Peco points in O scale, queries about parts.

[bertiedog]

I needed a couple of points for a new micro 0 gauge layout, Rye Sands, and looked at the cost of RTR Peco etc, and almost decided on the Peco, but they are to large a radius, so would need handmade, no bother with PC etc., and using Peco 124, with brass plates under each soldered joint to make up the height from the PC surface, no chairs though, so some half chair cast chairs would be needed, or cut from a stretch of Peco base.

 

I was surprised to find that Peco make moulded chairs for the 0 scale 124 rail section, along with sliding chairs as well,....

 

Why is this not mentioned, as it seems to solve the cost difficulties, and provides full chairs for Bullhead.

Is there some difficulty in using these chairs?, perhaps the plastic cannot be glued? for the cost of a stretch of rail and a couple of bags of chairs it seems the cost could be under £10 per point, a massive saving, and the whole thing custom made to fit exactly the track plan.

 

I will order in some to try them out, wooden sleepers under point area, with check rails soldered to brass screws and half chairs fitted to leave the flangeway clear. Making the blades and frogs are no problem, although I see Peco even market those as well.

 

Anybody had experience of using these chairs, they at least match the Peco 0 gauge bullhead track which is excellent stuff.

 

Stephen

Edited November 28, 2016 by bertiedog

[bertiedog]

Nothing about them on Peco's own website, but C&L are listing them as a new item, so a recent Peco introduction it seems. I will do an order and see how they go together with the rail section etc, looks like real cost saver. (IL-702 for 100 standard chairs).(IL-713 for 48 slide chairs).

 

Stephen

[ThePurplePrimer]

I will be watching this with interest

[bertiedog]

Well, now on order with C&L, hope the plastic will glue! I should imagine a spot of super glue run into the rail to chair joint will give a bit of stability, but it's the joint to a plastic or wooden sleeper I am concerned with so I hope the chairs are ABS etc. and will take glue, but I am sure Peco would not have made them un-glueable. It would need a pin nail to hold them if it would resist glue!

 

Stephen.

[brossard]

Stephen I made a couple of turnouts using Peco components.  I'd say they're equivalent to C&L, my only beef is that the chairs are black.  Since the timbers are also black, this makes seeing where they are difficult.  I sprayed them with red oxide primer making sure the base was clear of paint.   I used Pecos templates to make a medium rad turnout.  Solvent is Butanone that I got from C&L.

 

 

I like the method of making the crossing separate using thin copperclad strip.  I made a jig by taping a cutout of the template crossing to a piece of scrap ply.

 

 

 

I'm also making a small layout, 12' long.  Like you, I found the standard Peco points are too large.  My idea was to use the OO small rad turnout blown up to 7mm scale.  Oddly the ratio is 190%, determined empirically by comparing the gauge of the print with actual track.

 

The main difference between medium (on the left) and small rad (template on right) is, obviously, the turnout radius (I calculated it to be 58").  This reduces the lead required to get the 6'.

 

It's a good system.

 

I'm impressed with RTP Peco turnouts, much nicer than the OO version.  I don't care for the very large gap between stock and switch rail.

 

John

Edited November 29, 2016 by brossard

[bertiedog]

A quick chase around the net and other forums, and yes, the chairs are moulded in styrene or ABS and a glue-able to Peco blank sleepers ( new product) or to wood, which can be sawn up on a bandsaw.  Peco are hiding the new product a bit effectively, I wonder if they will do bullhead chairs in OO to match the new bull head track.

[bertiedog]

Stephen I made a couple of turnouts using Peco components.  I'd say they're equivalent to C&L, my only beef is that the chairs are black.  Since the timbers are also black, this makes seeing where they are difficult.  I sprayed them with red oxide primer making sure the base was clear of paint.   I used Pecos templates to make a medium rad turnout.  Solvent is Butanone that I got from C&L.

 

 

I like the method of making the crossing separate using thin copperclad strip.  I made a jig by taping a cutout of the template crossing to a piece of scrap ply.

 

 

 

I'm also making a small layout, 12' long.  Like you, I found the standard Peco points are too large.  My idea was to use the OO small rad turnout blown up to 7mm scale.  Oddly the ratio is 190%, determined empirically by comparing the gauge of the print with actual track.

