Guest Tom F Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 But then you get the problem that there isn't a kit for everything - and anyway we all know that as soon as you complete your kit, a ready to run version will be announced anyway . . . . . . . . I'm lucky, as I have the joy of modelling 1950 when certain things were on their last legs such as the A6s and Q5s. The fact these disappeared before the mid 50s guarantees that they wouldn't be produced RTR. Famous last words! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted December 21, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2012 It is also clear from other posts that people do not want moulded handrails and will pay more for wire handrails. Err...... No! I would rather pay less in the shop and then enjoy doing a bit of work to a model (if necessary). I put a RTR diesel loco in fornt of a group of modellers yesterday and asked them to say if the cab door handrails were moulded or wire. We ended up prodding them with fingers to see if they could be moved before we could tell for certain. From 8 inches away we simply could not tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 I'd like to appeal for a bit of perspective please. Several people are running around grumbling about moulded handrails. The only place, of significance, that I've seen these are on the Duke's smoke deflectors and the vertical handrails on the rear of the tender and not on boiler handrails etc. That gained significance because of its appearance on the front of the catalogue. I've had another chat with Simon about it and I would like to reiterate my further reference that this isn't absolutely and finally determined and will be considered at a design meeting in the New Year to look at any cost/design issues; that's not to say there will be a change but Hornby have heard the opinions and will consider where they need to best aim the product. As we're now on the brink of the holidays I'll collate other common inputs and parcel them up for the New Year. The first substantial evidence of the new philosophy will be the 2-BIL and I'd like to ask people to hold on to look at that before making too many sweeping generalisations. I think it's fair that people have tabled reservations and they should remain as that until there's factual examples rather than supposition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
owentherail Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Good to see a Large Logo 56, (not suprised as i did my own earlier this year), shame its a same number as a Dapol/mainline one, a high 100 number would of been more prefrable, but i catwait for it (and some railroad MGR wagons that are still delayed) owen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 Simon's just sent over some images of early samples of the LMS CCT and LNER Fish van. Some separate components are omitted at this stage but the shape principles are there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Where's the 'cat that got the cream' emoticon? It looks as though these may be fairly well advanced; excellent news! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 The Facebook page linked to earlier in the thread (sorry I don't have the link) has a photo of a pre-production Lode Star with the correct early style inside cylinder casings, and I'd be inclined to believe this over the side-on images, which may well be mockups. I can't see any link to the pre-production Lode Star on Hornby's facebook page. Anyone got a specific link? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giz Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 The fish van isn't the version in the prototype photo at the start of this thread. It appears that they have gone for the earlier version as per the Dapol and Parkside ones rather than the later BR type that has never been available before that the photo showed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 So why keep bringing it up again? All Big4./ Region enthusiasts seem to say the same thing - maybe Hornby should make a model of every steam engine ever made, just to keep everyone happy? Whatever happened to a bit of patience? Why is there always such an amount of hostility and animosity towards Southern modellers when they point out that their area of interest is under-represented in the model trade? If you look at the results of most recent wishlist polls there are more votes for Southern items than any of the 'other' lines, all of which have considerably greater coverage. Anyway, despite that, I wish all modellers a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. JE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Moxy Posted December 21, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2012 The fish van isn't the version in the prototype photo at the start of this thread. If you look at the CCT, that is a different prototype too. Ah well, at least we know what the models will look like! Thanks Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 The fish van isn't the version in the prototype photo at the start of this thread. It appears that they have gone for the earlier version as per the Dapol and Parkside ones rather than the later BR type that has never been available before that the photo showed. Unless they are doing two versions.... Just like the press release shows two versions of the LMS CCTs, the one with the windows and flush sides and the later one with outside framing as the pre-production model shows, these were still being built in the fifties so did last well. Just a pity for me that I've got some of each built with a few actually finished and running. I do feel for Parkside these days. However I do do the correct buffers for both models plus alternative types if you wish. Happy days. Dave Franks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi-Jiff Kenobi Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I do feel slightly put out when reading that the LNER is well catered for, as several of the recent introductions are Thompson or Peppercorn eras, which are much too late for me! On the other hand, with an original P2 in the offing, I'm in a very charitable mood right