Mid-Cornwall Lines - 1950s Western Region in 00

[acg5324]

I DON'T BELIEVE IT!

 

I was watching three Slaters Toplight kits on eBay earlier this week but I lost interest when the bidding got into three figures. I was astonished to see tonight that they had each gone for over GBP 200 - yes, each! The only one I was really interested in, the all-third, went for GBP 300!

 

Perhaps I should sell my few kits and use the proceeds to commission some ready-made ones...

 

V. Meldrew.

What kind of price would they be if available new £50?

[St Enodoc]

What kind of price would they be if available new £50?

Possibly a bit more Andy. When they were last available new the price was in the high 40s.

 

PS - I thought you were going to say HOW MUCH???? in traditional DESH style (Brighton MRC in-joke, folks).

Edited May 4, 2018 by St Enodoc

[acg5324]

That was a wasted opportunity by me.......

[St Enodoc]

Today I decided to work on some wagons to try to improve their running when being shunted. I started with the china-clay train and the Class K goods, as these are the only trains that need to be propelled through the slips at the moment.

 

The first job was to check the back-to-backs. As it turned out, these were nearly all OK so just a couple of twists on one or two axles and all was well there.

 

Next, I noticed that the original Peco brass bearings on the two old Ratio brake vans that work the china-clay train had come loose, allowing the axles to go out of line. I fixed the bearings back in their holes with Multigrip (same as UHU).

 

The big job was adding weight to the wagons. Ideally I would have liked to get each wagon up to about 50 g but this is really only practicable with vans due to lack of space. The plastic kit-built opens all weighed less than 20 g before adding weight. I added as much lead as practicable, without it appearing too obtrusive on the underframe, and managed to get each wagon up to somewhere between 35 g and 40 g. Even so, most of the wagons will need a lick of black paint to disguise the added weight.

 

Once the adhesive had dried I tried some shunting moves at Porthmellyn Road. Performace was much better, although there is still some bumping and the occasional derailment. That isn't good enough, so I had a closer look at the slips. I found a couple of things.

 

First, some switch blades are still not fitting up as well as they should. I need to go round all the slips and improve the taper at the top front of each blade. Secondly, some of the blade pivot pins are a bit close to the rail head, reducing the flange depth clearance and resulting in bumping. I'm a little annoyed about this, as I though that I had checked this when I was building the slips, but I need to file these down to give enough clearance. Thirdly, the gaps at the elbows are still causing a little bumpiness. I need to do a rigorous check at each elbow for track gauge and check gauge rather than just tweaking things by trial and error, which is proving to be a real trial with lots of error.

 

So, an afternoon of satisfaction and frustration. Satisfaction that the running has improved a good deal after weighting the wagons but frustration that there is still more work to do on the slips. I'll have a proper look at these next week and try to fettle them using the soldering iron and a bit of leverage. If this doesn't work, however, I'm going to have to think seriously about removing the slips and working on them on the bench. As a last resort rebuilding might be needed, although I hope not.

[St Enodoc]

I'm happy to say that there was more satisfaction and less frustration today.

 

I looked at the two double slips systematically to work out why they were causing intermittent derailments. I found that on the one in the goods yard (22A/HP A) the gauge at the elbows was OK but there was just a little misalignment between the elbows and the adjacent closure rails. With a bit of tweaking (thank goodness for copperclad timbers - it is so easy to adjust things), I managed to get satisfactory running in all directions.

 

On the slip nearer the main line (19A/22B) I found that, as I had suspected, the gauge at the elbows was wide, at about 16.8 mm. Again, melting a few joints and moving the rails slightly brought this down to 16.5 mm following which I adjusted the closure rail gaps to suit. This solved the main problem last week, which was the shunter's truck taking the wrong route when being propelled through the straight road from the main lines towards the Loop and Up sidings. At the risk of reigniting the gauge wars, I might have a go with 16.2 mm gauge on some future points.

