Great British Locomotives

[Il Grifone]

Thanks for the info, Sarahagain.  Nice to know that the coaches were preserved, the Caley Coaches site says they are on the  Bo'ness railway. Interesting that they were genuine Caledonian railway, looks as if some of that type had survived into BR days.  Had wondered if they were a later coach repainted, but good that the genuine article had been done up for those last railtours.

 

Also, didn't know that the Triang Caledonian coaches for the single were specially done, never really looked at them closely. I suppose that rather like the Hornby LNER Thompson coaches the sides just had to fit the standard mk1 bits.  Somewhere I've seen a photo of a Grampian 12 wheel coach in crimson and cream behind a Clan. (Must have been at the very end of the coach's service life).  Just found a drawing of the 12 wheel coach in Jenkinson/Campling book; oddly they don't give it's length but the drawing is 260 mm and therefore 65' so the Triang one could be about scale length.  Different roof and bogies, perhaps?

 

The Caley coaches kits look very impressive, might look a bit too fine scale behind a GBL single though!   Same price on their site and e-bay.

 

cheers,

Bill

 

They are indeed sides fitted to the standard Mk I moulding - new bogies ends and underframe are required - you might just get away with the roof. The Caley site confirms the 65 foot length of the Grampian stock and has drawings   http://www.caley.com/D95B.php. A Mk I is 63' 6" over headstocks, so the Tri-ang coaches are about 6mm short - I'm not sure how accurate the Tri-ang moulding is - seeing how far out their windows are. Again the Caley site states that the Grampians survived to 1955.

[Smiffy2]

We are promised a few more and there are quite a few R-T-R models left to copy (a B12 seems a possibility? or perhaps since it's been around forever they think everyone has got one already?)

To wit:

 

Rocket, J39, N Class, Royal Scot, 57xx.

And a Western.

And if you read Weathering Man's posts you will see that some are already in the pipeline.

 

Apart from Locomotion they've not lost one yet.

[46256]

To wit:

 

Rocket, J39, N Class, Royal Scot, 57xx.

And a Western.

And if you read Weathering Man's posts you will see that some are already in the pipeline.

 

Apart from Locomotion they've not lost one yet.

All but the rocket will be making further dents in the family finances....great escape....probably forefathers of network rail engineers who worked out the length of the tunnels...hence missing the forest and safety....and please Gordon ignore the friendly gestapo man at the railway station...never trust a man in a leather raincoat

[railroadbill]

Hi TheWeatheringMan,  it was only a joke, honest!!!   (sob sob grovel grovel etc.)        It is a well known fact that brunswick green is of course the only true colour for quality steam locomotives, (apart from the Caledonian single which looks kinda cute in light blue and the midland compound which would look just daft in anything but maroon or whatever that red shade is actually called). 

 

Actually, the Lofton division of BR (that's Bill's Railway) does have a blue diesel link.  This is a handful of chipped locos that also run on a friend's dcc layout from time to time. So in dcc mode  the layout's gone through a bit of a time warp but only into early tops era - this puts a useful gap between dcc and all the other dc stuff (anything steam, plus early short lived diesels which would be long gone by then) so both types won't be on the tracks at the same time, depending on which controllers are being used.  However, not absolutely all blue locos are in the blue era (hymek, early 26) or green locos (47 and 40) necessarily in green era, authentically of course.

 

Regards  Bill

[railroadbill]

They are indeed sides fitted to the standard Mk I moulding - new bogies ends and underframe are required - you might just get away with the roof. The Caley site confirms the 65 foot length of the Grampian stock and has drawings   http://www.caley.com/D95B.php. A Mk I is 63' 6" over headstocks, so the Tri-ang coaches are about 6mm short - I'm not sure how accurate the Tri-ang moulding is - seeing how far out their windows are. Again the Caley site states that the Grampians survived to 1955.

Many thanks for that. I'm thinking that the Caledonian single will just have to be motorised and therefore a couple of Caley liveried coaches would be good for it to pull. Modifying the Triang ones could work but as you say the windows may be too wrong, needing so much work that a kit would be actually easier! But I'd like to leave the single loco body as it is (as my GBL one has a very good finish), therefore stock that fits in with that "retro triang" standard (ie the original triang coaches) could be best?

