson was the last model to see the light of day. This definitely exists. I was looking at an assembled one at a toy fair priced £10, when the stallholder said, "You can have it for £5!" So a fiver changed hands and she came home with me. I was going to pinch the tender for my Rivarossi model of the same thing, but at the moment she has the tender from the Monogram kit. This is allegedly a santa Fe 4-6-4, but these were oil fired not coal I understand. I suspect the ATSF kit was actually the same as the NYC one apart from the decals and the box.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=nyc+hudson+kit&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=g0Glg145uZnAYM%3A%2COsEFmMIvOv3GiM%2C_&usg=AI4_-kRM6GWaKVe3F-RkcQolfE61IfaA5Q&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwir-Zz9pp7gAhV0ShUIHQxeAOEQ9QEwBHoECAIQDA&biw=1304&bih=666#imgrc=g0Glg145uZnAYM:

 

I found this  http://tycotrain.tripod.com/ahmhoscalelocomotives/id139.html   I would have stocked up at those prices!

 

In response to the query in the link. The Kitmaster and Revell/Monogram tooling is not the same. The motion operates in the Kitmaster (as in all their kits), but the wheels revolve (more or less) in the Monogram, but that stops as soon as you fit the motion which is a single moulding

Edited February 3, 2019 by Il Grifone

[Steamport Southport]

The ones from that list which weren't made were the A3, USA Tank and Canadian National U-4-A.

 

There was also going to be a SR Q1.

 

http://www.kitmaster.org.uk/CollectorsClubN.htm

 

 

Jason

[BernardTPM]

The way I read that, the Q1 does not appear to have been a Kitmaster announcement.

[Gibbo675]

10 hours ago, robmcg said:

People my be interested in this 1961 Kitmaster brochure...

 

I don't think the A3 ever made it to production.

 

 

Hi Rob,

 

Are you aware of the book, "Lets Stick A Little Bit More!" ?

 

The book is a history of Kitmaster's rise and demise, and also what subsequently happened with the Airfix purchase through to Dapol current custody of the remaining serviceable moulds.

 

The kit tooling that became damaged was stored on the bottom shelf of a warehouse that was flooded, it became so rusted that it was irretrievably damaged.

 

All of the kits produced and a kits that were planned are described, even box artwork and cost of the tooling required to make a kit. The wagon kits that were developed by Airfix are described too along with a section about the Scalecraft Road-Railer.

 

This is the cheapest on eBay but seem to be quite expensive to what I paid,

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lets-Stick-Together-a-Little-Bit-More-A-Further-Appreciation-of-Vintage-Plasti/143113757810?epid=115622956&hash=item21523ea472:g:ZOoAAOSwpptcVYcH

 

Gibbo.

[sncf231e]

10 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

A I suspect the ATSF kit was actually the same as the NYC one apart from the decals and the box.

 

 

 

Indeed, the Monogram/Revell NYC and ATSF kit are based on the same moulds. I made the black plastic kit and painted it to look like an "expensive" brass model:

 

Then later Monogram released the kit in a "silver" plated version:

 

Regards

Fred

[decauville1126]

2 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

 

This is the cheapest on eBay but seem to be quite expensive to what I paid,

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lets-Stick-Together-a-Little-Bit-More-A-Further-Appreciation-of-Vintage-Plasti/143113757810?epid=115622956&hash=item21523ea472:g:ZOoAAOSwpptcVYcH

 

Gibbo.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lets-Stick-Little-Bit-More/dp/1906919496

[robmcg]

10 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Rob,

 

Are you aware of the book, "Lets Stick A Little Bit More!" ?

 

The book is a history of Kitmaster's rise and demise, and also what subsequently happened with the Airfix purchase through to Dapol current custody of the remaining serviceable moulds.

 

The kit tooling that became damaged was stored on the bottom shelf of a warehouse that was flooded, it became so rusted that it was irretrievably damaged.

 

All of the kits produced and a kits that were planned are described, even box artwork and cost of the tooling required to make a kit. The wagon kits that were developed by Airfix are described too along with a section about the Scalecraft Road-Railer.

 

This is the cheapest on eBay but seem to be quite expensive to what I paid,

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lets-Stick-Together-a-Little-Bit-More-A-Further-Appreciation-of-Vintage-Plasti/143113757810?epid=115622956&hash=item21523ea472:g:ZOoAAOSwpptcVYcH

 

Gibbo.

 

Thank you for that Gibbo, the very thing I was after.  I have now seen the 2012 Irwell edition for UKP17 and a little more and will certainly buy one soon.

 

The early days of plastic kits were of course the same as my day of wide-eyed wonder, when BR was still mostly steam,  how things have changed!