 

 

It's a good system.

 

I'm impressed with RTP Peco turnouts, much nicer than the OO version.  I don't care for the very large gap between stock and switch rail.

 

John

That's the very same reference that came up in a Google image search! The products sound fine and are cheap for 0 gauge trackwork. I agree about the distance apart from the stock to switch, apparently leave as is on current designs to help stopping the risk of shorts occurring with DCC, when even a tiny flash short will shut down the whole system. Personally I leave the two electrically connected and isolate the frog completely, then all risk of shorts vanishes, and the gap can be as tight as back to back allows.

Looking forward to some decent O gauge points that do not cost a fortune! and fully chaired track and points.

 

Stephen.

[brossard]

I think the Individulay system has been around for quite a long time.  Prices from my supplier are quite good I think, although I haven't made a detailed comparison to C&L.  Maybe Peco prefer people to buy their RTP turnouts.

 

I splurged and got myself a complete point kit from C&L which includes chairs, timbers, rail, crossing and planed switch rails.  There's also roller gauges (although you can decline these), tiebar kit, template and instructions.  Very pricey but I won't need to do it again as I'll make the rest of the turnouts I need myself.

 

John

[brossard]

Crossed posts.  I agree about isolating the crossing and wiring the stock rail to the switch rail.  I made a loose heel with a code 100 joiner but had to solder it to stop the switch rail from coming out.  I'm not convinced you need a loose heel, perhaps someone can confirm.

 

John

[bertiedog]

Indeed the induvidulay system has been going in 00 for donkeys years, but C&L list it as a new item in 0 gauge, and Peco's website totally disregards it, unless somebody can find it in an obscure corner hidden away from prying eyes. Peco have never been their best own publicist over the years, charging for catalogues for a start, and at first the net must have come a shock to them.

 

Stephen.

[brossard]

Nevertheless, I do find their templates extremely useful.  Maybe I shouldn't publicise that too much else Peco will take them down.

 

John

[Simond]

I have some Peco 7mm "individulay" components from aeons ago. So long ago, in fact, that I forgot when, where or why (or indeed if) I bought them...

 

Best

Simon

[John R Smith]

It was 43 years ago when I built all the track for my 0 gauge layout using Peco individual chairs and slide chairs, so they are certainly not a new product. I laid balsa sleepers and crossing timbers and used a mix of glue and Peco track pins to hold everything together.

 

John

[BG John]

Interesting idea to enlarge Peco OO templates. My normal solution is Templot, so is there any advantage to using the Peco templates, as with Templot I can save space by curving and shaping them to fit?

 

I've been given all the copper clad track I need for my planned layout, but it needs some rebuilding. The turnouts are a pretty close match for Peco, and I've got the plan to fit, although some need to be rebuilt as Ys, but I'm now wondering if I should dismantle them completely, and rebuild to a smaller radius.

[hayfield]

Bertiedog

 

Peco's parts have been around for longer than C&L's and obviously Exactoscale's, the latter in my opinion are the best'

 

If using Peco's plastic timber strip or C&L's then any plastic solvent will do. C&L/Exactoscale do some great ply timber strip, this has to be stained and you need Butanone solvent to stick the chairs to the ply, or use super glue

 

If you are making your own plans then don't use Peco's, get a Templot template or C&L plan as they are far more accurate and based on prototypical designs 

Edited November 29, 2016 by hayfield

[Happy Hippo]

Some of the other large scales that Peco support also have the crossing nose and wing rails provided as a pack for you to build your own.

 

You have to solder them up but they are under £5.00 per set.

 

Same goes for switch rails which you can also purchase separately.

 

Il 706       Nickel Silver Frog, wing and Check rails

IL 708      Nickel Silver turnout blades and brackets

IL 714      moulded wood grain sleepers for turnouts.

 

All the above are for .124 BH.

 

Also available for  .143 FB

Edited November 29, 2016 by Happy Hippo

[brossard]

Interesting idea to enlarge Peco OO templates. My normal solution is Templot, so is there any advantage to using the Peco templates, as with Templot I can save space by curving and shaping them to fit?

