Multiple identity account Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Hey,Just heard from a post on facebook/video on youtube that Colas Rail is getting 5 Class 60s. Saw a video of a Colas Class 56 top and tailing with the 5 60s sandwiched between them. From what I could see in the video the locos are 60002, 60047, 60076, 60066* and 600XX. The movement was numbered 0X60I've got no more info to spare but if anyone else knows please do share it.Cheers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted April 11, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 11, 2014 its already been briefly discussed in this thread, but is lost amid the 70 odd pages! http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/5294-end-of-the-tugs/?p=1401922 its actually 10 (possibly 20) they have, they are being refurbished by db schenker in toton for colas, the first one should be out in late may hopefully, looking forward to it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 wow, that's like Pepsi refettling a bottling plant for coke... I'm intrigued as to why they need to mess with these demics when they have 70s and 66s... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbyandbf3fan Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Hopefully they'll bring them down to Cornwall at some point. The 60s are better than a 70 any day and it's good to see them with a new lease of life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted April 12, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 12, 2014 wow, that's like Pepsi refettling a bottling plant for coke... I'm intrigued as to why they need to mess with these demics when they have 70s and 66s... because we dont have enough 66s or 70s for all the work we have! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 12, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 12, 2014 wow, that's like Pepsi refettling a bottling plant for coke... I'm intrigued as to why they need to mess with these demics when they have 70s and 66s... Jim has already supplied the most obvious answer but there could well be a bit more to it than that. The Class 60s are owned by their operator whereas almost all the newwer traction is leased (although I don't know about the Class 70s in that regard). In terms of new kit leasing has certain financial advantages however when it comes to fully depreciated secondhand assets it could well be that different set of accounting rules apply within Colas and the acquisition of a tangible asset could be financially beneficial although equally they might well be obtaining them from DBS on some sort of lease. Thus while the practicalities of having them available is one thing the way the money works can be just as important, for both parties in the deal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 because we dont have enough 66s or 70s for all the work we have! And you're not the only outfit in that situation.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Are colas buying or leasing? I'm sure I read somewhere that a leasing company as the one buying them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Triang Paul Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Any truth in the rumours that Colas are getting St Blazey depot...... ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted April 12, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 12, 2014 Any truth in the rumours that Colas are getting St Blazey depot...... ?? thats a new one on me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Triang Paul Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 That answers that then !!! Shame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 The class 60 has a role to play in the UK hence unlike all the rest of the old BR fleet it inherited EWS/DB kept them safe in more secure locations. The fact that DB felt it worth putting many of them through a complete strip down overhaul indicates there is an ongoing need for their grunt. Clearly they don't need them all and it is refreshing that DB are open to selling/leasing to other UK operators rather than simply holding on to them until they are in the same state as 45015. I've read that GBRF are looking at reengineering some 92s to be a diesel / electric hybrid though I wasn't sure if this was an April Fool. I guess the last engines that BR procured weren't that bad then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 The class 60 has a role to play in the UK hence unlike all the rest of the old BR fleet it inherited EWS/DB kept them safe in more secure locations. The fact that DB felt it worth putting many of them through a complete strip down overhaul indicates there is an ongoing need for their grunt. Clearly they don't need them all and it is refreshing that DB are open to selling/leasing to other UK operators rather than simply holding on to them until they are in the same state as 45015. I've read that GBRF are looking at reengineering some 92s to be a diesel / electric hybrid though I wasn't sure if this was an April Fool. I guess the last engines that BR procured weren't that bad then. The GBRf story was around long before April 1st. I wouldn't be surprised to see some of them being reworked, as they already need a lot of work to make them useable; some of those that Eurotunnel bought had been pretty thoroughly cannibalised whilst they were at Crewe Electric. The diesel engine wouldn't be that big; you're looking at something that can be used for haulage into and out of non-electrified yards, and perhaps getting trains from under broken knitting, not running up Shap at 120 kph. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted April 12, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 12, 2014 Any truth in the rumours that Colas are getting St Blazey depot...... ?? Fugly in the Duchy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
