Jump to content
 

Andrew Barclay 14" & 16" 0-4-0ST in OO Gauge

Hattons Dave

By Hattons Dave,
in Hattons

 Share

Recommended Posts

  • RMweb Gold
Captain Kernow

Captain Kernow

Posted
  • RMweb Gold
Posted (edited)

Someone mentioned fitting a vertical motor and leaving the boiler free- here is Smelly Nellie from "No Place".  A lovely looking loco with the motor mounted vertically BUT at the price of not having enough adhesive weight to guarantee pickup over even the shortest dead section, and nowhere to add a stay alive- the tank is full of lead and chip but it isn't enough. Nellie is a shed pet- looks lovely but doesn't get run.

Nellie looks great and it's a pity you are having problems getting her to run properly.

 

I'm slightly puzzled, though, by the implication (if that's the right expression) that a heavy chassis block is the only way to get a loco of this size to run nicely. If you take any of the High Level 0-4-0ST kits, for example, which are etched brass/nickel silver, and usually with the motor in the boiler, driving the rear axle by means of a clever gear box, then these most certainly don't have heavy cast metal chassis blocks, yet (if built correctly), run as sweetly and reliably as anything you're ever likely to find on a 4mm layout.

 

Certainly, it pays to stuff the remaining places in the body with lead, but otherwise there's no other weight apart from the body itself (OK, perhaps a cast fitting or two).

 

Perhaps it is the fitting of compensation or springing that makes a difference to the pick up? I'm not totally sure, but I do know that they work, and Chris Gibbon is to be congratulated on making such reliable and sweet-running locos possible.

Edited by Captain Kernow
Link to post
Share on other sites
davknigh

davknigh

Posted
Posted

Nellie looks great and it's a pity you are having problems getting her to run properly.

 

I'm slightly puzzled, though, by the implication (if that's the right expression) that a heavy chassis block is the only way to get a loco of this size to run nicely. If you take any of the High Level 0-4-0ST kits, for example, which are etched brass/nickel silver, and usually with the motor in the boiler, driving the rear axle by means of a clever gear box, then these most certainly don't have heavy cast metal chassis blocks, yet (if built correctly), run as sweetly and reliably as anything you're ever likely to find on a 4mm layout.

 

Certainly, it pays to stuff the remaining places in the body with lead, but otherwise there's no other weight apart from the body itself (OK, perhaps a cast fitting or two).

 

Perhaps it is the fitting of compensation or springing that makes a difference to the pick up? I'm not totally sure, but I do know that they work, and Chris Gibbon is to be congratulated on making such reliable and sweet-running locos possible.

When it comes to matters of traction, regardless of gauge, this is a good guide http://www.clag.org.uk/41-0rev.html

Weight is important but so is weight distribution. It's not much good having loads of weight and all of it sitting off centre. Compensation/springing helps as all available wheels can do their work and last but not least gear ratio is critical. Being able to start the wheels turning slowly reduces wheel slip, just like the real thing. My HighLevel engines weigh between 93 and 114g and will walk away with 10 wagons averaging 50g each on level track. As an aside, I wonder how much the Barclay weighs? My Peckett is about 129g.

 

Cheers,

 

David

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
bertiedog

bertiedog

Posted
Posted (edited)

This is not a criticism of a particular loco, or even one member, but a comment on the haulage issue of some kits and chassis, especially in relation to 040 types.

The mention of the vertical motor mounting a lack of haulage cannot be connected, it makes no difference where the motor is, apart from the obvious that it should be within the wheelbase.

What goes wrong is the squareness and level of the chassis.

 

This does not mean the chassis is cock eyed, the out of true can be as little a one or two thousandths of an inch.

 

It happens more with etched kit chassis than any other,

 

The chassis, even sprung, has the axles out of parallel, and in effect is only standing on two wheels, with the third just keeping it in balance on the track.

To check this when it is such a small amount is difficult, it needs a flat test plate, fitted with a ground top section of track tested flat with dial gauges, to the surface plate.

 

The loco is stood on and the chassis is checked for movement with a dial gauge as pressure is applied to each area over the wheels. No reading should occur, and if all is well then dismiss out of true.

But over the years I have tested dozens of "bad haulers", and all had slight issues with squareness of the chassis.

Springing does not protect you, the wheels may all have different pressures on them, unless the compensation is well set up.

 

The chassis could have been well built in a jig etc, but it seems what happens is that the act of finally fitting the body and screwing up tight can still distort the frames enough to ruin the haulage.

 

It is worth checking a bad hauler most carefully, slackening the retaining screw, adding shims, or twisting the chassis to cure the problem.

 

The Hornby Peckett is a good example, it hauls well, and passes a surface plate test with flying colours, no distortion at all.

 

Note the wheel tyres are in contact with a true surface, on the flanges, and it assumes the wheels are concentric with the axles.

 

A related problem with Model Engineer live steam is one or more of a set of wheels not being the same diameter. This causes constant wheel slip, and the loco just will not haul. Skimming the wheels to the same dramatically increases the haulage.

 

Stephen

Edited by bertiedog
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Porcy Mane

Porcy Mane

Posted
Posted

The 'traditional' drive arrangement will be welcome, of course, and thanks for pointing that out, Porcy.

 

Traditional in design but perhaps not quite conventional in terms of current 4mm practice. Only testing will prove if it's durable. If you want to waste 5 minutes of your life you could watch this vid that shows a gearbox/motor under test using a 12 volt coreless motor. Powered directly from an old AGW controller. The slow frame rate of the camera is not very conducive to showing the rotation speed at 12 volts but hey ho. You'll have to stick with the vid for no other reason than to hear the Massed Banjo Band of Porcy's Pluckers.