now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted December 21, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2012 This thread is getting monotonous. I'll just remind folk just how challenging things were 25 years or so back. Merry festive season to you all. Drake @ 36E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Why is there always such an amount of hostility and animosity towards Southern modellers when they point out that their area of interest is under-represented in the model trade? If you look at the results of most recent wishlist polls there are more votes for Southern items than any of the 'other' lines, all of which have considerably greater coverage. I don't think there's a huge amount of hostility per se, although some comments do come a bit close to it. But I do also think there are some very good reasons why the Southern is under-represented in RTR, particularly when it comes to Hornby, and it does tend to put people's backs up a bit when Southern modellers appear unwilling to recognise that and give the impression that they feel unfairly discriminated against. The reality is that the Southern was by far the smallest of the four grouped companies, and (with the possible exception of the Atlantic Coast Express and the Belles) had very few trains that could be considered famous or glamorous by comparison with the other three. That may not be an issue for the hobbyist modeller of the likes found here on RMweb, but it does significantly limit the Southern's appeal to the toy and collector markets. And, whether we like it or not, another reality is that a significant part of Hornby's income comes from those customers. So, for Hornby, Southern prototypes are always likely to have less commercial appeal than those of the other Big 4 companies or BR regions. That's not necessarily the case for Bachmann and Dapol, as they're more focussed on the hobbyist customer and don't have such a strong presence in the toy market. But this is a thread about Hornby, so it's not unreasonable to take that into account. It doesn't mean that Hornby never do Southern stuff, of course, but I am pretty sure that it's always likely to have less of an emphasis in their range than maybe people here would like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2012 This thread is getting monotonous. I'll just remind folk just how challenging things were 25 years or so back. Merry festive season to you all. Drake @ 36E They should try 40 years - which is how long I have been waiting for an r-t-r GW 8-coupled tank engine (although the Cotswold kit had a lot to commend it). Simple fact is that for anyone who can or who cares to remember back not all that many years we now live in an age of amazing r-t-r plenty both in quantity and detail realism and arguably at realistic price levels (that depends on your personal view of 'realistic of course). The r-t-r manufacturers are businesses, the model shop commissioners are businesses, and so are the museum commissioners - whatever one might think museums ought to be. But - whichever they are - bringing a model to market involves investment and careful consideration of its commercial viability - if they don't get those things right they stand a chance of vanishing from the scene, and that would be our loss. Equally I suppose when it comes down to it if we are so keen to have a particular loco modelled and are absolutely convinced of its commercial viability we could put our money where our mouths are and knock on Dapol Dave's door (to give an example) in search of a contract. And unless we are prepared to do that, or form a collective or whatever to do it, then we will have to accept that others will make the decision on our behalf - albeit hopefully influenced by our requests and views. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn-on-the-platform Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Why is there always such an amount of hostility and animosity towards Southern modellers when they point out that their area of interest is under-represented in the model trade? If you look at the results of most recent wishlist polls there are more votes for Southern items than any of the 'other' lines, all of which have considerably greater coverage. Anyway, despite that, I wish all modellers a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. JE Mainly because people don't believe it to be true as everyone looks at it differently. Earlier on this thread I saw someone list all the GWR releases from Hornby in the last few years - they included the 28xx and 38xx, and all the heavy tanks as separate releases so it looks like the GWR are very well represented, though I don't really consider this fair as the 28xx and 38xx are very similar as are the 42xx and 52xx, with the 72xx not too much different either. People also forget that the rebuilt Bulleids don't apply to Southern Railway modellers, and it wasn't too long ago that we had these, the T9s, Schools and the M7s to get excited about. There was a lot of talk about how well us Southerners were doing at the time. I would agree that the LNER still isn't too well catered for as Obi-Jiff has pointed out, many of the LNER releases are of later designs. My point about the GWR also applies to the LNER too, as there are 2, and soon to be 3 2-8-0s which are pretty similar to the untrained eye (sorry for the sweeping statement LNER fans!) and to the less knowledgeable, there may not be much immediate difference between an A2 and an A1. Whilst I would never turn down a new Southern loco, I wouldn't complain too much about us being hard done by, particularly for those who model the Western section. Nobody wins when people start complaining about how hard done by your region and depending on how you look at the situation, anyone can claim that they are under-represented. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 The images of the vans posted by Andy Y (post #797) show the time-honoured way of moulding door handles on rolling stock, which are perfectly acceptable to the majority of modellers I should think. It always puzzled me why Hornby chose to buck the trend, unlike other manufacturers, and fit separate plastic door handles and grab handles on its recent coaches. They must have been expensive to fit and, in anycase, were overscale and far too fragile. Long verticle grab handles that take up over half a coach or van side are a different matter; they should be wire, as they give a fine scale look to a model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Why is there always such an amount of hostility and animosity towards Southern modellers when they point out that their area of interest is under-represented in the model trade?............. I smiled when I read this. Whilst I am perfectly aware of the Southern Region situation, a Martian could be forgiven for thinking all he needed was a bucket load of Bullied Pacifics, a couple of Standard Fives and a Mickey Mouse Tank if he has read the albums, watched the videos and done the jigsaw! Oh aye, and an S15. One of life's puzzles is why it isnt already available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I think we will have to wait and see how design clever works out and Bachmanns version of it (did anybody notice the moulded hand rails on the C class)? As long as the loco looks right and more importantly I can run it and handle it without bits dropping off/breaking and I don't have to straighten/refit badly fitted parts then I would be happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Just to quickly put my tuppence worth in on the Design Clever/moulded handrails thing. The deflectors on the DoG will be seperate mouldings I presume? Were the real things similar enough to those fitted to the Britannias and Clans? If so then Hornby may be doing exactly the right thing. They have an existing high fidelity part they can fit for the non Railroad version, and a new tooling with moulded handrails that can be used for the Railroad version AND potentially help them produce a Railroad Britannia in future. We presumably also now have a "lo fi" BR standard tender chassis as a result of this, which will look better than the ex tender drive under the 9F and probably cheaper to manufacture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I do feel slightly put out when reading that the LNER is well catered for, as several of the recent introductions are Thompson or Peppercorn eras, which are much too late for me! Why is there always such an amount of hostility and animosity towards Southern modellers when they point out that their area of interest is under-represented in the model trade? I'm interested in both areas but while I feel both posters' pain, I feel a bit differently. Here's why: I think the Southern has been pretty generously treated recently; M7, T9, King Arthur, a delightful Schools, WC/BB, rebuilt WC/BB, rebuilt MN, Q1, exquisite Maunsells, VEP (admittedly not a great model), Brighton Belle, and now a 2BIL. That's just passenger stuff off the top of my head, and just from Hornby. I think that's a pretty amazing list. And whereas bits of the LNER have also been generously treated, "my" bit (vaguely M&GN/rural western East Anglia/Fenland) much less so. But even if I'm not really able to use express Pacifics or very heavy freight engines, I've still had not one but two sets of non-corridor stock, and the extraordinarily good B17 following hard on the heels of the delightful L1 and B1. With an Ivatt 4MT from Bachmann and some Hornby Period III Staniers (and a few Hornby Gresley corridors, shape issues notwithstanding), that gives me a sporting chance of some creative play with very little effort. However, to make it actually look right, I'd wish for at least a D16 and either a J15 or J17 (and a 6-wheeled BZ brake van would be a fantastic addition! There's one at the GCR, ideal for measuring...). An updated B12 would be pretty helpful, too. Other people are obsessed with the ex-NER parts of the LNER, or Scotland. And they could also complain (depending on which bits, obviously...). Er: sorry, this has morphed into a bit of a wishlist. Paul Edit: to correct my own idiocy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I give up. JE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Its good to see that SK is only too willing to send in sample photos of the fish vans (not sure how interactive Hornby have been with RMWeb in the past) but if this is the turning of a new leaf that can only be a good thing. I cant help but think that there could be an element of separately fitted parts snobbery here when a really well turned out model with finely judged moulded detail could be a good thing. How often do you really appreciate those separately fitted hand rails or door handles? (and be honest!) Not very often. Key details yes I can see the value but where the detail is not for example all important to the face of a model are they necessary? Looking at the samples above the detail there is plenty enough for me and provided we dont see the blobs of the 1970s mouldings then the latest tooling could well be a good thing and I hate losing those tiny parts on my carpet anyway when doing a bit of modelling work If the model still catches the essence and feel of the prototype sans added detailing parts then I cant see a down side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 The fish van isn't the version in the prototype photo at the start of this thread. It appears that they have gone for the earlier version as per the Dapol and Parkside ones rather than the later BR type that has never been available before that the photo showed. It's a real shame that Hornby have decided to duplicate the type that has already been covered (twice) rather than going for a similar but different version. I think it's unlikely that Hornby will do two different versions. The later type was some 6" narrower than the early one and had different brakegear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted December 21, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2012 Ah well, at least we know what the models will look like! Maybe, but if they are engineering prototypes or pre-production test shots then that's what they might look like - there may still be time to make changes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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