leopardml2341 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Help ! I've recently invested in an NCE powercab DCC controller and my first sound fitted loco is a Bachmann peak as above. When I start the sound (f1) and increase the speed of the loco, the loco is on the move for about 3-4 seconds before the brake release (?) sound is played followed by engine revs increase. This does not seem right and I wondered if it's something I'm doing / not doing that's causing this. The loco is 'straight out of the box' ie I've not been changing any settings - too new to this to start playing about yet. Can anyone help / offer advice etc., Not sure where I've read it but I seem to recall some problems like this with Bachmann locos reported elsewhere ? Thanks in advance. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassey jones Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I think you may find its a fault with the new V4 Loksound sound chip SWD are suppling Bachmann, it could be they have just copied the V3.5 sound files onto V4 chip? Your complain needs to go to Bachmann. The is another thread on here regarding the same problem with a Class 25 DS model from Bachmann, shocking really that they are still selling these DS models with faults...... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/50331-Bachmann-class-25-Bachmann-32-330ds-delayed-sound-effects/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 This type of glitch is very often caused by the original V3.5 sound file being put into a V4 chip without modification. There is no evidence to suggest that SWD are responsible for this. Bachmann will no doubt have purchased the sound file and have it loaded direct by the manufacturer. Do bear in mind that the ESU V4 Loksound was a long time in gestation and during that time there was no-one writing projects for it and the supply of the existing V3.5 dried up. I do agree that it seems wrong that Bachmann are apparently still supplying sound models like this but we are actually short of any evidence as to what has happened in your particular case. You first port of call is to your supplier to voice your opinions and to canvass for a remedy or a refund. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 You first port of call is to your supplier to voice your opinions and to canvass for a remedy or a refund. Thanks, but not quite so easy as popping round to see them - bought it from Cheltenham models @ Notts show and I live nowhere near Cheltenham - will give them a call though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaird Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Exactly the same problem with another D27 bought from Cheltenham at Notts show, no idea how to cure it as yet! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEngineShed Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Exactly the same problem with another D27 bought from Cheltenham at Notts show, no idea how to cure it as yet! Having the decoder reblown by someone like Howes might be the quickest option... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 Having the decoder reblown by someone like Howes might be the quickest option... Maybe - but also costs money ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEngineShed Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Maybe - but also costs money ? Very true but look at it from the standpoint of the money already invested. Say you spent 150 pounds on a sound Peak and the cost of a reblow is 15. For 10% more you can get something you are content with... Granted you shouldn't have to get a reblow, but it might be the lesser of two evils, if you can't find a fix by changing the CVs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted April 15, 2012 Author Share Posted April 15, 2012 Granted you shouldn't have to get a reblow, but it might be the lesser of two evils, if you can't find a fix by changing the CVs. It's back with Bachmann now.............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 ........and a little over 4 weeks later and having had to chase a response:- Thank you for your enquiry - I'm sorry about the problem with the model. There are some issues with ESU's writing of sound decoders and we have sent it to South West Digital for a rewrite of the sound project. We'll get it back to you once it is returned from them Less than encouraging I'd say ? But it does confirm that there are indeed soundfile problems but as I'm no dcc expert perhaps others can advise whether they (Bachmann) are just passing the problem on ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gridwatcher Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I would remove decoder, send to Howes and tell them what the problem is. It will be back in 2-3 days with nicer sounds and will work! Plug back in and you are away. Think about £12 for a re-blow from Bryan? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 I would remove decoder, send to Howes and tell them what the problem is. It will be back in 2-3 days with nicer sounds and will work! Plug back in and you are away. Think about £12 for a re-blow from Bryan? Thanks, will bear that in mind for any future problems - but loco is with Bachmann, because I did not want to compromise warranty, post #9 - and they say they've sent it back to SWD. