RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted December 31, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2013 Thanks Ian, I wonder which end of the scale you had in mind: Less than zero?! (Excuse old Elvis Costello reference.) Happy New Year! Colin So cool it's too low for zero Mike. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 The weather has been so cold and damp that finishing the 4 SUB's paintwork has been a little slow. The transfers are finally sealed in under a coat of matt varnish and some weathering has been done to the roofs and ends. The matt finish and weathering of the ends shows up just how much detail there is on these ends. The MU cables are made and just need a bit of paint before fitting. The side buffers will be set level and secured with some Kwik-Fix multi-purpose glue. There was a lot of bother this week with the Black Beetle motor bogie which had come off my old Kirk 2 BIL. It jammed up somehow and no amount of persuasion would get the running quality to even the minimum acceptable. So the motor bogie was swapped with that of my first EMU, the BR 2 HAP. Running became a little better, but still lethargic. I then bought a new Bachmann 36-553 decoder to replace the Gaugemaster ones that had been tried before. Result: instant success- phew! I can now get on with glazing the unit etc, etc.. Colin 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAB Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Fabulous - no other word for it! Best wishes, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I've been following each and every step of your work here Colin and I have to say I've found this build hugely inspirational - totally top-notch work on every level. Thanks for taking the trouble to post step-by-step updates along the way, there's always plenty to learn from all of your threads (layout included of course). Well I have one question if I may: How do you couple your units (practically rather than cosmetically)? In a few pictures I think I see a length of wire with a loop at the outside end. I guess the inside end is attached to the bogie? Do you simply drop the loop over an upright wire attached to the bogie of the adjacent carriage? Thanks Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Absolutely smashing work Colin, really top notch! The standard you have achieved is a credit to the model. Ironically, I am going to use the Black Beetle/36-553 combo on my Trans - Pennine, so could I ask if there were any wiring issues etc with your set up or is there anything I need to be aware of before this section of work commences? Perhaps a few photo's of the bogie installation if not too late? Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted January 5, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2014 Lovely work there Colin. Although it might be a late now, I can't praise enough the 'Lo-Rider' motor bogie kit from http://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/ . listed in the 'bogies' section. Chris Gibbons had produced an excellent piece of kit. They're quite the most smooth runners, with reasonable power, that I've ever run. Way,way better than a 'Spud'. The running is as good as, in my view slightly superior to the BB. Also it runs very quietly. As you have built it yourself you can get at it if there are any problems. I got it to go under a Cl 153 conversion, just before Hornby brought one out!...No 5 on the 'redundant' projects! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) I've been following each and every step of your work here Colin and I have to say I've found this build hugely inspirational - totally top-notch work on every level. Thanks for taking the trouble to post step-by-step updates along the way, there's always plenty to learn from all of your threads (layout included of course). Well I have one question if I may: How do you couple your units (practically rather than cosmetically)? In a few pictures I think I see a length of wire with a loop at the outside end. I guess the inside end is attached to the bogie? Do you simply drop the loop over an upright wire attached to the bogie of the adjacent carriage? Thanks Mark Hi Mark, Glad you like the SUB! I have detached two bogies to show how the very basic linkage works: In 4mm scale, the wire used is .016" guitar string. In your scale .009" guitar string would be best to allow some flexing and thus avoid derailments (some shops stock.008", which would be even better for you. The rectangular loop end of the wire fits over a plastic tongue on the adjacent bogie. The length of the wire is subject to bogie centres and clearance of the inner ends being sufficient to negotiate the tightest curve/ ruling radius of the layout. The one advantage of the tongue design over a wire spigot is that the bogies follow each other more closely, although the loop cannot be a tight fit on the tongue. Hope that helps, Colin Edited January 5, 2014 by Colin parks 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Lovely work there Colin. Although it might be a late now, I can't praise enough the 'Lo-Rider' motor bogie kit from http://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/ . listed in the 'bogies' section. Chris Gibbons had produced an excellent piece of kit. They're quite the most smooth runners, with reasonable power, that I've ever run. Way,way better than a 'Spud'. The running is as good as, in my view slightly superior to the BB. Also it runs very quietly. As you have built it yourself you can get at it if there are any problems. I got it to go under a Cl 153 conversion, just before Hornby brought one out!...No 5 on the 'redundant' projects! 024.JPG Thanks for the photo John. I have not come across that make of motor bogie before. I seems to be fitted with exactly the same excellent type of Mashima motor as a Black Beetle. