Which controller to buy?

[CarlF]

Hi All,

 

I’ve decided to make the move to start my layout using DCC, It will be a brand new layout 9 ft x 7 ft in the loft.

 

My layout will be 3 main lines and will only run a maximum of 3 locos at once ( Wont be very often). So would be a small/medium sized layout, i wont be using point motors however, would like to use accessories such as lights etc. I'm a beginner when it comes to this as this will be my first attempt at making a model railway, therefore i'm unsure which controller to buy for my first one. I've got a few in mind, these are:

 

Gaugemaster Prodigy Express 

NCE Powercab 

Hornby Select 

 

Or would you recommend a totally different controller? 

 

I'm looking to purchase a second hand one ideally as my budget is not the highest, i've got Hornby track from years ago which was in the starter packs i was given which i intend to use for this layout, i don't believe this track causes many issues? 

 

Any help and advice would be most appreciated.

 

Thank you

[JohnR]

The Hornby Select is a very basic controller, and leaving aside issues that were reported in the early days of non-compliance with DCC standards, it does not have all the features you may need. For example, loco addressing is limited, reading of CVs is not possible and not all loco functions are available (for eg a Sound loco).

 

You would be better off with one of the other two options.

[Ron Ron Ron]

There are several choices to look at for an entry level DCC system, in that sort of price range.

No doubt you'll get a few endorsements from people who will want to back their own choice, so be a little cautious.

 

Personally, I'd leave the Hornby Select off your list.

It has very basic capabilities in some areas and there are still reports of issues when used with certain brands of decoder.

 

Add to your list...

Digitrax Zephyr Express

Roco z21  (the entry level version with the little "z")

Roco MultiMaus  (becoming quite scarce as a brand new item)

Piko SmartControl Light

 

 

 

.

[Phil S]

depending on the age of your Hornby track - it might pose problems, as, many years ago, it was made with coated steel ... which supported the magnadhesion of tri-ang locos which had magnets built into their chassis for extra grip...

[this has resurfaced, in recent years as 'powerbase' steel pieces placed beneath any track, and neo magnets stuck to locos .... and Busch's mine / field locos running on 6.5mm track ... which can even run upside down due to the magnets]

However, the Hornby track of that period is likely to have rusted  ... depending on storage conditions ... but a loft will give it high temperature and humidity variations which would help it rust.   MODERN Hornby track is nickel silver ... and non-magnetic... and does not rust.

 

i'll avoid making a particular make/model of controller recommendation, but suggest you look at  these aspects, and see how they fit into your preferred style of operation....

 

As with mobile phones taking over from cabled phones; mamy controllers systems now offer wifi connected handsets or devices.... you could use your existing smart phone or tablet as both a speed controller (including all functions) and/or as a portable zoomable layout track plan from which to remotely operaye points  ... the other options being to physically move to each point each time you wamt to change or check it, or the 'fixed operating control cosole and signalbox style.  it costs nothing to search the web before spending any money!

Central Console styles from ESU, Marklin, Uhlenbrock, ztc and Hornby [elite].....

cabled handsets.... some only control locos, others do accessories as well, some with names and graphics, then the obvious development to wireless handsets .

phones/tablets have a choice of 'app' amd may wo4k with the above.

S88, expressnet, or loconet, busses allow various makes of add-ond to be used together.

[we use expressnet .. as do lenz, roco, ztc, Hornby, and 1 old Bachmann controller....

look these mames up in a search engine and see where they lead.....

 

[RAF96]

On 26/06/2019 at 15:43, JohnR said:

The Hornby Select ....... reading of CVs is not possible and not all loco functions are available (for eg a Sound loco).

 

Not true - Select v1.6 can change CVs 1-255 for values 1-255 as applicable and support for all 29 Functions has been there since v1.5. Loco addresses are however still limited to 1-59 and points 61-99.

Edited June 29, 2019 by RAF96
Rewording

[RobjUK]

I'd back Ron's mention of the Digitrax Zephyr (DCS51 or now DCS52).

 

I have had a DCS51 for around three years, it's an excellent controller if you want a console style.

You can get a USB interface that connects to that for computer control (and via that such as smartphone / tablet throttle apps).

 

The DCS52 appears to now include the USB interface, which makes it very good value - and the buttons are a bit more conventional in styling.

 

From a quick look on Google they are available at less that 200- (pounds or dollars, depending where you are).

 

[Oldddudders]

The Zephyr Express does seem to do most of what the top-range Digitrax systems do - which is a lot. But it only allows 20 throttles and 20 addresses (locos) at any one time. If that is a limitation for most of us I'd be surprised.

[WIMorrison]

20 throttles may be more that most people use at one time (excepting those that use Automation who often have more) but a limitation fo 20 Locos would cause issues for a great number of modellers

[Oldddudders]

1 minute ago, WIMorrison said:

20 throttles may be more that most people use at one time (excepting those that use Automation who often have more) but a limitation fo 20 Locos would cause issues for a great number of modellers

20 locos at one time? Really? Choice of 9983 numbers, just only 20 at once.  

[WIMorrison]

That is still only 20 locos on the layout at one time and I know several people with many more than that on the layout, in sheds, in sidings, sat idle and then some running - 20 is easy to fill up quite quickly.