 

I did look at 57' LMS coaches (got some Mainline ones) as they look similar to the Caledonian 57' ones but the LMS ones have a blank panel in the middle of the corridor side windows whereas the Caley ones have long windows so  again too much cutting would be needed. Also I think the corridor in the brake coach is on the other side to the Caley one. So close but...

 

H'mm.  I just really like the Caledonian coach livery.

 

I'll go back to working on motorising GBL deltic and have another think.

[BernardTPM]

The Mainline/Bachmann PI LMS coaches are in near Caledonian livery in their 'Railway Children' set. The compartment side is as near as makes no odds on the Composite and they're even the right length. Although a Composite of the same style was built, none were preserved, but as a 'near enough' they wouldn't be bad. The Triang/GBL loco isn't exactly 100% after all. There is/was an article somewhere on RM Web on improving the Hornby Grampians, retaining the best bits (the sides in the recentish version).

[railroadbill]

Green green my world is green.

 

 

Following on from posts about green...

.

I've found 4 panels I used some time ago to compare 4 different paints, for use as BR brunswick green. 

 

Railmatch, Humbrol (this was from their railway colours as was, not the current ones), Cherry paints (the name seems to be listed under Precision paints now, but just for road vehicles) and Halfords Brooklands  green, the only acrylic paint in the samples.  May not display very well on a computer monitor but each colour imho had differences.

 

I did this to see how close the Halfords colour was to the others. The Humbrol and Railmatch seemed closest to each other and the darkest, the Cherry was a bit yellower and lighter and the Halfords more of a mid green. I have used the Halfords spray as I got a smooth finish with it, and when finally coated with matt varnish (testors dullcote on a hot day) the final colour wasn't bad compared to various commercial r-t-r green locos where the exact colour seems to have been open to interpretation over the years.

 

Anyone have a favourite paint they'd recommend for BR green?  (Apologies if that's already been covered  in other threads!)

[railroadbill]

The Mainline/Bachmann PI LMS coaches are in near Caledonian livery in their 'Railway Children' set. The compartment side is as near as makes no odds on the Composite and they're even the right length. Although a Composite of the same style was built, none were preserved, but as a 'near enough' they wouldn't be bad. The Triang/GBL loco isn't exactly 100% after all. There is/was an article somewhere on RM Web on improving the Hornby Grampians, retaining the best bits (the sides in the recentish version).

Thanks very much Bernard, as you say "near enough" will suit  the GBL loco ok. I'll look for the thread on Grampian coaches. Agree about the compartment side on the LMS coach, thought I was in with a chance till I turned it over to look at the corridor side.  But close.

 

Since the 2 full sized 57' Caley coaches were repainted to run in railtours in early 60s, with a bit of licence models  could run in "railtour" trains on the layout behind other locos as well etc.   Possibilities here. 

 

 

***of course if the Railway Children set contained a Jenny Agutter figure, I'll get one - but you knew I'd say that*** 

[BernardTPM]

Didn't these Tri-ang coach sides end up in psuedo Great Western liveries at some point as well, during the very toy like early 1970s?

In 1972 they appeared in GWR chocolate and cream, Southern Railway green and LMS fully lined livery. The last was technically correct, of course as the CR became part of the LMS.

[Il Grifone]

By 'everyone', I meant just that, not just us railway modellers!  

 

If anyone local is interested, Tilbury Asda has one 'CR 123' and Greenhithe had three this lunchtime. (The Kent customers are obviously saving their pennies for the class C!)

 

The LMS version of the CR coaches would have looked a lot better with the correct gold/yellow, black, gold/yellow lining rather than the plain yellow they were adorned with.

 

The less said about the GWR and SR versions the better! (not as bad as LMS, GWR and SR Mk Is though).

Edited January 3, 2015 by Il Grifone

[Londontram]

I brought one of the GBL singles as being a Caley modeler it seemed silly not too but already having a Hornby Caley single I didn't really need another but thought it might come in handy for something. I'm still working on the two T9 into Dunalastair I and III conversions that some of you have been following and Jason (JCL of this parish) has drawn me up some domes and chimneys for various Caley loco classes ready to 3D print so I'll be ordering some from shapeways as soon as post Christmas funds permit.