 

Once all this was done I did some high-speed shunting (full speed for D3510 is about a scale 45 mph) and, pleasingly, everything stayed on the track except one of the china-clay wagons. This turned out to have a back-to-back measurement on one of the wheelsets of 14.8 mm, which again was easily fixed.

 

After that, as I was in the mood, I had a look at some of the locos that were on the naughty shelf. Some had seen the error of their ways, as they ran perfectly today, so they are now back on the layout ready for use when needed. Others, mostly Bachmann split frame types, seem to have lost the ability to keep their wheels in gauge. This is a known problem with this type of chassis, so unless they can be fixed without too much trouble on the bench they will have to await new chassis or, in some cases, complete replacement by more up-to-date RTR models (I'm looking at you 6305...). Finally, some of the locos were basically OK except for general stiffness. I will give them a dose of lubricant in due course, which I hope will be enough to see them back in action.

 

Finally, I got a dozen lengths of Peco track out of their box and placed them temporarily at the Up end of Paddington loops 8 - 13. The plan here is to lay the plain track and wire it up, then place the stock that is currently sitting on the bare cork at Paddington and Penzance on it, so that as soon as the associated points are built and installed each loop can be commissioned. I have enough track to finish the Paddington loops and do the same at Penzance, so I will be able to set out more trains ready for the next enhancement to the operating sequence.

 

All in all a fair day's work and the layout should now be ready for next Saturday's running session (famous last words...).

[Michael Edge]

16.2mm gauge is well worth trying, you only need to do it through the crossings though. I got into a little difficulty with fairly sharp radius curves when I used this gauge all the way through the pointwork.

[Chamby]

...The plan here is to lay the plain track and wire it up, then place the stock that is currently sitting on the bare cork at Paddington and Penzance on it, so that as soon as the associated points are built and installed each loop can be commissioned.

. Interesting approach that will require care and probably some fettling. I find it easier to get flowing trackwork that requires fewer joints by laying the turnouts first. Sometimes you also have to use silly short sections to join the points to existing track? Otherwise you’ll end up re-laying the sidings a second time.

 

Phil

[St Enodoc]

16.2mm gauge is well worth trying, you only need to do it through the crossings though. I got into a little difficulty with fairly sharp radius curves when I used this gauge all the way through the pointwork.

Thanks Mike, that's what I have in mind. My minimum radius is 30" - do you think that would be OK?

[St Enodoc]

. Interesting approach that will require care and probably some fettling. I find it easier to get flowing trackwork that requires fewer joints by laying the turnouts first. Sometimes you also have to use silly short sections to join the points to existing track? Otherwise you’ll end up re-laying the sidings a second time.

 

Phil

You're quite right Phil - let me expand a little.

 

The Peco track is all dead straight through the loops. It joins to the SMP track at the start of the curves leading round the corners, which are where the curved copperclad points are located. The short-ish sections of SMP between the points and the Peco track are where the adjustment takes place.

 

Have a look at some of my earlier posts to see what I mean - start at page 11.

[Chamby]

You're quite right Phil - let me expand a little.

 

The Peco track is all dead straight through the loops. It joins to the SMP track at the start of the curves leading round the corners, which are where the curved copperclad points are located. The short-ish sections of SMP between the points and the Peco track are where the adjustment takes place.

 

Have a look at some of my earlier posts to see what I mean - start at page 11.

Got it, thanks. I hadn’t anticipated your use of the intermediate SMP sections in that way.

[Michael Edge]

Stick to 16.5mm gauge for 30" radius (gauge widened 16.2mm if you like), 16.2 just through the crossings.

[St Enodoc]

Stick to 16.5mm gauge for 30" radius (gauge widened 16.2mm if you like), 16.2 just through the crossings.

Will do, thanks.

 

Edit: Gauges ordered.

Edited May 14, 2018 by St Enodoc

[St Enodoc]

I DON'T BELIEVE IT!

