Teenagers!

[Joseph_Pestell]

We have four teenagers staying with us this week - supposedly "work experience". I can get through more by myself than with these four "helping".

 

I know I am of grandparent age but never expected to feel so negative about young people and the future of this country. These are all from the more intelligent end of the spectrum, at good schools; the future elite. All nice kids, but completely clueless.

 

Do any of you out there, with teenage children, have any idea how we progress? I find it scary.

[Compound2632]

1. What are you asking them to do? Have you explained to them what the purpose in doing it is?

2. Have you explained your expectations?

3. Have you broken their task down into chunks, the completion of each of which will give a sense of a worthwhile achievement?

4. Remember that although how to do whatever it is you're asking them to do is second nature to you, they've almost certainly never done anything like it before. You have two generations-worth of experience on them.

 

If you think getting them to complete your task satisfactorily is an uphill struggle, you should try getting them to draw a graph...

[WD0-6-0]

Seems a little general, not all teenagers are like that. I'm 19, half way through a 4 year marine engineering apprenticeship with a garaunteed job at the end and sensible enough to have chosen an industry field that remains unaffected even in times of poor UK economy. And there are nearly 40 other apprentices in this one company all aged between 16 and 21. There are quite a few of us with our heads screwed on the right way so take courage

[Two_sugars]

It's not all bad news.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-44916409

 

 

 

John

['CHARD]

We have four teenagers staying with us this week - supposedly "work experience". I can get through more by myself than with these four "helping".

 

I know I am of grandparent age but never expected to feel so negative about young people and the future of this country. These are all from the more intelligent end of the spectrum, at good schools; the future elite. All nice kids, but completely clueless.

 

Do any of you out there, with teenage children, have any idea how we progress? I find it scary.

 

I was honoured and delighted to attend my daughter and her boyfriend's graduation last Friday.  We adjourned afterwards for a meal - both families, with one teenager and four early twenty-somethings between us.  The level of discussion and wit was life-affirming, fresh and at times humbling - I found myself doing most of the listening and reflecting on how well-rounded, well-informed and well-reasoned they each were. 

 

I have no such worries about how we progress.

 

However, I am not daft enough to think that there isn't also a minority, possibly a sizeable one, of young people whose perspective, ambition and ability to step up to a challenge and ask questions may well have been stunted by a choice, probably subconscious, to immerse themselves in a blind alley of celebrity watching and reality TV (gaming even), that has sucked out their desire to contribute in 'real world' situations, and left a vacuum of meaninglessness where inspiration and ambition should be.

[petethemole]

We used to have youngsters on WE and after a few the manager would never take more than two as they spent too much time interacting with each other. We would split them up; if there was just one on a job they were usually fine. I was reminded of the old saying, about boys as employees: "One boy is a boy, two boys are half a boy, three boys are a quarter of a boy, and four boys are no boys at all".

[4630]

Perhaps on this occasion you've just been unlucky, Joseph.

 

To turn the discussion slightly on its head, it's actually many (but not all) of the adults that I meet on a day-to-day basis that make me worry about the future of this country.   Those who appear to wear a permanent scowl; have an overwhelming sense of entitlement; adopt a 'me first' approach to every activity; and just suck the joy out of life.

[Metr0Land]

I did voluntary work for 10 years doing Young Enterprise as an adviser where you go into a local school helping kids set up and run a business for year.

 

One thing I did have to learn is just how much I'd learnt over the years without realising some things had become as natural as breathing, but in fact they were actually learned and not natural thinking/behaviour.   The other thing which was frustrating (until you could cure them) was that they'd come up the education escalator, so you had to train them to focus in a more businesslike manner.

[Nimbus]

1. What are you asking them to do? Have you explained to them what the purpose in doing it is?

2. Have you explained your expectations?

3. Have you broken their task down into chunks, the completion of each of which will give a sense of a worthwhile achievement?

 

Looking back, 60's through 90's, none of my teachers/lecturers ever did this!

 

The Nim.