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 Well.............another two weeks elapsed and still no sign of the loco being returned - my patience is beginning to wear thin I have today sent an eMail 'chaser' to Bachmann's Service (?) Dept and wait with interest for a response - my last one was ignored. Is this really how Bachmann would wish their reputation to be ? Update to follow.............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 On 15th May Bachmann said this:- your model was sent to SouthWest Digital for a rewrite of the sound project on the decoder. I am advised by them that it is being sent to us today: we would be expecting it tomorrow and it will therefore hopefully be in the post to you then. I'm sorry that this has taken longer than initially expected and I do understand your disappointment on this occasion. I am advised that the problem lies in ESU translation of sound projects from LokSound V3.5 to V4 and as the Class 40 would have a newbuild project there should not be a problem. The Class 40 reference is (finally) an answer to a question raised at the time of my original return of the 'peak' - I have one on advance order. .....and on the 16th they said this:- we received your model back today but unfortunately we are not happy with the sound project that has be written to it. We have therefore not sent it to you as it is and are pursuing the matter with our supplier South West Digital to resolve it as soon as possible. ......two weeks later and I'm still none the wiser, despite politely asking for weekly updates. Come on Bachmann, show that you do care about your customer base - after all without it you wouldn't be in business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 On 15th May Bachmann said this:- your model was sent to SouthWest Digital for a rewrite of the sound project on the decoder. I am advised by them that it is being sent to us today: we would be expecting it tomorrow and it will therefore hopefully be in the post to you then. I'm sorry that this has taken longer than initially expected and I do understand your disappointment on this occasion. I am advised that the problem lies in ESU translation of sound projects from LokSound V3.5 to V4 and as the Class 40 would have a newbuild project there should not be a problem. The Class 40 reference is (finally) an answer to a question raised at the time of my original return of the 'peak' - I have one on advance order. .....and on the 16th they said this:- we received your model back today but unfortunately we are not happy with the sound project that has be written to it. We have therefore not sent it to you as it is and are pursuing the matter with our supplier South West Digital to resolve it as soon as possible. ......two weeks later and I'm still none the wiser, despite politely asking for weekly updates. Come on Bachmann, show that you do care about your customer base - after all without it you wouldn't be in business. Perhaps you could get them to send it to Legomanbiffo, then Bachmann could hear what can be achieved with Lok V4.0 when it's done properly. Paul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted May 25, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 25, 2012 Would concur that Bif is 'the man' for sound. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I had the same with the Cl 25, gave it to Caroline at SWD last Warley and was back in 4 days and now has a wonderfull sound and pleased I paid for it.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tarifa Posted May 29, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 29, 2012 I may be late in picking up this thread but it would appear that the start delay on the Class 25 and 45 mentioned above is not activated. This is achieved by bit 2 in CV124 being activated. By default CV124 should be set to 24. There are 5 bits within this CV but by referreing to the decoder manual this is fully explained. This CV is only active when the sound is switched on probably by F1. I do know that when I coverted some of my V3.5 programmes to V4 there were a couple of "mistakes" in the conversion process and in one case it was instant start with the sound out of sync. I don't think one can blame Cheltenham models for the out of synchronised start this is Bachmann's QA not doing the job. I'm amazed that folk will part with their hard earned cash so quickly when a little thought and research would probably sort the problem at no financial cost. I'm assuming that most DCC folk have a decent system capable of reading CV's. HTH Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted May 29, 2012 Author Share Posted May 29, 2012 Thanks Mike - as I said in OP I'm new to DCC. Hence the basic question am I doing something wrong. I've since (sending the loco back to manuf'r) downloaded an ESU loksound manual but the explanation of CV124 function is a little unclear, especially without a loco to try it on, saying as it does to clear bit 3 of CV124 rather than bit 2 as you mention. I will of course try this out when the loco is returned. There would of course be no way of knowing this from the meagre instruction sheet supplied by Bachmann. Re your conversions, you say sound out of sync - the Loksound manual mentions this but gives the impression that would occur if bit 3 (maybe 2?) was cleared whereas you say 'activated' (set to 1?) and was the 'out of sync' to which you refer the same as the problem I experienced - delayed brake release and engine revs on stopping? I