 

I was watching three Slaters Toplight kits on eBay earlier this week but I lost interest when the bidding got into three figures. I was astonished to see tonight that they had each gone for over GBP 200 - yes, each! The only one I was really interested in, the all-third, went for GBP 300!

 

Perhaps I should sell my few kits and use the proceeds to commission some ready-made ones...

 

V. Meldrew.

Well, well, well. Tonight three more Slaters Toplight kits appeared on eBay - one of each type, very similar looking photos, and unless I'm mistaken the same seller.

 

I'll watch again and see what happens...

[Mallard60022]

Well, well, well. Tonight three more Slaters Toplight kits appeared on eBay - one of each type, very similar looking photos, and unless I'm mistaken the same seller.

 

I'll watch again and see what happens...

Ref Toplights St. Have you used a sides/RTR hack to achieve any?  Would be far less expensive than what you see on that bay thingy.

Phil 

[The Fatadder]

Ref Toplights St. Have you used a sides/RTR hack to achieve any? Would be far less expensive than what you see on that bay thingy.

Phil

The problem is with getting the tumblehome added to the ends.

[Mallard60022]

The problem is with getting the tumblehome added to the ends.

Oh yes, I remember that. I think you can get ends as well from Worsley works?http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/4mm/4mm_GWR.htm

If not then would it possible to curl the plassi ones using heat? Does Geen do them or some other supplier? I'm not up on GWR Kits but I think I might have done a part conversion for someone a few years back?

Phil

Edited May 18, 2018 by Mallard60022

[The Fatadder]

I would say it’s do able (but then isn’t anything). I can remember back in the day adding tumblehomes to Lima and Hornby Class 37s with a bastard file. I think with a toplight once you get to that amount of hacking to get replacement sides onto a xxxx rtr body, you may as well just solder up the whole thing from brass.

 

I have one hybrid toplight built from Slaters (of the coopercraft variety) for the sides, end and roof. Along with a modified DC Kits plastic floor and Dave Geen bogies. One day I will actually get the chassis working properly!

 

I will look again at the Slaters Kits once they become available again, but the biggest issue still remains that they are a pig to glaze without fairly deep recesses. (Plus even at the old rrp they were close in price to an etched coach which for me at least would be preferable)

 

At any rate I think I need at least 5 or 6 more, so plenty of building still to do!

Edited May 18, 2018 by The Fatadder

[St Enodoc]

Ref Toplights St. Have you used a sides/RTR hack to achieve any?  Would be far less expensive than what you see on that bay thingy.

Phil 

Not yet Phil. Order of preference:

 

RTR (one day maybe, not holding my breath

Slaters kits (which will match the four or so I already have waiting to be built)

Etched sides (Frogmore I believe but I haven't researched a suitable donor vehicle, if any such exists)

Full etched kit (Blacksmith?)

Scratchbuilt

[St Enodoc]

I would say it’s do able (but then isn’t anything). I can remember back in the day adding tumblehomes to Lima and Hornby Class 37s with a bastard file. I think with a toplight once you get to that amount of hacking to get replacement sides onto a xxxx rtr body, you may as well just solder up the whole thing from brass.

 

I have one hybrid toplight built from Slaters (of the coopercraft variety) for the sides, end and roof. Along with a modified DC Kits plastic floor and Dave Geen bogies. One day I will actually get the chassis working properly!

 

I will look again at the Slaters Kits once they become available again, but the biggest issue still remains that they are a pig to glaze without fairly deep recesses. (Plus even at the old rrp they were close in price to an etched coach which for me at least would be preferable)

 

At any rate I think I need at least 5 or 6 more, so plenty of building still to do!

I'm prepared to put up with the window depth Rich, which is why I mentioned above that I would like one or two more Slaters kits to match those I already have.

 

I don't like the Slaters bogies though. I have a small selection of old K's and not quite so old Mailcoach American bogies which I will use when I build the kits.

 

I hadn't thought about the floor. Is the Slaters one no good? If that is the case I will use a sheet of PCB, which is what I do for BSL and the like.