floss_4 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I think DBS still have over 3 years to go on the current clay contract. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I still seem to be missing the point ... firstly , do 70s have more grunt than 60s or vice versa? so , your doing well, you be just got new 66s and 70s and need more power , you don't put a repeat order in, instead you commit to costly overhauls if rotten locos from the competition ...er... and if I was the Germans , I'd sell any of these assets over my dead body. I think EWS got hammered for that ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriswild Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I think the point for colas is they need more motive power, 66s are limited availability, gbrf have committed to 21 of the 28 that are being built, and after that without a different power unit no more can be built, emission regs I think. The lease costs on these and 70s may not be favourable compared to older reconned locos, (as stated by stationmaster). Also the tightening of emission regs will presumably affect future new builds, and so it makes sense to snap up some quality type 5 power (best of British n all that) before someone else does? All speculation on my part, but good to see better fortunes for a class that looked doomed before its time a few years back. I hope they tweak the livery a bit though, a bit more black, aka loadhaul would look the biz! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted April 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 13, 2014 I still seem to be missing the point ... firstly , do 70s have more grunt than 60s or vice versa? so , your doing well, you be just got new 66s and 70s and need more power , you don't put a repeat order in, instead you commit to costly overhauls if rotten locos from the competition ...er... and if I was the Germans , I'd sell any of these assets over my dead body. I think EWS got hammered for that ... i've not driven a 60 (yet) so cant comment on the power compared to a 70 but if they have more 'grunt' they they will be a cracking loco! as already pointed out 66s have a waiting list and 70s would be similar i suppose, i never gave the emmission argument a though but thats probably another factor, grandfather rights and all that compared to the 70s i think the 60s will be a far better all rounder, there are a few niggly little things on the 70 that make them a pain in the backside for certain types of work and locations, from what im led to believe the 70s (and 66s) will be used mainly on the NDS infrastructure work in the south and west which will leave the rest of the trains to be worked by 47/56/66 and eventually 37s, i cant see a reduction in the existing fleet once all the 70s and 60s are up and running either the logs for example when it switched from a 66 to a 56 the had to be reduced from 21 to 19 wagons and even more if it went via the s+c (17 wagons), you think if that train could be increased back to 21 wagons how much more income the company would get, 2 wagons a day extra, 5 days a week, near as damn it an extra train every 2 weeks and the ability to run via the s+c again with a decent load, just have to watch out for the froth and drool around whalley bridge as it passes micks house! similarly the coal, currently 70s cant be used on it (but watch this space!), 60s were built for that job so im hoping to see them on there, i very much doubt that 70s will see their way onto the logs or coal on a permanant basis, just a trail maybe now that we have 60s (the above views are my own and not colas'!!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 interesting stuff , thanks . so the 70s may well spend their time shuttling on the NDS rag tag trains of clapped out engineering stock ??! I thought they'd put their oldest bangers on there. I'm not being critical of colas, just trying to work out how it all works for a FOC... I think colas may be to blame for me taking a more active interest in " modern image ":) away from my BR blue stuff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted April 13, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 13, 2014 The 60's certainly had more grunt in West Yorks than the 66's and the 66's could put it's power down more effectively than a 56. There used to be special signalling arrangements at Ferrybridge for trains to Knottingley to ensure that 56's on MGR's didn't get halted on the curve but 59's and 66's just sailed round. The 60's were also very powerful which I think is why they are still preferred on the heavy oil trains from Humberside. I can't comment on the 70's as my days spent in signal boxes chatting to the signalmen are over. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted April 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 13, 2014 interesting stuff , thanks . so the 70s may well spend their time shuttling on the NDS rag tag trains of clapped out engineering stock ??! I thought they'd put their oldest bangers on there. I'm not being critical of colas, just trying to work out how it all works for a FOC... I think colas may be to blame for me taking a more active interest in " modern image ":) away from my BR blue stuff i think you may have the the wrong impression of NDS trains, some of it is quite 'hi-tech', points carriers, auto ballasters, falcons, self discharge trains, side tippers etc, gone are the days of trains of seacows, rudds, clams etc!! i think it was a requirement of the contract that certain locos could be provided to work the trains, certainly reliability is important as delays to these trains can be costly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 i think you may have the the wrong impression of NDS trains, some of it is quite 'hi-tech', points carriers, auto ballasters, falcons, self discharge trains, side tippers etc, gone are the days of trains of seacows, rudds, clams etc!! i think it was a requirement of the contract that certain locos could be provided to work the trains, certainly reliability is important as delays to these trains can be costly With the penalties involved if possessions over-run, the contracts for delivery of materials to worksites, and to and from regional depots, are very closely monitored by Network Rail. Hence the FOCs putting their newest locos on these workings- if they don't deliver on time due to stock/crew problems, it could cost them a very lucrative contract. The days of an unreliable loco hauling a selection of superannuated 'ex-revenue' wagons are long gone- since privatisation, engineers' trains are every much part of commercial operations as container trains or power station coal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 I still seem to be missing the point ... firstly , do 70s have more grunt than 60s or vice versa? so , your doing well, you be just got new 66s and 70s and need more power , you don't put a repeat order in, instead you commit to costly overhauls if rotten locos from the competition ...er... and if I was the Germans , I'd sell any of these assets over my dead body. I think EWS got hammered for that ... I think you will find that the DB are required by law (in Germany - oddly where they are based) to sell all un used assets. The UK operations will be covered by this requirement. Look over the "tellerrand" and see just how many ex DB loco's (diesel and electric) are operated by their competition. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie_pudd Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Will be extremely interesting to follow this and see how many 60`s get back into full service again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Ok, I'm with you.....I liked the picture of a 70 towing a few knackered OBAs towards hinksey.... They certainly seem to be getting some good contracts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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