West Highland coaching stock early 1980's

[Calmack]

I have been looking at West Highland Line and Kyle of Lochalsh / Thurso line trains in the Andrew Vines 'Diesels in the Highlands', Michael Palin's Great Railway Journey in 1980, videos on YouTube, and other pictures on the internet. I have been trying to work out formations. An obvious difference between Mk1 SO's and SK's is that the SO has only a few roof ventilators, whilst the SK has many. The brakes I try and recognise from the coach side patterns - the number of seating area windows and pattern of brake area doors and windows, also noting that the BSO's may be BSOT's (Buffet label in end window and short red line above the window). I have also noticed Mk2z or Mk2a coaches in use also.

The train at the end of the Michael Palin film I believe is Mk1 SO/TSO and Mk1 BFK hauled by a class 27. WHL trains in the 1980's were mainly formed of 3-4 coaches, though there would be more coaches in the high season. The tank wagons (TTA not OTA which are the timber wagons) were only used in mixed trains between Fort William (fuel depot) and Mallaig for the fishing boats. How the tanks were shunted onto the train I do not know.

[John M Upton]

Reviving an old topic here, I am looking at possibly doing a few mk1's in the green/cream West Highland Line livery and am having a little difficulty nailing down the type and identity of mk1's that carried these colours.

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction please?  I know one was a BCK and I have one ready for repainting, it is the rest I need to try and identify.

 

Many thanks!

[Scottish Modeller]

Reviving an old topic here, I am looking at possibly doing a few mk1's in the green/cream West Highland Line livery and am having a little difficulty nailing down the type and identity of mk1's that carried these colours.

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction please?  I know one was a BCK and I have one ready for repainting, it is the rest I need to try and identify.

 

Many thanks!

Hi John,

 

You should find the info on this thread:-

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/28679-west-highland-coaching-stock-early-1980s/?p=301602

 

Thanks

[stovepipe]

A link back to page 1 of this thread?

 

I believe there were 14 Mk1 coaches painted in this livery - definite running numbers are from Parkin and P5 books.

 

Early Livery

TSOs 4050, 4494, 4610, 4623, 4643, BSO 9312

Late Livery

TSOs 3766, 3767, 4419, 4435, 4900, 4911, 4912, BCK 21241

 

Early ones with SC prefix and later ones with IC prefix and C suffix. There were two livery variations - early ones (1986) with cream panels lined with black, and green extending around the ends, and later ones with black ends, with the cream going to the corner. Lower lining was black with red next to the green. The two Bachmann special editions 39-000Y and 39-000Z are the later style, Model Rail 39-000X is the earlier style.

 

Harburn Hobbies are due to release a 3-pack fairly soon - a BCK and 2xTSOs, again the later style.

http://www.harburnhobbies.co.uk/acatalog/Latest_news.html

 

HTH

Edited October 22, 2015 by stovepipe

[Scottish Modeller]

A link back to page 1 of this thread?

 

HTH

HI there,

 

No - If you follow the link it takes you to a posting by Flood that includes the coach numbers.

 

Thanks

[stovepipe]

Yes......but not for the West Higland Green and Cream coaches

[John M Upton]

Thank for the assistance. I have now found the RailTec transfers sheet for the livery which also gives some coach numbers. Unfortunately in N gauge nobody produces a BSO so i may have to either butcher a BCK or alternatively just paint it as is and wave my modellers licence about a bit!

[mjkerr]

Unfortunately in N gauge nobody produces a BSO so i may have to either butcher a BCK or alternatively just paint it as is and wave my modellers licence about a bit!

Why not consider the BSK, it is as close as you can get

Remove the original corridor interior and replace with part from a TSO

[Bomag]

Why not consider the BSK, it is as close as you can get

Remove the original corridor interior and replace with part from a TSO

 

The BSK is not a good base for a BSO.That is not to say the BCK is close to a BSO either but at normal vewing distance (and with the first class stripe removed) I would say that most people would need to look twice to notice the difference.

 

The BSK has 4 seating bays, one loo and two sets of doors to the van area.