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Absolutely smashing work Colin, really top notch! The standard you have achieved is a credit to the model. Ironically, I am going to use the Black Beetle/36-553 combo on my Trans - Pennine, so could I ask if there were any wiring issues etc with your set up or is there anything I need to be aware of before this section of work commences? Perhaps a few photo's of the bogie installation if not too late? Cheers. Sean. Hi Sean, Forgive me, but I have forgotten how many vehicles there are in a Trans Pennine unit! However, after running tests, I can say that a Black Beetle (BB) will easily haul four coaches given some weight over the powered bogie. I now re-wire my BBs and dispense with the suppressor, which is said to cause interference with decoders. The wiring is fairly straight forward, I now use red and black wire to differentiate between polarities after some spectacular decoder melt-downs, as witnessed here! Although not cheap. I tend to use Hornby 8-pin sockets as they are easier to wire up than other, smaller and cheaper makes. If you are using a floor which sits upon the solebars, then fitting the BB is easy. I cut an aperture in the floor 50mm x 27mm. Assuming the floor to be 1mm or 40thou. thick, the BB mounting plate is made of a piece of plastic sheet 44mm x 30mm with the pivot hole 25mm from the front. The mounting plate is packed up on two 1mm strips either side. This will get you to the ride height for 14mm dia. wheels. (The brass bush seen in this shot was removed as it caused the ride height to be too elevated.) Once the mounting plate is positioned on the floor and the bogie centre aligned, there will be a resultant gap towards the back. This will be large enough to detach the motor bogie form the chassis once wired up, allowing the decoder socket to pass through the gap without the need to unsolder anything. (The pick-ups on the trailing bogie always have bolt-on tabs so they can also be released without resort to the soldering iron. Hope that helps, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Hi Colin. Thanks for the info. With regards to the wiring, Mike Knowles of this parish will be doing anything that needs a soldering iron waving at it, so I'll be directing him here if he needs any info. The Trans - Pennine will be a six car set and I've already tested the, (skeleton), powered chassis which will be housed within the Buffet Car on DC around 2nd radius curves. It seems to have the desired hauling capabilities once a little weight is added. I'd worry it may overheat if used on a roundy roundy, but I favour terminus layouts, so should be ok. Thanks again. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 6, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2014 The weather has been so cold and damp that finishing the 4 SUB's paintwork has been a little slow. The transfers are finally sealed in under a coat of matt varnish and some weathering has been done to the roofs and ends. IMG_7297.JPG The matt finish and weathering of the ends shows up just how much detail there is on these ends. The MU cables are made and just need a bit of paint before fitting. The side buffers will be set level and secured with some Kwik-Fix multi-purpose glue. There was a lot of bother this week with the Black Beetle motor bogie which had come off my old Kirk 2 BIL. It jammed up somehow and no amount of persuasion would get the running quality to even the minimum acceptable. So the motor bogie was swapped with that of my first EMU, the BR 2 HAP. Running became a little better, but still lethargic. I then bought a new Bachmann 36-553 decoder to replace the Gaugemaster ones that had been tried before. Result: instant success- phew! I can now get on with glazing the unit etc, etc.. Colin Drool valve wide open. Mike. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Dread Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) It can be quite surprising how much load you can put on such as the Black Beetle motor bogie. I have a DC Kits 4-EPB which is powered by this fine power plant. It will also haul, or propel a DC Kits 2-HAP which is unpowered. There seems to be a lot of unnecessary anxiety over the need for two motor bogies in a four car set. IMHO. Carry on the good work Colin. Edited January 6, 2014 by Judge Dread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAB Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I have detached two bogies to show how the very basic linkage works: IMG_7299 (1280x960).jpg In 4mm scale, the wire used is .016" guitar string. Hello Colin, Quick question if I may. Do you use the link to push as well as pull - or is the buffer used for that purpose? Best wishes, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Hello Colin, Quick question if I may. Do you use the link to push as well as pull - or is the buffer used for that purpose? Best wishes, Hi Howard, The link does push and pull, there being approx. (not a 'P4' term I know!) 0.5mm side play and the same end to end. The centre buffers are functional in that they are under slight compression once the bogies are linked and they prevent and surging between the vehicles. The centre buffers act more like shock absorbers I suppose. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) The glazing is done. There were 296 pieces of glazing to install, including the double-glazed cab fronts. Each piece fitted into a slotted recess in the bodywork. Honestly, I don't recommend doing it this way, it is 'route-one' to madness! There are a few bits to tidy up and the top edge of this motor coach cab has suffered some slight scuffing of the paint in the glazing process. Then it's on with all the handles. (No, I still haven't bent and soldered the commode handles yet Howard!) I have made one error in the transfers. I suspect now that the driver's doors had the inscription 'Private' on them rather than 'Driver'. There were no 'Private' transfers on the new Modelmaster sheet that I used. Re. transfers, It seems certain that at around the beginning of the 70's the TSO was 'non-smoking' so that is easy. The tricky bit is that the pseudo composite would have been non-smoking to a great extent: Judging by comments in 'The 4 SUB Story' (Brown/Rayner 1983) that the 10-compartment trailers had two 'smoking' compartments, it would seem that the 9-compartment pseudo composite might have also had two compartments designated for smokers - or was it just the one?! The only good colour photo which sheds any light on this is of a 'standard SUB in green livery in 1967. While it doesn't show the whole of both trailer coaches, there is enough to deduce that the smoking compartments were next to the motor coach end. Hmm. Decisions, decisions. There will be approaching 2,000 parts involved in the making