 

I've been given all the copper clad track I need for my planned layout, but it needs some rebuilding. The turnouts are a pretty close match for Peco, and I've got the plan to fit, although some need to be rebuilt as Ys, but I'm now wondering if I should dismantle them completely, and rebuild to a smaller radius.

 

John, for me the advantage of the Peco templates is that I can print them off and they're done.  I'm not looking for special trackwork and Templot is something I haven't got my head around.  I did find Trax2 good for making special templates but I can't install it on Win 7.  There is another thread where a workaround for that is described - another thing to get around to.

 

I've built lots of copperclad turnouts in 4mm but I prefer the look of chaired.

 

John

[Jeff Smith]

Some of the other large scales that Peco support also have the crossing nose and wing rails provided as a pack for you to build your own.

 

You have to solder them up but they are under £5.00 per set.

 

Same goes for switch rails which you can also purchase separately.

 

Il 706       Nickel Silver Frog, wing and Check rails

IL 708      Nickel Silver turnout blades and brackets

IL 714      moulded wood grain sleepers for turnouts.

 

All the above are for .124 BH.

 

Also available for  .143 FB

The Peco site is a bit annoying. You can only find the above products if you do a search; and even then you have to know the item number and enter it correctly. IL-706 etc, it must have the dash.

[hayfield]

John, for me the advantage of the Peco templates is that I can print them off and they're done.  I'm not looking for special trackwork and Templot is something I haven't got my head around.  I did find Trax2 good for making special templates but I can't install it on Win 7.  There is another thread where a workaround for that is described - another thing to get around to.

 

I've built lots of copperclad turnouts in 4mm but I prefer the look of chaired.

 

John

 

 

John

 

As an alternative you can buy C&L turnout plans in both 4 & 7 mm scales, and of course there is Templot with its unlimited variety. Also these alternatives will be slightly more prototypical in apperiance  

Edited November 29, 2016 by hayfield

[bertiedog]

The Peco site needs a new layout! I found things in the end, by searching on Google and then back referencing to Peco! C&L and Peco list the 124 chairs, (both types) as a new item though, maybe an update or something. The total cost of the point must be less than an 00 point in the end. The only part to make is the connecting bar, (insulated), in tufnol, with brass studs or bolts to solder the rails to to drive them. As the running and blade are tied together there is no electrical contact required between them via the rail, so painting and weathering is easy. A single changeover micro switch is needed for the crossing frog, coupled to the tufnol bar.

 

I think it might be best to add tiny brass screws under the check rails and solder the rail on, then fit the split chairs back in place, a bit stronger perhaps.

 

In 00 I usually add a hinge at the point Peco do, by soldering a phosphor bronze strip across a cut on the outside of the rail. This lightens the action of the blades if motorised, but on this tiny new layout I think I'll stick to manual operation were the solid blades will do fine.

Edited December 6, 2016 by bertiedog

[brossard]

John

 

As an alternative you can buy C&L turnout plans in both 4 & 7 mm scales, and of course there is Templot with its unlimited variety. Also these alternatives will be slightly more prototypical in apperiance  

 

John, I did have the C&L templates for bot OO and EM but they've gone to a good home.  As I mentioned, the complete turnout kit comes with a template so I can use that to titivate what I make from the Peco template.  One thing I do like and must get more of is the Ambis tiebar kit.

 

John

[Simond]

John

 

You may find the JLTRT tiebars easier and stronger than the Ambis ones

 

The Ambis ones do look better IMO

 

best

Simon

[brossard]

Thanks Simon.  Yes the Ambis parts do look good.  By mistake I bought some of the C&L tiebars that are brass rod in a plastic tube.

 

Finally found the "point ties".  These look to be a good deal.  I had a look around, which could prove to be expensive.

 

My plan is to actuate the turnout by dropping steel wire under the board and using a Tortoise.

 

John

[Simond]

Hi John

 

I have built 4 turnouts, a catch point and a tandem for PD, The last two have JLTRT tiebars, the tandem & the others are Ambis. All are powered by under board tortoises, with spring wire drive, or in the case of the catch point, will be. Not had much use yet, but so far, I'm happy with both. The JLTRTs are easier as I noted above.

 

HTH

Simon

[brossard]

Of course, Simon, I'm not inclined to buy just the one thing so I'll have to get something else, like, maybe a BR CCT.

 

John