The BCK has 5 bays, two loos and a single set of van doors

The BSO has 5 bays, one loo and a single set of van doors

[John M Upton]

In the first instance I am going to go for the compromise of using a BCK as a BSO.  The five seating bay windows being the same is enough to make it visually acceptable when passing by the eyes in N gauge until someone makes a proper BSO.

 

It has to be said my ye ancient slightly tatty 1983 edition of Rolling Stock Recognition 1: Coaching Stock has proved invaluable!!!

[John M Upton]

A quick return to this topic as I now have dismantled mk1's in various stages of repainting liberally spread across my workbench.  I don't suppose anyone can confirm what colour the solebars of the green and cream mk1's were please?

 

I assume they are green as the blue/grey ones were blue but assumption is the mother of all cock ups....

[Bon Accord]

A quick return to this topic as I now have dismantled mk1's in various stages of repainting liberally spread across my workbench.  I don't suppose anyone can confirm what colour the solebars of the green and cream mk1's were please?

 

I assume they are green as the blue/grey ones were blue but assumption is the mother of all cock ups....

 

Just had a look at a few of my old photographs and they would appear to be black, this is confirmed by some shots from the first episode of "The train now departing" although granted it could just be a very thick layer of grime in both.

I've also had a look at my quartet of Model Rail West Highland L/E coaches and they also have black solebars.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Bon Accord

[John M Upton]

Thanks for that.  I shall leave them black then which saves a job.

 

And now back to the paint pots!!

[4firstimes]

The question of livery details of the ex Mark 1 coaches used on the West Highland Line has been raised many times and after over 20 years of research of the West Highland Line and the Mallaig extension I would like to provide the following information.

 

The first set was introduced in 1985 and withdrawn at the end of the 1987 season from which I believe that both sets where in use.

 

The set introduced in 1985 consisted of seven coaches in the formation of:

 

BSO mark 1 Diagram 183    9312

TSO mark 1 Diagram 93      4050, 4243, 4494,4610 ,4623, 4643

The livery of this set was ;-

Lettering in white as "West Highland"  with "ScotRail" and with the prefix Sc in front of the coach running numbers .

Each coach had a white "Scottie" position over the centre door on each side.

The roofs including the guttering was dark grey

Looking at the  coach sides , the livery top down was Green with  a Black lining , Cream with a black lining ,  LNER Green .

The solebars where black and the end of the coaches Green to match the main body. .

 

The  set introduced 1987 and consisted of 8 Coaches in the formation;-

BCK diagram 171 IC2124C ( I say the diagram number with caution as I think the interior was fitted out in  the second class formation as 4 seats per side and no arm rests (Diagram 171 had 12 first and 18 seconds, but diagram 172 had 12 first and 24 seconds)

TSO Diagram 93  IC3766c, IC3767c, IC4419c IC 4435c

        Diagram 89  IC4900c IC4911c, IC4912c

The livery on this set was as follows

Roof grey with green gutters

Again looking at the coach body from top to bottom

Green with a black lining  cream followed by a Black Lining and then a Red lining. The lower coach body LNER green with a black solebar.

The 1987 set had the Legend in white "West Highland Line" there was no Scottie of the ScotRail Legend. Although someone may prove me wrong as I have seen a couple of photgraphs with one of the coaches bearing the Scottie. The ends of the coach where black this time,

[John M Upton]

Thanks for the help everyone.  The first of four Graham Farish Mk1's to be repainted has just rolled off the workbench:

[John M Upton]

Four coaches now completed with the donor for a fifth in the post somewhere.  Three TSO's and a BCK masquerading as a BSO (when its going past you at a scale 40mph you won't notice - I hope!):

 

 

A tip - donors for repainting I found that cheap ex set Western Region cream and chocolate livery TSO's which seem to be around were the best as the window bars are already cream and that eliminates some of the tricker parts of the repaint.  There is another on the way.

[darren chpamn]

hi john who's decals did you use for your coaches

[John M Upton]

Fox Transfers F2217 for N scale. If it is OO scale you are doing it is pack F4217.