[cal.n]

We have four teenagers staying with us this week - supposedly "work experience". I can get through more by myself than with these four "helping".

 

I know I am of grandparent age but never expected to feel so negative about young people and the future of this country. These are all from the more intelligent end of the spectrum, at good schools; the future elite. All nice kids, but completely clueless.

 

Do any of you out there, with teenage children, have any idea how we progress? I find it scary.

Clueless in a practical sense? The next generation unfortunately will not have some basic skills like wiring a plug, convert feet to meters or anything that may be considered simple. We have a different skill set because we can just ‘Google’ both of those things.

 

I have recently completed work experience with a FOC at a large TMD and a little knowledge of basic mechanics and electronics goes a long way and I was given more and more responsibilities and in the end, I do think I sped up whoever I was with because I could solder, use a lathe and have a good knowledge of a workshop.

 

My generation are just as practical, just not in the same way. Having grown up with every answer to everything you could ever need in your pocket will mean we will not have skills you regard as standard. But in the world we grow up in, our technological skills will be seen as just as basic.

 

Callum (17)

Edited July 26, 2018 by cal.n

[bike2steam]

Split them up, and get them to work separately out of each others sight. They've not matured yet, and will take the piss out of each other if one seems to be behaving, or doing what they should, in front of the others. They still have to learn to behave responsibly - well that was me in my mid-teens (mid 1960's).

[pete_mcfarlane]

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

 

Socrates (469–399 B.C.)

 

Nothing has changed in two and a half millennia.

[PatB]

Everyone's a clueless git in their teenage years. Anyone who claims not to have been is deluded. Fortunately most of us actually learn a bit from the experience which is helpful when we grow up. Don't sweat it. All will be well.

[ejstubbs]

One thing I did have to learn is just how much I'd learnt over the years without realising some things had become as natural as breathing, but in fact they were actually learned and not natural thinking/behaviour.

 

The term for this is "unconscious competent": people like this usually make poor teachers because they don't understand/have forgotten how much stuff they themselves had to learn to get to the level of competence that they currently have.  It's not a bad thing, just a thing.  "Unconscious competents" are often among the very best at doing what they do, but are not terribly good at passing on their accumulated skills and experience to anyone a long way away from their level of competence.

 

The best teachers are usually "conscious competents": they are good at doing what they do, though not necessarily among the very best, but they can remember what it was like starting from ground zero, and all the things they had to learn on the way to reaching the level of competence they now have.  They can use that knowledge to inform their teaching so that they pitch each lesson at the right level for their students to be able to learn.  An "unconscious competent" can transition towards becoming a "conscious competent" if, like you, they begin to recognise the gap between what they they didn't know that they knew, and what the students don't know.

 

The most dangerous types to have in an organisation or team are the "unconscious incompetents": they're rubbish at the job, but are too stupid to realise it so take on stuff that they aren't actually competent to do, mess it up and waste everyone's time correcting their mistakes.  These people can be amongst the first to volunteer to take on a task, which is why a sensible team leader/manager will avoid dumping work on the first person to put their hand up: you need to make sure that they are actually up to the job (or that they have appropriate support, if you want them to learn in the process) before leaving them to it.  (See also the Dunning-Kruger effect.)

 

The fourth type of person is the "conscious incompetent": they know the limits of their ability and won't offer or agree to take on work that's beyond their competence out of eagerness or a desire to impress.  On the positive side, knowing their limits does mean that they can articulate what help and support they might need to take on a task which stretches their capabilities, if the team requires that eg because no-one else is available - assuming that the bandwidth exists to provide said help and support.

Edited July 26, 2018 by ejstubbs

[Clive Mortimore]

We have four teenagers staying with us this week - supposedly "work experience". I can get through more by myself than with these four "helping".

 

I know I am of grandparent age but never expected to feel so negative about young people and the future of this country. These are all from the more intelligent end of the spectrum, at good schools; the future elite. All nice kids, but completely clueless.