[St Enodoc]

I raise my hat to you in respect Sir! Whilst I would love to be able to do the same, and would really enjoy operating a frame, I know that my track layout would not be sufficiently stable (refer earlier discussion regarding alterations), so I have opted for computer based interlocking. I suspect that, in the long term, you will gain more satisfaction.

Congratulations on your achievement and thanks for sharing the journey.

Paul.

 

Thanks Paul. I've used electrical interlocking (not computer-based though) before but something was missing - namely the physical locking of the levers. I know this has been done in the past (e.g. Thame in S gauge) but once I became aware of Modratec I decided that that was the way to go.

 

There will be two more frames to build as the layout grows. One will be for St Enodoc itself (30 levers) and the other will be a combined frame for Treloggan Junction and Pentowan (54 levers, the same as Porthmellyn Road). The journey is therefore far from over! Neither, however, will be as complex as this one as the number of conditional locks should be far lower.

 

Incidentally, Harold at Modratec tells me that this is the second-most complex frame sold and built to date - the most complicated is in Ireland.

Paul, it's just occurred to me that you could get the best of both worlds. You could build a frame but without the mechanical interlocking, then use EEMECks to provide electrical interlocking. You could probably drive the EEMECKs from your computer, although don't ask me how!

[The Fatadder]

I'm prepared to put up with the window depth Rich, which is why I mentioned above that I would like one or two more Slaters kits to match those I already have.

 

I don't like the Slaters bogies though. I have a small selection of old K's and not quite so old Mailcoach American bogies which I will use when I build the kits.

 

I hadn't thought about the floor. Is the Slaters one no good? If that is the case I will use a sheet of PCB, which is what I do for BSL and the like.

Assuming the floor is the same as the clerestory third I have previously built, the floor design is pretty good. The problem is more the coopercraft didn’t have any floors or bogies when I bought it

[St Enodoc]

Assuming the floor is the same as the clerestory third I have previously built, the floor design is pretty good. The problem is more the coopercraft didn’t have any floors or bogies when I bought it

Thanks Rich, I get it now.

[St Enodoc]

Another good running session today. A few of the gang couldn't make it for various reasons so there were only five of us and one had to leave early. Consequently, we only had three (later two) drivers, a yardmaster at Paddington and myself doing both Penzance and Porthmellyn Road. I also kept the next train indicator moving, although I am pleased to say that I didn't really need to do any other Fat Controller stuff, as the blokes are getting the hang of things pretty well now.

 

The driver rosters helped a great deal, with each driver able to get himself ready for his next train without having to work out who else was doing what. An unexpected plus was that with the drivers knowing what they were going to do next, we were able to get two trains moving at once, intentionally, several times. At one point we had three - one shunting the yard, one running through on the Up Main and one leaving the Down Goods Loop on to the Down Main. A definite win there.

 

Another win was that we had hardly any derailments when shunting Porthmellyn Road yard. I think that just a few more strokes with the file on some switch blade tips will be enough to reach a standard that will be acceptable, if not perfect.

 

Lots of kind words about the lever frame although, strangely, hardly anyone wanted to have a play! Perhaps when the points and signals are actually connected to it there might be more interest.

 

For the next session in July I will try to get some more pointwork built and laid so that we can shunt Porthmellyn Road yard in the Down as well as the Up direction. That will be a good stage to introduce the wagon routing system, about which more another time.

[Mallard60022]

Are the Worsley Works kits not the correct type then? Pity as their etches are very good indeed.
Phil

[St Enodoc]

Are the Worsley Works kits not the correct type then? Pity as their etches are very good indeed.

Phil

Dunno Phil. More research needed I think.

 

Edit: Just found your old threads:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/96381-worsley-works-gwr-4mm-c32-toplight/

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/95660-david-geen-and-worsley-works-gwr-toplights-4mm-kits/

 

Worsley sides/Bachmann donor sounds promising.

Edited May 19, 2018 by St Enodoc