3D Printed Warwell... R&R 45t Crane, ICI Hopper, Biomass & others

[Wild Boar Fell]

Hello Everyone,

I have managed to progress the cranes match wagon this morning, there are a few compromises I have had to make, mainly regarding the wheel arches and well to fit OO gauge axles, but I am fairly happy with it. I also have a few more details to add to it and NEM pockets. I am wondering about using using the Bachmann GWR sprung buffers with these.

And for comparison

So onto the weight relieving bogies and crane carriage.

Regards,

Wild Boar Fell

[newbryford]

Hi WBF,

Great stuff.

I like the look of the GMC containers and JNA's

 

However - and I realise you're probably inundated with requests -  here's another suggestion for a 20' box that can fit either Hornby KFA's or Dapol FEA-B's - and if you're feeling brave, S-Kits GBRf FEA-S.

 

British Gypsum containers.

I think there's three types - Full height 7 ribs, 7/8 high 7 ribs with a horizontal panel along the top and 7/8 high 9 ribs, with a ribbed roof. Most carry a panel for the British Gypsum logo, but I guess the best way to do this is with thin plastic card.

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited July 21, 2013 by newbryford

[andygif]

hi wild boar fell, i've got what is supposed to be a R&R 45 ton in N,  but the its so wrong, chassis and match wagon wise.

I've got a lot of bits for redoing the match wagons & crane chassis(sourced a 4 wheel tender chassis), any chance if you put your models up for public printing you can do a 1:148 option as well as the OO?

[Wild Boar Fell]

Hello Everybody,

Thanks Mick and Andy for your post.

Mick, yes that is a good suggestion and one that I had considered a while back but prioritised the binliner over them especially as I couldn't get many photos or plans. It is certainly one I would like to do and should be fairly simple. I want to do some checks first but will look into them, I cannot say when they would be ready though.

 

Andy, I would love to try the crane in N but I don't think the printers would be very happy with me, I cannot say that they won't get produced, but it isn't me you need to talk nicely too.

 

Yesterday/ a bit of today I managed to get some work done on the relieving bogies, and here is a photo for comparison. I am struggling with the depth of components though so would be grateful of finding a shot looking down onto the bogie. Also does anyone know how these pivot as there appears to be a second pivot in the centre of the bogie?

Regards,

Wild Boar Fell

[andygif]

Andy, I would love to try the crane in N but I don't think the printers would be very happy with me, I cannot say that they won't get produced, but it isn't me you need to talk nicely too.

 

well its is really, they are your cad files.  Shapeways will only print whats been uploaded, so if you upload OO scale that's all you get.

OK, some of the finer detail wont probably print, I think the limit of resolution with FUD is about .5mm or .3mm if your lucky, so a couple of N inches.

I guess you could make the CAD files available (to buy), so that other could tinker with them and add or subtract detail depending on their chosen scale.

 

The only thing I've drawn and put on Shapeways so far is a single Ground Position Signal/light in N, working on a sprue of them to make it more cost effective, and I'm also trying to get some fiber optic feeds into them.  

I tend to draw full scale if i've got a proper engineering drawings to work from and then get  the CAD package to scale it down to 1:148 for me.

[Etched Pixels]

FUD will reproduce detail down to about 0.1-0.2mm - exactly what you get depends upon the structure.

[Tricky-CRS]

Matthews cryptic clue is ask me, Matthew and I have a agreement that I can have first dibs on his OO wagons in 1:148 scale.

The crane has been discussed briefly, but not confirmed as we are all ready working on 12 kits.

 

As Matthew has mentioned above I will be running a Kickstarter campaign in a few weeks to raise funds for up to 12 kits, if this campaign goes well, I may add this as my last stretch goal.

 

I will be giving more details here and on other forums when ready, but as my own thread.

 

 

[Wild Boar Fell]

Hello Andy,

Apologies if I caused any confusion there, I was referring to Richard at that point, (I really shouldn't reply so late in the evening!)

Good luck with your signals, have you posted photos of them before as I can only remember Mitchell's signals? I tend to draw 10 or 100 times scale as it is less confusing to figure out wall thickness's and other dimensions, but actual size is a wise idea, on the Claughton I have draw it 1000x scale to try and reduce the snapping problem. Unfortunately I have found it fairly difficult to modify wagons between scales, OO to N is the most simple, but working upwards from N to OO is not easy where surfaces aren't flat. This means that the Gannet will have to be completely re drawn for the OO gauge version.

(Is it really 12? wow, yes I suppose it is.)