of this unit by the time it is finished. Gulp! Colin Edited January 7, 2014 by Colin parks 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Hi Colin. Thanks for the info. With regards to the wiring, Mike Knowles of this parish will be doing anything that needs a soldering iron waving at it, so I'll be directing him here if he needs any info. The Trans - Pennine will be a six car set and I've already tested the, (skeleton), powered chassis which will be housed within the Buffet Car on DC around 2nd radius curves. It seems to have the desired hauling capabilities once a little weight is added. I'd worry it may overheat if used on a roundy roundy, but I favour terminus layouts, so should be ok. Thanks again. Sean. Hi Sean, Judge Dread has answered your question and over-heating of the motor is something I hadn't even considered. As you say, on an end-to-end layout there is not much chance of over-heating. As mentioned previously, one Black Beetle has failed due to wear in the gears - possibly my fault, who knows. One other point regarding Black Beetles that you might or might not know, is that in 00 gauge, they are available with fine or universal wheels. I only found this out when one unit arrived with the coarser profile wheels. So remember to specify the type you want when ordering. All the best, Colin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Thanks Colin. Without wishing to sound arrogant, (always difficult when not actually speaking.....), I was aware of the two profiles, but only because I was having a search for finescale wheels and found that Black Beetle also supply the same grade wheels and axles only. needless to say, my power, (Buffet), car has finescale motor bogie and trailing bogie wheels both supplied by Black Beetle. Just a heads up for all those DMU/EMU modellers out there. Cheers. Sean. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Colin please do a 4DD next? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 4630 Posted January 8, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2014 Re. transfers, It seems certain that at around the beginning of the 70's the TSO was 'non-smoking' so that is easy. The tricky bit is that the pseudo composite would have been non-smoking to a great extent: Judging by comments in 'The 4 SUB Story' (Brown/Rayner 1983) that the 10-compartment trailers had two 'smoking' compartments, it would seem that the 9-compartment pseudo composite might have also had two compartments designated for smokers - or was it just the one?! The only good colour photo which sheds any light on this is of a 'standard SUB in green livery in 1967. While it doesn't show the whole of both trailer coaches, there is enough to deduce that the smoking compartments were next to the motor coach end. Hmm. Decisions, decisions. Hi Colin, My copy of the Appendix to Carriage Working Notices is dated 1974 which I know is just a little later than your period for 4377, but I've scanned it in case it helps inform your decision making. BR(S) Appendix to Carriage Working Notices, 6th May 1974 Absolutely amazing work Colin, which is nothing less than inspirational. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Hi Colin, My copy of the Appendix to Carriage Working Notices is dated 1974 which I know is just a little later than your period for 4377, but I've scanned it in case it helps inform your decision making. BR(S) App to CWN 1974.jpg BR(S) Appendix to Carriage Working Notices, 6th May 1974 Absolutely amazing work Colin, which is nothing less than inspirational. Many thanks 4360! The copy of the carriage working notice is a very valuable piece of information. I did not know that 'Ladies Only' compartments were still designated as late as 1974, so that is interesting. The diagram makes it clear that all trailer compartments were non-smoking by then. I have read that in the later years, the motor coaches and one trailer coach of the 4 SUBs were non-smoking and a TSO was reserved for smokers. That would seem to only apply to blue-era SUBs from what I can tell. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Electrifying stuff - a highly impressive and inspirational thread. Well done. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Hi Colin, My copy of the Appendix to Carriage Working Notices is dated 1974 which I know is just a little later than your period for 4377, but I've scanned it in case it helps inform your decision making. BR(S) App to CWN 1974.jpg BR(S) Appendix to Carriage Working Notices, 6th May 1974 Absolutely amazing work Colin, which is nothing less than inspirational. The Ladies Only labels may well be in the book but I can';t remember them still being on the actual stock that late. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 The Ladies Only labels may well be in the book but I can';t remember them still being on the actual stock that late. Dave Hi Dave, I'm glad you think s. because I have never seen 'Ladies only' transfers listed anywhere. Re. ladies only compartments and so on, I think that in later years, the 4 SUBs still running with compartments had a red stripe at cantrail level to warn passengers that the vehicle was not an open saloon. These vehicles were only used on peak-time services - but I bet you already knew all that! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I thought that the red stripe only applied to EPBs and that the SUBs had gone by that time. I'm happy to be proved wrong though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 9, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2014 Hi All Didn't "Ladies Only" compartments last until 1976 when the sex equality act (or what ever its popper name was) come into force. I still recall loads of pubs moaning that WOMEN WERE ALLOWED IN THE PUBLIC BAR. Despite the need for the safety of women from those who should not be allowed out in public the railway was compelled to remove the signs and no longer enforce female only compartments as this was not equality. Sorry but equality can never be reached all the time there are people who cannot respect other people for who they are. Off me soap box.........as Dave says I too cannot recall the ladies only transfers on SR stock before 1976. I can remember it still being on ER Mk1 non corridor hauled stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now