Hornby Brush Type 2/Class 31 models - differences?

[Pint of Adnams]

What, if any, are the differences between the standard and 'Railroad' versions of the various Brush Type 2/Class 31 models?

 

I note that both current versions are DCC-ready so it cannot be much.

 

And can a 'standard body' be fitted to a 'Railroad' chassis and vice-versa? 

[DavidM]

It's a completely different model The 'full detail' model was freshly developed and tooled, while the Railroad model is the ex-Lima tooling with a chassis with a new motor and DCC capability. Very few, if any, parts are interchangable without a bit of hacking around.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

What, if any, are the differences between the standard and 'Railroad' versions of the various Brush Type 2/Class 31 models?

 The ex-Lima body of the Railroad Brush 2 actually looks more like the prototype than the main range model! Compare the end on appearance with the prototype and see how the Lima body correctly represents the inset narrower upper half of the cab and the distinctive step out to full body width behind the cab doors.

 

The main range model has a very good centre motor drive, much superior to the power bogie for the Railroad model. The body tooling is very well executed and finished, but because it is fundamentally wrong in shape is a good looking nine pound note in my opinion.

 

A DIY blend of more realisitic body on new mechanism is possible.

[SRman]

The ex-Lima RailRoad model also does not have lights of any sort whereas the "full fat" model has lighting (varying according to the era and prototype variations). The RailRoad model has moulded on handrails on the cab ends, while the higher level model has separate wire handrails all round.

Off the top of my head, I can't recall whether the RailRoad model has a cab interior or not - I have a feeling it does not, but I'll check mine later on, when I get a chance. The more expensive model has a fully detailed cab interior.

[JSpencer]

Some of the main models also suffered from Mazak rot. I postponed sound conversion on mine until I know whether or not it is affected (technically from an Ok batch).

 

The bogies look too wide on the main model.

 

The first blue batch of the railroad had the wrong cab for the body (late cab, early body). No idea if this was corrected on later issues.

 

Finally the main range has open roof grills with spinning fan.

[Pint of Adnams]

Thanks both all of you. Hornby's decision to drop the proposed 'skinhead' or 'toffee apple' D5509 from the 2016 programme is the trigger for this question. I note that some dealers are selling Railroad versions at quite low prices and wondered if it was worth taking a chance on obtaining a replacement body (for the loco of course!) as a spare part or on an auction site.

 

What pulling power does the Railroad version have, in terms of Bachmann coaches say?

 

Edit - as it took so long to finish this reply more of you had contributed.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Hattons are selling the blue railroad version for a bargain £42.

 

Mike.

[PM47079]

The lima 31s I still have knocking about have no cab interiors in them.

[JSpencer]

The railroad model is the old Lima model and they could pull a lot. Mainly because of the big steel weight and traction tyres. No idea if the railroad kept that.

 

The good news is the railroad and Lima models are interchangeable in lots of areas.

[Guest 40-something]

The railroad model needs extra weight added as its very light but the motor bogie is very smooth running. Hornby mixed up the cab front and bodyside combinations but a quick bit of modelling will sort that. Older Lima bodies fit straight on to the Hornby railroad chassis, be mindful that the railroad version doesnt have the bufferbeam valances, again some modelling can sort that out

[Hroth]

Hattons are selling the blue railroad version for a bargain £42.

 

Mike.

Hattons are also selling the DCR livery main range 31 for £79.  Ok, its twice as much as the Railroad version, but its more than half the price of the other main range versions!

 

edit:  The other "feature" of the main range 31 is the opening cab doors....

[Derekstuart]

The standard Lima motor would pull a bigger train than most people have space for. I am not familiar with the HRR motors but I understand that they are at least as powerful if not more so.

 

Don't forget that although the real 31 was capable of running as a class 1 express it was not really powerful enough (even after rebuild from 30 to 31) to haul large trains at high speed.

[SRman]

In their earlier days, still with Mirrlees engines fitted (what would have been class 30), there were progressive upgrades in power with certain batches, so they went from the original pilot batch with 1250 hp, to 1365 hp for the main production deliveries, but some were further uprated to 1600 hp, and one even to 2000 hp, so the latter batches were type 3 and type 4, respectively. Then it all fell apart when the engines started developing crank case cracking! It seems the "mazak rot" experienced by some of Hornby's product was really only echoing real life!!

[Derekstuart]

I didn't know about the higher power options on the original 30s, SRMan.

 

I do know that one (possibly more?) 31 was rebuilt as a type 4. My understanding is that the 31 had the same engine as a 37 fitted, but it was down-rated as the electrics were not replaced when the engine was and they could not cope with the full power. But one (or more) did have its electrics replaced- and a much modified cooling system- and became the only type 4 class 31.