     Any way back to the GBL single I had a thought. Designed at the same time the single and the Caley 0-6-0 jumbo share a number of features so I had the idea that the GBL single could provide a few parts to start a jumbo build so the single was striped down to the basics with a razor saw and a previously acquired for this purpose Bachmann pannier chassis is being used for the moving bits. The singles running plate was cleaned up and the front steps were removed and using a razor saw was shortened by about 10mm to an overall length of 106mm the join will be hidden under the smoke box and sand boxes.

    Because of the splashers being molded as part of the boiler this was discarded and a new piece of tube will be used though not before the dome was removed from the old boiler which will be used on the new boiler.

    The Bachmann chassis was shortened at the rear and the sand boxes removed and the brake rodding altered to match the early jumbos outside brake rodding. I have two spare Triang tenders one already fitted with Romford wheels I could have used but decided having the GBL one to modify it to one of the early under slung spring tenders by cutting away the chassis sides which will be replaced with new plasticard ones but not before the axle boxes were removed to be reused on the new sides, the tender top will be OK as is, in the pictures its sat on a set of Romford wheels which along with pin point bearings will be used on this model.

     So that's about it, it might seem an expensive way to start a jumbo but if you think of the cost of fittings like chimneys and domes etc. then the cost of the single is negligible in the grand scheme of things and at least I know the parts are the right size and shape.

    Any way here's a few pictures of it just sat together to show how it will look. Luckily I have a copy of the Caledonian jumbo book which as well as all the dimensions has a wealth of quality pictures.

   Pictures one and two show the now shortened running plate with the shortened smoke box and cab sat in the relative final positions

The next a look at the tube that will become the new boiler with the GBL dome

This shot shows the loco sat on the holy bible the Caledonian jumbo book, this and previous pictures show what a detailed book this is

and the book its self

Final picture is of an early jumbo and shows the tender with the under slung springs

   Thanks for looking Steve

[Ben Alder]

The Mainline/Bachmann PI LMS coaches are in near Caledonian livery in their 'Railway Children' set. The compartment side is as near as makes no odds on the Composite and they're even the right length. Although a Composite of the same style was built, none were preserved, but as a 'near enough' they wouldn't be bad. The Triang/GBL loco isn't exactly 100% after all. There is/was an article somewhere on RM Web on improving the Hornby Grampians, retaining the best bits (the sides in the recentish version).

 

Here is my take on them- still haven't got round to replacing the bogies!

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/blog/62/entry-3028-the-preserved-caledonian-coaches/

[kingfisher24]

Does anyone know when the secr loco will be in the shops as havnt seen any yet?

[Wolf27]

Should be around the 28th Jan, after the Peak which is due out on the 14th.

 

Cheers

 

Shane

[Theo C. Cupier]

After not stocking the series for a while, surprisingly the Sainsbury store at Frome had a CR123 on the shelf yesterday evening.  The card and magazine were very tatty, bent and battered, but the model looked to be in good condition.

[railroadbill]

 

 

 

 

The problem we have is no matter what sound, well thought our reasoning any of us give, we are not the target market.  Always thought the first Tri-ang black B12 looked smart though, surprised it never appeared as a Railroad item at least.

B12 would indeed be good.

[railroadbill]

In 1972 they appeared in GWR chocolate and cream, Southern Railway green and LMS fully lined livery. The last was technically correct, of course as the CR became part of the LMS.

Were all these versions  the same coach with same sides (and different decoration) or were the coach sides actually different?  

 

The coach sides in the later version used by Ben Alder in his excellent conversion post #4035 look good.

[Londontram]

Were all these versions  the same coach with same sides (and different decoration) or were the coach sides actually different?  

 

The coach sides in the later version used by Ben Alder in his excellent conversion post #4035 look good.

I think you'll find there all the same coach  just different paint jobs this was Triang-Hornby after all. Steve

 

PS just had a tot up and found I have 10 Triang-Hornby clerestory coaches to be chopped into Caley 45 foot coaches and seven of the large Caledonian Grampian ones to cut and shut as well plus about seven 6 wheel and 45 foot coach etches on the to do list Oh my goodness I'd better get a building plan together.