 

Hope this helps,

Regards,

Wild Boar Fell 

[Wild Boar Fell]

Hello Everyone,

So far tonight I have managed to get some more progress done on the weight relieving bogies, they are now mostly done just awaiting smaller details and NEM pockets / buffer holes etc, the same is also true for the match wagons.

I am now wondering how I will manage to get this around 2nd/3rd radius without it looking silly, any suggestions (excluding rebuilding my layout, cannot get planning permission for that!).

Regards,

Wild Boar Fell

[Wild Boar Fell]

Any some more progress,

I have now made a start on the main crane carriage (this has been accelerated by only drawing 1 half and sketch up drawing the other, which is possible if you make it a component, this also means both sides are identical) I obviously have a lot more detail to add before I start on the body and jib though.

Here is how far I have now got.

Please note in the last render that they are not completely aligned vertically (but only 0.2mm out)

Regards,

Wild Boar Fell

[uax6]

RE getting the bogies around corners: The large bits that have the pivots to the crane I would think have some sort of radial movement around the bogie centres, so require to be seperate components that you fit to the bogies. You will also need to make the hole in them where the bogie 'headstock' passes through them a slot (so you can fit them seperately) and also slightly sloppy so that it can pivot around the bogie centre. I think the amount of slop you put in will be have to be a trial and error thing sadly. Also you will probably have to think about allowing some sort of 'slop' in the axles of the rigid crane underframe. This could be just using two centre axles that have the wheelsets mounted on a tube so that they can slide on the axle a tad.

 

Looking Good BTW (any chance of pre-grouping scottish wagons in 00?)

 

Andy G

[Wild Boar Fell]

Hello, thanks Andy

They are very good suggestions, I had wondered whether the centre of the bogies had a pivot and it explains alot, I shall modify my designs when I get a chance to give some movement around there if possible. I was also thinking on similar lines about some form of inside bearing on the crane carriage. This leads me to a quick question, does anyone have any photos of inside bearing axles (preferably romford ones) that you could post please as I am struggling to find any, also does anyone know how they fit, ie what diameter they are please? Anything would be a great help.

Thanks again and apologies for the rushed nature of my post.

Regards,

Wild Boar Fell

[uax6]

I wouldn't have thought that you will need inside bearings. The outer two axles can be normal outside bearing ones. The inner two came be the normal outside bearing axle, but with the two wheels removed, and mounted on a plastic tube that fits over the axle. The insulating bushes on the wheel discs are removed and the plastic tube subsituted. Easy! This works well on 6 wheeled coaches, so i can't see why it wouldn't work here. The only thing that I would do is give the hole in the back of the axle guards that take thetop hat bearings a bit of an oval shape so that the bearings can move up and down a tadge (but not left or right) as this will allow a tiny amount of (very) basic compensation which will be handy over less than perfect track.

 

 

Andy G

[Wild Boar Fell]

Hello Andy,

Thanks for you suggestions they sound a remarkably simple solution so I will probably give it a try, I have just had a check of the pivoting of the weight relieving bogies and it may not be too much of an issue as the images show. The gap is however 1mm large than scale at the minute though.

Cheers,

Wild Boar Fell

[Wild Boar Fell]

Hello Everyone, 

This evening I have managed to progress the Jib of the crane to the stage illustrated below, It is slow progress and still requires the lower bracing an pivots/ finer detailing but it has at least shown me how to go about it more efficiently.

Not too many pieces left after this,

Its not the simplest thing to draw as it converges in two plains meaning not everything is where you expect it to be.

Regards,

Wild Boar Fell 

[Wild Boar Fell]

Hello Everyone,

Not much progress to report really, I have managed to get a bit of work done on the rear section of the crane's cab, 

But I shall hopefully be having a large new (& not cheap) print arriving soon.

I shall post some photos when it turns up.

Regards,

Wild Boar Fell

[Talltim]

Having taken my own advice and read through the rest of your thread ( I had got about halfway before) I can see that you have got really good at this 3D malarkey! Some of your stock is tempting me to get back into British 4mil modelling.

I have one question, how do you weight your wagons? Is the print heavy enough on its own?

[pharrc20]

Hi WBF, well my Binliner containers are almost here. UPS tried to deliver them today but I have asked them to try and deliver to my girlfriends mum's address as I am out at work all day so fingers crossed I should have them in the next day or two all being well.

 

Cheers Paul

[richard60098]

Hi WBF, well my Binliner containers are almost here. UPS tried to deliver them today but I have asked them to try and deliver to my girlfriends mum's address as I am out at work all day so fingers crossed I should have them in the next day or two all being well.

