West Highland coaching stock early 1980's

[robertcwp]

On 18/06/2018 at 12:35, John M Upton said:

This is a personal favourite of mine and shows that not all coaches were SC prefixed...

37085 waits at Glenfinnan for a Fort William bound train to clear the single line with a mixed passenger & freight 1415 Fort William to Mallaig on 24th February 1984 by Jjm2009, on Flickr

BCK 21246 with a Midland Region prefix behind Eastfield white striper 37085 with (I think) an SK and one grey and one black fuel tanker in tow.  Very modellable!!

Second carriage is a TSO - roof vents are the clue.

[young37215]

On 13/10/2019 at 12:12, DavidCBroad said:

I don't remember ETH Mk2s on ordinary service trains until the 156 sprinters replaced them,

 

Mk2's were increasingly common on the WHL once the 37/4's and their ETH capabilities arrived. Rakes were usually a mix and match combination of the dual heat Mk1's and early build Mk2. Air conditioned Mk2's were restricted to the sleeper and the odd ball return trip between Fort William and Mallaig that incorporated a single air con from the sleeper set.  

 

The attached link takes you to a Flickr picture showing a 6 coach train comprised entirely of Mk2 stock taken in 1988.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by young37215
Correction

[Flood]

On 14/10/2019 at 10:53, young37215 said:

 

Mk2's were increasingly common on the WHL once the 37/4's and their ETH capabilities arrived. Rakes were usually a mix and match combination of the dual heat Mk1's and Mk2 A and B. Air conditioned Mk2's were restricted to the sleeper and the odd ball return trip between Fort William and Mallaig that incorporated a single air con from the sleeper set.  

 

The attached link takes you to a Flickr picture showing a 6 coach train comprised entirely of Mk2 stock taken in 1988.

 

 

I reckon those Mk2 coaches are vacuum braked ones so not Mk2A or Mk2B.

[woodenhead]

They have the centre doors so mk2/2A coaches.

 

Could be ex Glasgow-Edinburgh Mk2s

[young37215]

Given the need to mix and match with Mk1's, I agree with Flood that they are most likely vacum braked Mk2. The ETH/RETB era postdates my particular interest, and I have no idea where the Mk2's were cascaded from although would be interested to learn. If I had to guess then take your pick from any of the inter regional Scotrail services or East Anglia where the early Mk2's were being replaced with air conditioned Mk2's. 

[Flood]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

They have the centre doors so mk2/2A coaches.

 

Could be ex Glasgow-Edinburgh Mk2s

Nope, they can't be the ex Glasgow - Edinburgh stock because they had been painted in full ScotRail livery by then.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Flood

[thedman]

Think he is talking about the Mk2’s used by the push pull 27’s before the Mk3’s arrived!

[Flood]

37 minutes ago, thedman said:

Think he is talking about the Mk2’s used by the push pull 27’s before the Mk3’s arrived!

So am I.

 

5146, 5152, 5153, 5176 and 5197 were all painted in full ScotRail livery in 1985. Of the remainder 5126, 5130 and 5182 were at Norwich, 5142 and 5187 were at Bounds Green and 5147, 5160 and 5192 were at Heaton.

[Flood]

I just had a quick look at when the Mk2 vacuum braked stock arrived at Polmadie (the depot allocation for the West Highland) and it was the 4 wk period ending June 1986. The stock was reallocated from Craigentinny so would seem to be from the ex Edinburgh - Dundee services which went over to DMUs that May.

 

Mind you, the vast majority of stock allocated to the route was still Mk1 up until the 156s took over.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Flood

[thedman]

The Fife Circle 2G13 etc in 1992 was a VO Mk2 rake in Scotrail colours (reggie railways) with different branding.

 

The senior traction inspector at Edinburgh (LG) made noises of sourcing airbraked stock so that he could utilise 56’s and train drivers on them!

[GordonC]

11 hours ago, thedman said:

The Fife Circle 2G13 etc in 1992 was a VO Mk2 rake in Scotrail colours (reggie railways) with different branding.

 

The senior traction inspector at Edinburgh (LG) made noises of sourcing airbraked stock so that he could utilise 56’s and train drivers on them!

 

was it only used in summer or what was he planning on doing for heating?

[adb968008]

If theres doubts about numbering the WHL Green mk1’s this may help..

 

 

 

 

 

IC 4900 C

 

 

The bridge collapse at Inverness killed 37/4 loco haulage as the sprinters were roaded across to Muir of Ord, but iirc the green mk2 set continued as the only loco hauled service a while after. As a kid with my father we tripped up to the highlands biannually as 26’s turned to 37/47 turned to 156/158’s for a few years.

 

Next week I am taking my first trip to Inverness since the Highlands moved to 156’s from 37’s next week.. to see another end / new beginning..My daughter and I are taking  The HST on the Highland Chieftain from London full distance on tuesday, to see an LNER Azuma arrive on Wednesday at Inverness, as well as other planned locations.