 

Do any of you out there, with teenage children, have any idea how we progress? I find it scary.

Hi Joseph

 

A wallop with a big stick normally works but my understanding it isn't allowed any more. So give them a reason to do something, a goal and a reward. It is bit like training a dog.

[Reorte]

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

 

Socrates (469–399 B.C.)

 

Nothing has changed in two and a half millennia.

The danger with quoting that is that it makes it easy to dismiss any actual changes that have occurred. Children have always behaved like that, the question is to what degree does it tail off with age, and has that remained constant.

[Joseph_Pestell]

The dog has always been much easier!

 

We have had teenagers/early 20s here before. Some of them were great workers. But they were from other countries.

 

One of this lot wants to be an engineer (his mother is a senior weapons engineer working for MoD). He seems incapable of unscrewing a hose from a tap.

[Reorte]

My generation are just as practical, just not in the same way. Having grown up with every answer to everything you could ever need in your pocket will mean we will not have skills you regard as standard. But in the world we grow up in, our technological skills will be seen as just as basic.

 

Callum (17)

Perhaps, or you might find your technological skills become out of date and redundant even quicker. They're good to have but not to rely on.

[Ian Morgan]

'Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it.'

 

George Orwell

[Mad McCann]

It's taken me until my mid '50s to mould myself into something useful to wider humanity so take heart! ;-)

 

Davy.

[bike2steam]

The dog has always been much easier!

 

 

 

 Aint that the truth !!!!

[WD0-6-0]

I don't doubt there are some seriously poorly performing youngsters, of the 40 I mentioned I can name one who I'd rather had left and drags the rest of us down, I know they exist. Likewise I know the number of cynical people in the generations prior to my own to be equally small (not accusing anyone here)

I appreciate the support I've gotten from many of you and challenge the rest, in a good natured way,to consider changing their outlook on the majority of us who would rather not be looked down upon because a small minority are a "bad batch"

Edited July 26, 2018 by WD0-6-0

[ddoherty958]

We have four teenagers staying with us this week - supposedly "work experience". I can get through more by myself than with these four "helping".

 

I know I am of grandparent age but never expected to feel so negative about young people and the future of this country. These are all from the more intelligent end of the spectrum, at good schools; the future elite. All nice kids, but completely clueless.

 

Do any of you out there, with teenage children, have any idea how we progress? I find it scary.

Well I’m 13 and I’m building a model of the L & L S R in inoshowen, Ireland. Wish me luck!

[ejstubbs]

One of this lot wants to be an engineer (his mother is a senior weapons engineer working for MoD). He seems incapable of unscrewing a hose from a tap.

 

That's a job for a technician.

 

I'm only partly joking: the use of the term "engineer" for anyone who can manage to hold a screwdriver the right way round is a perpetual source of annoyance for [some] professionally qualified engineers.  However, it cannot be denied that a degree of practical experience, if not necessarily proficiency, is useful in many professional engineering disciplines.  OTOH it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if, for example, there were at least a few automotive engineers who can't actually drive.  A good many engineers these days probably have more practical expertise in using a computer than they do in wielding physical tools.

 

You also need to take in to account the specialisation and segmentation of disciplines.  One of my previous employers was a microelectronics design company.  Few if any of the ferociously clever electronic engineers who worked there designing digital audio processing microchips would have had a clue how to run the machines that actually made the things.  Contrariwise, the equally smart folks who design and build silicon foundry equipment would likely not get very far with the CAD software that our chip designers used to design and simulation test their microscopically tiny circuits.  And why should they?  So long as there are people able to facilitate the communication between the two, chips can be designed, simulated, made and tested without any one person needing to be able to understand or execute the end-to-end process at the finest level of detail.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technician

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer

Edited July 26, 2018 by ejstubbs

[Joseph_Pestell]

Well I’m 13 and I’m building a model of the L & L S R in inoshowen, Ireland. Wish me luck!

 

I'm very happy to wish you all the best with  that. If everyone was a railway modeller, practical skills would be far more common.