[Removed a/c]

Railroad version has no cab interior. 

[SRman]

I didn't know about the higher power options on the original 30s, SRMan.

 

I do know that one (possibly more?) 31 was rebuilt as a type 4. My understanding is that the 31 had the same engine as a 37 fitted, but it was down-rated as the electrics were not replaced when the engine was and they could not cope with the full power. But one (or more) did have its electrics replaced- and a much modified cooling system- and became the only type 4 class 31.

 

For the record, D5545 was uprated to 1600 hp, then D5655 to D5670 were delivered with 1600 hp engines; D5835 had the intercooled 2000 hp engine fitted and had some extra grilles at the radiator non-radiator end and extra cooling arranged.

 

Edited to correct the cooling information (thanks, Royaloak).

[Derekstuart]

SRMan

 

Do you mean that these higher power levels were from the original engines (Mirlees) before the whole class was re-engined with EE?
 

[Classsix T]

Yes they were Derek, the higher rated lumps were also the first to indicate failure which would eventually affect the rest of the Class.

 

And to pick up on your earlier post, the EE lump is the same as Cl.37 but without charge air cooling, I've read, to stay in continuous rating of the Brush electrical gear.

 

You can help me though SRMan, did the uprated Mirrlees lumps require higher rated main generators etc.? If not, why not stick a 12CSVT in there?

 

C6T.

[cheesysmith]

The EE engines fitted into the brush type 2 was set at a BHP of the cooling system. The electrical machines were identical on all the versions, even the 200BHP version.

[Classsix T]

Thank you Mr. Smith, every day is a school day! And all the authors blaming the Brush electrics should have their wrists slapped...

 

Nice Freudian slip on the BHP figure too Cheesy, many cranks would contest the whole lot only ever had 200 horses on tap!

 

C6T.

[royaloak]

 

For the record, D5545 was uprated to 1600 hp, then D5655 to D5670 were delivered with 1600 hp engines; D5835 had the intercooled 2000 hp engine fitted and had some extra grilles at the radiator end and extra cooling arranged.

The one converted to 2000hp had extra grilles at the clean air (non radiator) end, it had 8 grilles on B side and the normal 6 on the A side.

 

Link to show B side with 2 extra grilles at the near end, the 2 extra ones are the bottom ones-

https://www.flickr.com/photos/92367454@N02/10264455553/in/photolist-gD322B-pPxbd5-ffpx4c-kYRZTV-atQfyD-83TtE8-fKqb9P-9RGYNu-9GE1XQ-9Hd1JY-aVDgbt-dMyNgK-rDkAPa-69EAvW-bZPsVN-qjtaTC-2bjq7M-dPc2TP-3Rfgh-o2AHAR-ektLJM-8rg8mu-fkv5kt-mh3HN2-aGtCCn-oAvcjc-aVDg32-oekN8A-oEfZcf-dDP7v4-fCw6Wf-c3rLCs-bZGpK1-89y9Sq-e3wBPv-bqVs9e-84wDFr-iyMSJy-rgdt2T-faKRAx-r7JTJv-dGhHmR-p8Rtk3-dXwFEj-7kwFvA-88Ge9i-dx9HeK-8CFSFQ-dXwDnw-dDWkZm

 

Not my pic.

[Pint of Adnams]

Thanks to all those who made contributions relevant to my OP - those posting about alternative power units are only of any use if respective detail changes were applied to the various Hornby body mouldings but that information is not provided.

 

As I couldn't track down a suitable body, I've bought (through that well-known auction site) a mint-boxed Lima D5500 ('skinhead') in green with green ends - probably for a third of the price of the dropped Hornby model. That'll do for now.

[John Tomlinson]

You'll probably find that the power unit on your new purchase will benefit from a service in view of its age. Even if hardly used in the past, some sparing and careful lubrication will work wonders for performance. I'm sure you can get replacement traction tyres from the likes of Peter's Spares if the ones on yours have perished.

 

John.

[cheesysmith]

Also, keep a eye out for cheep Hornby super details examples that have suffered from damage to the chassis. The ends are a known week point, and this with the mazac rot means you can repower a old Lima body with the centre section off of one of the new ones and get all wheel drive/pick up, extra mass and smooth crawl. And as a bonus you can replace the under frame tanks with the better Hornby one.

[cheesysmith]

Also, the 1600bhp examples had bolted down radiator filler hatch (I think that what they were) on the roof. So if you model a original version, they don't have the air vent in the bodyside doors, and exhaust ports that are different to the later EE version. As stated earlier, the 2000bhp version had a extra pair of air vents on the bodyside (charge air inter cooling?) and retained these until it meet the gas ax.