 

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N06485/2019-10-23/detailed

 (Note its a 1Zxx, not a test train 3Zxx, so a staff or maybe press charter of some kind)... note the clue being an EMU operated service.

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by adb968008

[Bomag]

18 hours ago, adb968008 said:

If theres doubts about numbering the WHL Green mk1’s this may help..

 

 

 

 

 

IC 4900 C

 

 

The bridge collapse at Inverness killed 37/4 loco haulage as the sprinters were roaded across to Muir of Ord, but iirc the green mk2 set continued as the only loco hauled service a while after. As a kid with my father we tripped up to the highlands biannually as 26’s turned to 37/47 turned to 156/158’s for a few years.

 

Next week I am taking my first trip to Inverness since the Highlands moved to 156’s from 37’s next week.. to see another end / new beginning..My daughter and I are taking  The HST on the Highland Chieftain from London full distance on tuesday, to see an LNER Azuma arrive on Wednesday at Inverness, as well as other planned locations.

 

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N06485/2019-10-23/detailed

 (Note its a 1Zxx, not a test train 3Zxx, so a staff or maybe press charter of some kind)... note the clue being an EMU operated service.

 

 

The Ness bridge collapse if anything slightly delayed the sprinterisation of the Far north and Kyle lines. From the discussion at the time I think the first 156s should have started in May 1989, when I went up for a weekend in September 89 it was still Wall to Wall 37/4 operating from Dingwall.

[adb968008]

15 hours ago, Bomag said:

 

The Ness bridge collapse if anything slightly delayed the sprinterisation of the Far north and Kyle lines. From the discussion at the time I think the first 156s should have started in May 1989, when I went up for a weekend in September 89 it was still Wall to Wall 37/4 operating from Dingwall.

No delay, I was there to see it.

 

The 156’s themselves weren't ready, some even had final fitting done at Loch Gorm works. They didn't even have end unit numbers on, as they were supposed to be formed to 3 car units.

Each 156 in to Muir of Ord saw a mk2 or 37 roaded out back the other way. Though at least 1x37 went to MoR by road to replace one.

But sprinterisation of the highlands was done on time as was the bridge fixed within 1 year, for at least 3 political reasons, one was local pressure, the other was freight to Dounreay and third was resentment and distrust over the newly constructed bridge over Dornoch and it not including a rail element to it leading to belief they would try to close it.

 

Hence 156’s were there pdq, though Kyle stayed with 37 operation (the politics was about Far North afterall).

Edited October 20, 2019 by adb968008

[Bomag]

7 hours ago, adb968008 said:

No delay, I was there to see it.

 

The 156’s themselves weren't ready, some even had final fitting done at Loch Gorm works. They didn't even have end unit numbers on, as they were supposed to be formed to 3 car units.

Each 156 in to Muir of Ord saw a mk2 or 37 roaded out back the other way. Though at least 1x37 went to MoR by road to replace one.

But sprinterisation of the highlands was done on time as was the bridge fixed within 1 year, for at least 3 political reasons, one was local pressure, the other was freight to Dounreay and third was resentment and distrust over the newly constructed bridge over Dornoch and it not including a rail element to it leading to belief they would try to close it.

 

Hence 156’s were there pdq, though Kyle stayed with 37 operation (the politics was about Far North afterall).

 

If the bridge had not collapse there was a thought to send up 156's, including some from Crown Point, as a potential stop gap. In the end they obviously waited for the original ones to be available. It was probably a good thing as our 158's (and track work to increase line speed to 90) were running late.

 

As you point out the 37s stayed on the Kyle line for a bit longer.

[young37215]

In an effort to get the thread back on WHL coaching stock, when did stock for the WHL transfer from Cowlairs to Polmadie?

[Flood]

6 hours ago, young37215 said:

In an effort to get the thread back on WHL coaching stock, when did stock for the WHL transfer from Cowlairs to Polmadie?

All I can tell you for definite is that the October 1984 Railway Observer states the following official stock alterations dated 4 w/e 11th August 1984:

 

Allocations Sc.R

GC: 4417/30, 4704

PC: 3021, 4205/57,4755/63/7/70/2/5/8, 4902, 7201/21/38, 9000/1/4/15/6/7, 9271/3, 9364, 16200, 17059/83, 21238, 24964, 25008, 25448, 35060/2, 35116/23/4

 

As can be seen Cowlairs still had an allocation but the transfer of the Micro-Buffets to Polmadie suggests to me that the West Highland stock had at least begun to move to Polmadie if not completely.

Edit: 9009/10/4 were also moved from Cambridge to Polmadie at the same time.

 

By the time of the publication of the 1985 Platform 5 Coaching stock Pocket Book (dated 1st January 1985) Cowlairs seems to only have coaches 4210, 4213 and 4704 allocated. Of those shown above 4417 and 4430 had already been withdrawn with 4704 to follow within a few months.

Edited October 20, 2019 by Flood

[young37215]

Thanks for the information. My last P5 Coaching Stock book is 1984 which shows everything WHL still allocated to Cowlairs.