[young37215]

Resurrecting this thread as the heading perfectly describes what I am after. I intend re-numbering my various Bachmann Mk 1's to reflect the vacuum braked, steam heat rolling stock that was active on the WHL in the early 80's. Having duly purchased a couple of sets of transfers from Railtec (no's 3093 and 3094) I want to identify as many coaches that worked the WHL as I can. I have been attempting to identify individual coaches from various picture and video sources but with limited success. My 1982 Platform 5 Coaching Stock book shows the allocation of SCR coaching stock from which I can discern that WHL services will mostly have comprised Cowlairs allocated stock. Ideally I would have a picture to support any coach number I use; can anyone help?

 

Flood's 1985 allocations help to some extent although the period is slightly beyond what I seek in that many of the coaches had been upgraded to dual heat by then. I also notice that in 1985 a number of SK's were re-numbered to the 18xxx range; can anyone clarify what this re-numbering related to?

 

Thanks in advance to anyone able to assist

 

Rob

 

[Simon Bendall]

I also notice that in 1985 a number of SK's were re-numbered to the 18xxx range; can anyone clarify what this re-numbering related to?

 

Renumbered to avoid a number clash with Class 25s on TOPS, same reason the CKs were changed.

[ChrisH-UK]

Flood's 1985 allocations help to some extent although the period is slightly beyond what I seek in that many of the coaches had been upgraded to dual heat by then. I also notice that in 1985 a number of SK's were re-numbered to the 18xxx range; can anyone clarify what this re-numbering related to?

 

Rob

 

According to wikipedia "A major change came in May 1983 when prefix and suffix letters was abandoned, and any carriage that had the same number as another carriage or a locomotive was renumbered."

 

While I don't blindly trust wikipedia entries it does makes sense.

[keefer]

I think the CKs were renumbered as there were SR EMU coaches in the same range (mainly the older units like the SUBs etc. They had numbers with an S prefix and suffix).

The ones with BR numbering didn't affect anything else as they were in the 6xxxx or 7xxxx range

Edited June 16, 2018 by keefer

[Bomag]

 

 

Flood's 1985 allocations help to some extent although the period is slightly beyond what I seek in that many of the coaches had been upgraded to dual heat by then.

 

Thanks in advance to anyone able to assist

 

Rob

 

Apart from a few coaches such as RMBs etc very few Mk1s were converted to DH (or electric only) in the 1980's. The coaches in the early 1980's would have been replaced by cascaded DH stock rather being rebuilt.

[stovepipe]

Resurrecting this thread as the heading perfectly describes what I am after. I intend re-numbering my various Bachmann Mk 1's to reflect the vacuum braked, steam heat rolling stock that was active on the WHL in the early 80's. Having duly purchased a couple of sets of transfers from Railtec (no's 3093 and 3094) I want to identify as many coaches that worked the WHL as I can. I have been attempting to identify individual coaches from various picture and video sources but with limited success. My 1982 Platform 5 Coaching Stock book shows the allocation of SCR coaching stock from which I can discern that WHL services will mostly have comprised Cowlairs allocated stock. Ideally I would have a picture to support any coach number I use; can anyone help?

 

Flood's 1985 allocations help to some extent although the period is slightly beyond what I seek in that many of the coaches had been upgraded to dual heat by then. I also notice that in 1985 a number of SK's were re-numbered to the 18xxx range; can anyone clarify what this re-numbering related to?

 

Thanks in advance to anyone able to assist

 

Rob

I noted a few Mk1s at Queen Street in July 1982

 

25038,9294,14005

 

4176,4743,4751,9005

 

26089,4196,3883

 

Many, though not all, are prefixed Sc in the 1981 P5, I've not got the 1982 edition. From the coach working diagrams the vac-braked Mk1 stock visiting QS largely worked turn and turn about to Perth, Dundee and Oban/Fort William. The standard formation was 3 TSO and a BFK, with a BSOT added to the front of some services.

 

Another one from Jan 1983

37184+4767+4201+4205+14039, probably the 12.55 GQS - Oban

from http://www.britishrailways.net/rs/index.html

Edited June 17, 2018 by stovepipe

[young37215]

Thanks to everyone for their input which is much appreciated. I have sufficient SCR pre-fixed numbers to be working with for now, just 30 or so coaches to re-number to complete the exercise!

 

Any pictures of coaches with their number visible on WHL services still gratefully received. 

 

Rob