 

 

I fully expect the gears to strip when installed in a test chassis but as that's expected as I've got a High Level humpshunter gearbox on the bench for what I'm trying to knock up an adaptor plate (it's more of an adaptor tube) to fit a same size coreless motor.

 

So, in true Porcy style, in wandering of topic by mentioning High Level again; knowing Mr Gibbon as I do he'll be experiencing some embarrassment at the various good intentioned mentions of his products in this thread.  His embarrassment will be even more acute in thinking that talking about his products here may detract from the importance of Hattons announcement.

 

Having bumped into Mr Gibbon in the Kebab shop late last night, he has said should/if/when development takes place on the chassis, the best place to discuss or express interest would be in the dedicated High Level thread.

 

P

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
No Decorum

No Decorum

Posted
Posted

Traditional in design but perhaps not quite conventional in terms of current 4mm practice. Only testing will prove if it's durable. If you want to waste 5 minutes of your life you could watch this vid that shows a gearbox/motor under test using a 12 volt coreless motor. Powered directly from an old AGW controller. The slow frame rate of the camera is not very conducive to showing the rotation speed at 12 volts but hey ho. You'll have to stick with the vid for no other reason than to hear the Massed Banjo Band of Porcy's Pluckers.

 

I fully expect the gears to strip when installed in a test chassis but as that's expected as I've got a High Level humpshunter gearbox on the bench for what I'm trying to knock up an adaptor plate (it's more of an adaptor tube) to fit a same size coreless motor.

 

So, in true Porcy style, in wandering of topic by mentioning High Level again; knowing Mr Gibbon as I do he'll be experiencing some embarrassment at the various good intentioned mentions of his products in this thread.  His embarrassment will be even more acute in thinking that talking about his products here may detract from the importance of Hattons announcement.

 

Having bumped into Mr Gibbon in the Kebab shop late last night, he has said should/if/when development takes place on the chassis, the best place to discuss or express interest would be in the dedicated High Level thread.

 

P

First reaction: they must be those new-fangled coreless banjos.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Mel_H

Mel_H

Posted
Posted (edited)

I would carry on with it.

 

 

I've got a DJH version and a SEF P Class in the pile. But I will still build them eventually and probably buy one each of these.

 

 

 

Anyone know where I can get a Fell kit? :)

 

 

 

Jason

I have one. I'll let you know when I start building it, as that will prompt the inevitable announcement. Seriously, it looks a bit tricky to build; will have to summon up serious courage!

Edited by Mel_H
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold
Captain Kernow

Captain Kernow

Posted
  • RMweb Gold
Posted

Morning Cap'n. If you look at the livery samples that Dave has put on the first page it does look like the chassis block will be black to try and hide it.

 

I fully intend to do the same as you and put some clutter around to hide it even more.

I've just been having a look at the excellent 'Devonport Dockyard Railway' by Paul Burkhalter (Twelveheads Press, but not currently in print), and in the 'Locomotives' chapter, there are some photos of some of their Barclay 0-4-0STs, with their running plates absolutely piled high with all manner of equipment and other stuff. You can't even see the boiler at all in one of the photos!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Mel_H

Mel_H

Posted
Posted

Traditional in design but perhaps not quite conventional in terms of current 4mm practice. Only testing will prove if it's durable. If you want to waste 5 minutes of your life you could watch this vid that shows a gearbox/motor under test using a 12 volt coreless motor. Powered directly from an old AGW controller. The slow frame rate of the camera is not very conducive to showing the rotation speed at 12 volts but hey ho. You'll have to stick with the vid for no other reason than to hear the Massed Banjo Band of Porcy's Pluckers.

 

 

I fully expect the gears to strip when installed in a test chassis but as that's expected as I've got a High Level humpshunter gearbox on the bench for what I'm trying to knock up an adaptor plate (it's more of an adaptor tube) to fit a same size coreless motor.

 

So, in true Porcy style, in wandering of topic by mentioning High Level again; knowing Mr Gibbon as I do he'll be experiencing some embarrassment at the various good intentioned mentions of his products in this thread.  His embarrassment will be even more acute in thinking that talking about his products here may detract from the importance of Hattons announcement.

 

Having bumped into Mr Gibbon in the Kebab shop late last night, he has said should/if/when development takes place on the chassis, the best place to discuss or express interest would be in the dedicated High Level thread.

 

P

 

Porcy's pluckers are nice, but what's the first track?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Porcy Mane

Porcy Mane

Posted
Posted

Porcy's pluckers are nice, but what's the first track?

 

 

It's one of those, earworm/where have I heard that before compositions.

 

Mr Waterman (as S,A &W) has to bear a percentage of the responsibility. I'm embarrassed to say I know the answer.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Spin_Me_Round_(Like_a_Record)

 

P

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold
Hattons Dave

Hattons Dave

Posted
  • Author
  • RMweb Gold
Posted (edited)

Hi all,

 

Following the new information raised as part of this thread in regards to the slightly longer wheelbase of NCB No. 23, we are unable to produce this locomotive as originally described within the tooling variations we have available.

 
We have therefore made the decision to produce this model as Barclay 2043 'No.6' in NCB green, which is suitable for the same era, role and location as the originally announced item.
 
It will be produced with open cab back and in Kinneil colliery condition rather than as preserved.
 
Further details are available on our website at Hatton's Andrew Barclay - No.6 in NCB Green.
 
Please see the new artwork below for the amended version. 
 
post-28458-0-36786700-1505737971_thumb.png
 
We appreciate all the feedback that has been provided so far and hope that this change does not cause any issues.

 
Cheers,
 
Dave
Edited by Hatton's Dave
  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...