 

Cheers Paul

 

Looking forward to seeing them buddy, will be doing a few myself at some stage but got others omn the go 1st

[Wild Boar Fell]

Hello Paul and Richard,

Good luck with getting the containers, thanks for your help with them. 

I hope the build goes well, and yours as well Richard.

You may be interested in RS4's excellent weathering blog where is is painting and going to weather a rake of the binliners and has devised an interesting way of painting them.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67720-examples-of-my-weathering/page-10

Regards,

Wild Boar Fell

 

Please note I am currently on holiday and having problems with emails, so I wont be able to reply to emails until next week.

[pharrc20]

I now have my three binliner containers and wow very nice they look indeed so huge pat on the back to WBF for doing all the hard work in creating the 3D model. I shall make a start on spraying the containers up shortly in the white and orange livery. Some of the next batch of containers will gain the additional cross-brace by using some plastic section so that both versions can be modelled. I am aiming to make up a rake of 8 loaded KFAs using the Hornby blue KFA and these containers and it will make a nice looking rake to run the club layouts at this years exhibition hopefully. So I best get cracking then!

 

Cheers Paul

[HSTFAN13]

Hi

Do you have any plans for a low level nuclear flask container that's used on the PFA Wagons?

Also do you have any plans for JMA Coal hoppers and JHA limestone wagons?

Sorry though of one more:

A brand new Drax biomass wagon

I'll add a picture

HSTFAN13

Edited August 8, 2013 by HSTFAN13

[dvdlcs]

Hello.

I was directed to this thread a few days ago and have spent the interim reading from the beginning to this point.

Very impressed with what you have achieved, and very inspirational too.

I like the idea of using the 3D printing process for the intricate work on the PXA and adding the slab sides afterwards. No point in paying for the 3D people to produce flat panels I guess.

[someone had a thread including scratch built PXAs from plasticard on RMWeb recently. I don't remember who, but it would be interesting to compare the relative time, effort and cost of the respective builds.]

Something that I did wonder about was the inclusion of buffers in the 3D prints; with the prevalence of working (sprung) buffers in OO, wouldn't you want to use some of the third-party components? I understand that you are producing these items primarily for yourself, which is presumably why you are producing complete body shells rather than a kit of parts or a "scratch aid".


Something that I have had kicking around in my mind for many years would be producing the O*A, S*A, V*A along with the Z*A conversions of the various 2 axle Speedlink wagons in N gauge.

This thought originated when the only RTR options were the OAA and VBA from Farish, plus the SAA, VCA and VDA in kit form from TPM. I realise that since then some of the other gaps (OBA, OCA, SPA) have been filled in but I believe there is still scope, particularly for the later-life conversions that may not be produced RTR. Plus I would be doing it for myself, rather than as a commercial venture.

My question for Wild Boar Fell is what would his advice be about producing components (sides, ends) using 3D printing, particularly in the smaller scale? Would this be simpler to draw? Would this be viable, particularly if the 3D people want one part per print, i.e. no sprues.

My thought was to produce them in this form - rather than a complete body shell - so that common parts can be mixed and matched, particularly for some of the conversions that were made. The Farish underframe (and Farish roofs where appropriate) would be used to complete the models.


Before anybody says "yes please, I'll have one/six/ten" please note that this thought has been knocking around in my head for at least a decade and has yet to come to fruition. Don't hold your breath! :-)


Thank you for any forthcoming response,



David.

[Etched Pixels]

Shapeways don't care about "one part per print" - in fact for FUD they positively encourage sprues or multiple parts by their pricing. As to buffers. In N for some stock I couldn't get the right buffers at acceptable prices in small volumes so I 3D print them but keep them as fittings. That way if I do ever break one I can just swap it.

 

I've done vans both as FUD prints and also as a WSF framework+roof with glued on etches. There are tradeoffs in each approach. The etched one definitely looks better and in any volume is cheaper to produce but needs more fiddling or cunning origami to get the right raised details. The FUD ones cost more, need more cleaning up and have a slightly poorer finish but they are one part and you can often get raised detail in one go. In both cases the very small details like torpedo vents I put holes in the 3D print and fit off the shelf plastic or white metal vents into them.

 

The main tip I'd give you is to start on a shortish wagon (cheaper). For longer vans in FUD IMHO it is worth putting some cross bracing into the body shell to strengthen it. Unlike plastics you don't have to worry about shrinkage messing the sides up.

 

Alan

[Talltim]

Presumable for models with large flat areas between ribs, like the wagons WBF has produced with the added plasticard sides, you gain from not having to clean up the stepping ridges as well as a cheaper print.