[railroadbill]

Hi Bill,

Grovelling and explanation accepted !!!.

 

Have got your PM re Lima gears.

Cant reply properly at moment as this tablet keyboard will not stay on screen when replying to messages and some posts - it works ok on everything else. Will need to reply from workshop pc a bit later and then organise getting copies theron to you.

 

Regards

Hi TheWeatheringMan,

 

Glad green grovelling accepted arf arf!

 

Thanks for lima gears info, as and when, the thread on Lima power bogies looked useful. This GBL thing has got me into going through the old bits and pieces boxes and finding diesel bogies, chassis etc that can perhaps be recycled and made to power locos.

Looks like there's an interest in remotoring Lima drive units to run better so worth a go.

What I've found is with a bit of TLC old tender drives and chassis (also Hornby and Airfix) that had only run badly in the past could be made to run much better than I expected.

Because current locos like centre motor/flywheels/all wheel drive diesels  run very reliably I'd left the older stuff to one side but now getting older designs to run satisfactorily  as well  looks fun.  So apart from modelling the full size railway, "retro modelling" looks back at the interesting history of model railways - and it's cheaper!  

So from Londontram's Jumbo scale conversion or Sarahagain's motorised tri-ang replica  (using the same loco!) GBL certainly enables a wide spectrum of railway modelling!

 

Bill

 

**tablets? They're what you get from the chemists, aren't they?**

[railroadbill]

I think you'll find there all the same coach  just different paint jobs this was Triang-Hornby after all. Steve

 

PS just had a tot up and found I have 10 Triang-Hornby clerestory coaches to be chopped into Caley 45 foot coaches and seven of the large Caledonian Grampian ones to cut and shut as well plus about seven 6 wheel and 45 foot coach etches on the to do list Oh my goodness I'd better get a building plan together.

Thanks for that, thought it was probably the case but I did have a couple of Thompson teak coaches that were different sides fitted into mk1 roof/ends.

 

Only got 3 clerestory coaches (teak ones) which I was going to put on e-bay but then kept them to run behind Hornby P2.  More teak needed....

 

GBL has just added to a vast number of potential projects, still haven't finished turntable etc.etc.

 

Actually the old tri-ang coaches as a cheap basis for conversion might be worth looking out for at exhibitions etc. Bought a Tri-ang SR baggage van for £5, Wrenn ccts for same (all tatty) and repainted, numbered, new wheels etc. look and run ok, have the vehicle you need for much less than current r-t-r prices as well.

[Brit70053]

Should be around the 28th Jan, after the Peak which is due out on the 14th.

 

Cheers

 

Shane

I stand to be corrected, but shouldn't the Peak be available this coming Wednesday 7th January and the C class 2 weeks later on the 21st?

I'm working these dates forward from the publication date of 123 which was Christmas Eve, now a fading memory being almost 2 weeks ago.

 

Regards,

 

                John

[Smiffy2]

Agreed, Peak on the 7th, C Class on the 21st.

[Il Grifone]

Were all these versions  the same coach with same sides (and different decoration) or were the coach sides actually different?  

 

The coach sides in the later version used by Ben Alder in his excellent conversion post #4035 look good.

 

They were basically the same, but the original version had embossed CR (and the number IIRC) between the waist mouldings and transfers for the CR emblems.

[Wolf27]

I stand to be corrected, but shouldn't the Peak be available this coming Wednesday 7th January and the C class 2 weeks later on the 21st?

I'm working these dates forward from the publication date of 123 which was Christmas Eve, now a fading memory being almost 2 weeks ago.

 

Regards,

 

                John

Yes you are right, forgot the Caley came out just before Christmas.

 

Cheers

 

Shane

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Hi John,

New year's greetings!  Agree about SarahAgain's 123 motorisation, didn't realise that the Triang chassis had the motor horizontal in the smokebox.  Got a Lima motor bogie (co-co) that could fit into a Peak bogie, have to see how much of the GBL Peak bogie is usable.  Blue is a change from all that green!  :-)

 

take care,

Bill

 

The Tri-ang Singles used the XT.60 motor, which was designed for the TT 3mm/ft scale range (the worm is different on the Xt.60 from the standard TT motors...). It is smaller than the X.04 stndard OO Gauge motor.