[Phil S]

The Multimaus Family have a user library of 64 named / easily selectable locos in each handset which can be copied to other handsets, and to/from some automation software via the central console. The original restriction of 5 characters for the name is replaced by a scrolling 10 with the new wifi maus (for the Z21/z21).  Whilst the manual states they are for 'CV1' addresses, in practice, they can be any address - short or long ! ( That manual error deterred me using the library method for a lloooonnngg time ! )  (Otherwise addresses etc can be typed-in - single handed as with all features unless a child's size hand.  The newer phones and tablets can use colour images of each loco - which 'sweep past' like an appleMac  during selection, as well as enabling  you to draw your trackplan - and use it to control points, signals, and with additional feedback devices ... track occupation.   ... showing that you have plenty of choice in track displays from paper diarams through phone screens, console screens (7"?) , tablets (10") to large screen displays ( 28-40" ? ). 'MacKinley Railway' uses multiple screens as supported by the pc running its automation software [RR+Co]....  but until feedback is added, the display+control is/can be quite cheap.

 

As a 'cost comparison' - Raspberry Pi's cost about 35GBP + extras - and can be used to control and run railways with automation software, or a Sprog. There is a wide  choice - and it depends where your interests lie as to the rote to follow. 

[Nigelcliffe]

19 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

That is still only 20 locos on the layout at one time and I know several people with many more than that on the layout, in sheds, in sidings, sat idle and then some running - 20 is easy to fill up quite quickly.

 

The 20 limit on the Zephyr (and there are limits on all systems, many entry systems around 10-20 locos) is the number of decoders under control.    That does include any left idling (sound on) stationary or with other functions turned on.  But it does not include any left fully stopped (sound off, all functions off, not moving).    If stopped and all functions off locos are correctly "dispatched" (Digitrax manual term) from the system, their slots should be cleared and be vacant for a new loco.  Thus loco 21, 22, etc.  can be operated. 

 

A layout owner can place any number of locos on the layout(*), and run any combination of them without a problem, provided locos are dispatched when they are parked up no longer in use.  

 

 

(* there will be a current draw limit - an idle decoder draws some current, so put enough of them on a layout and it will eventually overload the available current.  But that's a big number of locos, and such a situation occurs based on the power output of any system ). 

 

 

- Nigel

 

[WIMorrison]

Nigel

 

i understand what you are referring to and it is much the same point that I am making. 

 

You have to know how many locos you have active and when you want the 21st whether it is physically on the layout or  on the shelf the activities are the same - you need to take one out of the stack to be able to enter another - very frustrating and I know a chap who has this issue and keeps forgetting that he needs to do this and he gets annoyed (and embarrassed) when it happens - easy to remember the f what the fault is when you are young and sprightly, as we get older the known resolution doesn’t always spring to mind immediately

 

I guess it is very much a case of caveat emptor.

[petejones]

I purchased a Digitrax Zephyr Express last week and am very happy with it, having used the Digitrax Zephyr Extra before, it is much improved.

[RobjUK]

On 27/06/2019 at 20:52, WIMorrison said:

That is still only 20 locos on the layout at one time and I know several people with many more than that on the layout, in sheds, in sidings, sat idle and then some running - 20 is easy to fill up quite quickly.

 

By the time you get anywhere near 20 locos on the track at the same time, you are probably going to need a DCC booster unit to power them anyway.

 

At that point, you can get eg. a DCS 240 which links to the Zephyr. 

The zephyr is then just another throttle/booster and the DCS unit becomes the command station, with capacity for up to 400 locos and throttles...

 

The point is, the "20 locos at once" figure is not a hard limit and does not prevent future expansion.

(I'm not saying you _should_ buy the DCS51 or 52, just giving some balance to the thread).

 

[Sol]

I have 27 locos on my layout using NCE Procab  5A version and at any one time ,there could be 5 locos on the move meaning 5 throttles  - no problems. The other 22 locos are there to be called up as required - they all use a small amount of power ( no lights or sound) doing nothing..

A friend has on his layout using a Lenz 5A system, 250 locos but as they are all isolated on tracks until required, on average just 5 locos sitting  or moving using power.

[Gavin Liddiard]

On my club's largest layout, Mostyn, we have over 60 locomotives and powered dmu vehicles with around 12 being sound equipped.

There can be over 10 locos moving at any one time. Mostyn uses the Lenz LZV100 (v3.6) command station which has 5A max current draw.

We have a RRampMeter (https://www.digitrains.co.uk/rrampmeter-version-1.html) wired in to the main control panel which displays the current draw and it rarely reads more than 3 Amps. That said, I would think that any system offering 3 Amps or more will be more than adequate for your needs.

The capability of your chosen DCC system willl make a big difference to the way you operate your layout.

Can it read and write CVs and, If you are planning on running locos with sound, can it access all 29 functions?

My advice is to buy the most capable system you can afford. If you are happy buying second hand you will get a much better system than a new starter set that you might grow out of quickly.

It's also worth trying different systems to see what suits you. A local model railway club might be able to help in that respect. Do you want a fixed controller or walkabout. Knob or buttons for speed control etc.

I have been using the Lenz DCC for over 18 years and, allowing for firmware updates, haven't reached it's limits yet. I just bought a spare Set100 (not including transformer) for £160 via ebay (second hand but barely used) for security at exhibitions.

If I wasn't happy with my Lenz Set 100 (LZV100 + LH100 handset) I would look at the Digikeijs DR5000 command station. It doesn't come with a controller but you can use most DCC controllers or via a phone/tablet app and it is a fully featured DCC system. We are using their DR4018 accessory decoders which seem to be good and are very reasonaby priced.

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On ‎01‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 10:54, CarlF said:

...would you recommend a totally different controller?...

If you can get yourself to a show where a DCC specialist retailer is demonstrating, or to the premises of same, a tryout of as many controller interfaces as possible is recommended, to find those which you prefer, or even 'the one'. This hobby is supposed to be fun, and a control interface which you quickly find instinctive to operate will help with that.