agree Cheltenham Models are not at fault - don't think that was suggested, but as for Bachmann's QA - if it was a simple as changing CV124, would they have had to return the loco to SWD to fix that? You say 'I'm amazed that folk will part with their hard earned cash so quickly when a little thought and research would probably sort the problem at no financial cost.' I take it that you're referring to the (perhaps unnecessary?) cost of a reblow, rather than buying the loco in the first palce ? I'm guessing that the NCE powercab that I have does have the ability to read CV's, I think I read the volume setting variable after discovering that Bachmann's suggested settings are wrong in the leaflet with the loco, but again I cannot verify at the moment without a loco. Kind Regards, Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tarifa Posted May 29, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 29, 2012 Hello Andy, I hope that my comments are useful and I will try to answer your queries. I have not broken down posts on this site before so be patient with my Q&A presentation. "I've since (sending the loco back to manuf'r) downloaded an ESU loksound manual but the explanation of CV124 function is a little unclear, especially without a loco to try it on, saying as it does to clear bit 3 of CV124 rather than bit 2 as you mention. I will of course try this out when the loco is returned." I appreciate you do not have a loco to experiment on but when you do you could experiment. The manual, 13.2 does refer to bit 3 as the start up delay bit, but this is incorrect. The CV tables list the various bits in CV124 and bit 2 not 3 is start up delay and should be set to 4. CV124 is similar to CV29 in that it is a multipule selection CV. "There would of course be no way of knowing this from the meagre instruction sheet supplied by Bachmann." There is a manual download on the ESU website www.esu.eu as you have already discovered. "Re your conversions, you say sound out of sync - the Loksound manual mentions this but gives the impression that would occur if bit 3 (maybe 2?) was cleared whereas you say 'activated' (set to 1?) and was the 'out of sync' to which you refer the same as the problem I experienced - delayed brake release and engine revs on stopping?" Activated is just my phrasiology, by that I mean bit 2 CV124 is set to 4, if this bit is cleared (0) then the sounds to the engine movemnet will be out of sync same as your experience. "I take it that you're referring to the (perhaps unnecessary?) cost of a reblow, rather than buying the loco in the first palce ?" Correct Andy, I'm referring to the cost of a re-blow. With the cost of P&P there is not much change from £25 no matter who the sound supplier is. Reading the posts above the concensus is to send your decoder to someone at great expense having already spent £130+ "I'm guessing that the NCE powercab that I have does have the ability to read CV's, I think I read the volume setting variable after discovering that Bachmann's suggested settings are wrong in the leaflet with the loco, but again I cannot verify at the moment without a loco." The NCE kit does have CV reading and writing abilities. The volume setting on the V4 decoder is done with CV63, but CV32 is an index CV and needs to be set to 1 before adjusting CV63. Regards Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted May 29, 2012 Author Share Posted May 29, 2012 Thanks Mike for your clarifications - 'Digital' and 'logic' terminology is always a potential trap - I now see what you mean because in effect setting bit 2 to logic '1' creates a 'Decimal' value of '4' in the range (of 32 decimal) covered by the 5 bits allocated to CV address 124. the default value of 24 being in fact bits 3 & 4 set to logic '1'. ..............and don't even mention Hexadecimal............. Again, becuase I currently have no means of testing this, one final question - When you say set bit 2 to logic 1 is that in addition to the default value, i.e. a new decimal value of 28 ? (or bits 2,3 & 4 set to logic 1, whichever you prefer.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaird Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I have read out cv124 which has a value of 20, so presumably bit 2=4 and bit4=16. D27 still starts without waiting for the brake to blow off!! John E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tarifa Posted May 30, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 30, 2012 Andy I think you will find the bits (bytes) are binnary progression numbers. By setting CV124 to 24, bit 2 (value) at 4 is included in the summation. The CV to my knowledge will not accept any greater values and operate correctly. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tarifa Posted May 30, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 30, 2012 I have read out cv124 which has a value of 20, so presumably bit 2=4 and bit4=16. D27 still starts without waiting for the brake to blow off!! John E In this case bit 2 would be set to 0. Try setting CV124 to 24. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaird Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 In this case bit 2 would be set to 0. Try setting CV124 to 24. Mike That would set bit 2=0 bit 3=8 and bit 4=16, disabling the prime mover startup delay?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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