 

Thanks again.

[5050]

On 03/02/2019 at 12:40, decauville1126 said:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lets-Stick-Little-Bit-More/dp/1906919496

I picked my copy up at an exhibition for a lot less than that. From what I remember, the seller had bought a remaindered job lot - but I can't remember who he was.  It might have been at Derby Show? Very interesting book that slays a lot of the Airfix/Kitmaster 'myths'.

[PhilJ W]

IIRC the Italian tank also never went into production.

[Coach bogie]

The Italian tank was produced. I should still have an empty box for somewhere

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Skinnylinny]

Pretty sure it did - I've seen several on eBay over the years. There was even a Perfecta motorising kit!

http://www.kitmaster.org.uk/ItalianTank.htm shows the box art and a completed model, and the instructions can be seen here: http://www.kitmaster.org.uk/Instructions8.htm

[roythebus]

I bought an Italian tank kit in a shop in Bury St.Edmunds in 1967. I never made it and seem to remember selling it at an MRC show at the Horticultural Halls back in the late 1980s. A chap called ADK (Jock) Young at the MRC motorised one in the early 1960s using a Wills P class chassis.

 

The Italian tank was to 4mm scale.

[Johann Marsbar]

Picked up an Italian tank loco kit in a shop in Warrington in 1981/2 for 35p !!!

I remember walking past the shop and glancing in the window, only to see lots of toys (Corgi etc) for sale which I hadn't seen for years. On going into the shop, it seemed that the owner was clearing out a storeroom as the lease was coming to an end. Prices were mostly straight decimal conversions from the £sd ones, so came away with said tank loco, 2 Sterling Singles (60p ea) and a Swiss Crocodile (75p).  Bought several of the old Dinky "Action Kits" at similar low prices as well. He certainly had some KItmaster TT coach kits  which I didn't bother with...........

Managed a few visits there that year before he shut, but as I could only go there when visiting my Grandparents during college holidays (I live 220 miles away), I dread to think what other things might have been unearthed between my visits!

[5050]

21 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

IIRC the Italian tank also never went into production.

It was one of the early ones to appear.  I had a couple and still have a few parts in my 'stash'.  The smokebox of one made its home as the front of a stationary boiler peeping out of a boiler house on 'Enigma Engineering' - fitted with a long chimney made of of Revell tank gun barrels.

Edited February 6, 2019 by 5050

[Il Grifone]

I bought the Italian tank kit (Gr835) when it came out. Unfortunately for sales, it was to 4mm scale and thus incompatible with either Lima or Rivarossi,, though the latter had their own model. IIRC the buffers were to H0 spacing for some strange reason. (Rivarossi's models also suffer from this - I have quite a few to correct....)

 

Apart from the NYC Hudson and the two Continental coaches (SNCF and DB) (and,of course the TT range) all the Kitmaster models were 00. I'm not 100% sure about the 'General', but she seems quite large for H0 IMHO. The model represents her later rebuild and current preserved state.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_General_(locomotive)

 

All that remains of mine is one of the wheelsets from the front bogie ,  so I can't run a ruler over her.

[robmcg]

On 04/02/2019 at 00:03, sncf231e said:

 

Indeed, the Monogram/Revell NYC and ATSF kit are based on the same moulds. I made the black plastic kit and painted it to look like an "expensive" brass model:

 

Then later Monogram released the kit in a "silver" plated version:

 

Regards

Fred

 

Hi Fred, does the Revell 02163 model have the fine wheel profiles and detail as in your photos?  It seems to be a far better model than the Kitmaster version.

 

edit; also do the Revell Monogram and Con-cor snap-together models have working motion, as Kitmaster does?

 

Apologies if I have missed these details before.

Edited February 8, 2019 by robmcg

[robmcg]

Further to my above post, I am very impressed by the standard of the monogram/Revell models shown in Fred's post and wonder if these are based on the Kitmaster moulds or if they are greatly enhanced with more details, scale flanges etc.   Also do the Revell/Monogram kits have anything in common with the Con-cor or Snap-Tite brands of similar H0 Hudsons.

 

I note the Con-cor and/or Snap-Tite US models are advertised as tabletop ornamentation rather than the way Kitmaster were originally conceived,  thus I would interested in whether these latter , which are advertised as requiring no glue, are in fact from the same moulds as the Kitmaster NYC Hudson. Do they have turning wheels and motion for instance?

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who can shed light on this fascinating history.

 

 

I have to say, the Con-cor snp-together models look to me like they might make exceptionally good models,  alas I have not followed anything to do with kitsets since about 1967!  

 

just bought this though....