hayfield Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Clive Thanks for the reply and as I said I have no issues with those who for whatever reason want to use ready to plonk track. However having to adjust/replace wheels to run on a "Universal 00/H0 track system" has just shot down one reason why the 00 supporters brigade say we should not work to 00-sf track gauge. Your findings do in my opinion support my thoughts on the benefits of 00-sf Having said that (and I think my 00 back to back may be the same make) on recent posts differing B to B measurements from certain manufacturers may be the reason you are finding they do not match your gauge I have said this many times I use an old Mainline J72 to test 00-sf track, each of the drivers have a different B to B measurement, each wheel goes through without sticking Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 It's considered good practice to check, and tweak if necessary, the BtoB on any wheelsets irrespective of the track standard adopted. So having to do it for 00-SF is neither here nor there, I'd be doing it anyway. As has been said, anybody building their own turnouts is certainly capable of this simple check. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jintyman Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 WOW!!! I started this thread with a simple question, once I'd constructed a couple of turnouts in OO-BF to find out if I could swap my building programme to OO-SF and still keep the OO-BF turnouts I had built. I wanted to run (Modern) RTR wheel sets through my constructed track work, and I wanted finer looking flangeways on my turnouts, that I'd seen on other builders track. I didn't get too far with it as I had a change of scale and direction, but before I changed the scale, I had built and run various stock through my OO-SF constructed track. I had a rake of MK2D coaches which I re-wheeled with some Hornby wheels, a straight drop in, and all were 14.5mm B2B out of the packet. All my Bachmann stock, locos, coaches and wagons, all traversed the turnouts with a smooth transition. The only two difficulties I had was with a SH purchased Hornby class 56, which was 14.2mm - 14.5mm and a couple of Cambrian kits I'd built with Alan Gibson wheels needed easing out a touch. I can understand why so many relate the OO-SF track building to RTR wheel sets, as one of the advantages is that the RTR wheels will run through turnouts built to OO-SF standards smoothly, this is the case in the majority of times, but there is always the change from the norm, as nothing is perfect in life. My question was answered quite concisely by Martin and also by Hayfield and Gordon S, then the protagonists arrived and muddied the waters considerably. I'm not naming names, but anyone who looks back through the thread can work it out for themselves. It got to a point where I was considering having this thread locked by one of the Moderators, as it had then become very confusing for me as a relative newcomer to hand built track. Martin requested that I didn't, and I respected his wishes, and understood why, as things couldn't be corrected if a mistake had inadvertently been put on a thread, and that left it for all time as misinformation. Martin, Hayfield, Polybear, Gordon S (and others) have all contributed in a positive manner, and have given me considerable help and accurate information whilst I was venturing in OO-SF, and also in my move to O-MF, so why did these individuals decide that they'd like to contribute in a negative vein, to a question that was based on a decision that I'd already made, as to what 'gauge' I was going to build with, which was namely OO-SF. Argumentative and inflaming if you ask me, and I had never mentioned DOGA or Proto, so they shouldn't of come into the equation. I didn't hear the P4 boys coming in with "You should be building in P4 as your gauge is incorrect", or the EM modellers. It just seems my thread that I started was utilised as a platform for their trolling towards OO-SF as a relevant gauge. I'm very sorry that Martin has left RMWeb, and I hope that Moderation team and Warners, who are the owner of the forum, can at least realise the importance of his contributions and support on this Forum, and at least open some dialogue with him to correct this, in my opinion, mistake that the Moderation team have made by locking a thread, instead of looking at the whole picture, and the numerous threads that this has happened within. I am the OP, and I had my question answered in a courteous manner very quickly, so why should it now be 16 pages and 379 posts long? If it wasn't for the trolls and protagonists, I don't think it would be. All forums will have Trolls, they'll also have individuals with the God complex, and they'll have the know alls. But the majority of forum members are decent people who enjoy their hobby and share both their experience and their modelling with like minded individuals and friends. It's a trainset after all!!! Jinty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted September 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2015 Friends, After 24 hours, and many kind messages of support, I have had some second thoughts. I am never again going to post substantive information on RMweb, for fear of having the topic locked and being unable to amend or update it. However, I am willing to post replies as links to other pages and diagrams which are under my own control, either on the Templot Club forum or elsewhere. The page for all 00-SF specific information is at: http://00-sf.org.uk which I shall update and expand as time permits. Would it be helpful to have a forum or wiki on there specifically for those using or intending to use 00-SF? regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semi Fast Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 David, please excuse me using your thread to respond to Martin.. Martin - yes, yes please! A wiki would be great - and it would save you having to perpetually repeat yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted September 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 2, 2015 Friends, After 24 hours, and many kind messages of support, I have had some second thoughts. I am never again going to post substantive information on RMweb, for fear of having the topic locked and being unable to amend or update it. However, I am willing to post replies as links to other pages and diagrams which are under my own control, either on the Templot Club forum or elsewhere. The page for all 00-SF specific information is at: http://00-sf.org.uk which I shall update and expand as time permits. Would it be helpful to have a forum or wiki on there specifically for those using or intending to use 00-SF? regards, Martin. Martin's Back! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Well pointed out there Jinty, I think some people seem to lose the lack of courtesy when they are pontificating about "their" opinions, it's no wonder some people seem to switch off from certain threads, most of the reasons being down to how some people conduct themselves during discussions about .......................... model trains !!!! Happy modelling Craig. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Jinty Thank you for such kind words and also some wisdom and sanity to the thread. I have no problem with those who want to use different gauges, building methods or just use what's on the shelf, and I do try to be encouraging of their modelling whilst hopefully perhaps dispelling the myths that are spread about track building. Good measured discussion is healthy and the way in which the hobby moves forward, but we must also respect others points of view Jinty Enjoying your 7 mm thread very much Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Martin , could you add the dimensions for making your own 00-SF gauges to the page ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Friends, After 24 hours, and many kind messages of support, I have had some second thoughts. I am never again going to post substantive information on RMweb, for fear of having the topic locked and being unable to amend or update it. However, I am willing to post replies as links to other pages and diagrams which are under my own control, either on the Templot Club forum or elsewhere. The page for all 00-SF specific information is at: http://00-sf.org.uk which I shall update and expand as time permits. Would it be helpful to have a forum or wiki on there specifically for those using or intending to use 00-SF? regards, Martin. Martin. Fantastic and a very good idea as well with the Links. I'm going to Celebrate by making an 00-sf low relief factory. 99.01818181818182% of the original size I would have made it had I been working in one of the DOGA gauges. Dave :) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted September 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2015 Martin , could you add the dimensions for making your own 00-SF gauges to the page ? Hi, Brian Tulley (polybear) is holding the current drawings. No doubt he will reply shortly. I can post the original check gauge drawing: (the arrowed dimensions are the critical ones) Before anyone else does so, I will point out that with 0.92mm rail it is possible for the check gauge to go as low as 15.16mm if the rail is loose in the slots and the gauge is on the limits. Experienced users will know to pack the slots with aluminium cooking foil to get a good fit in the gauge for maximum accuracy. Unfortunately batches of rail vary, so this is unavoidable with fixed-slot gauges usable on any batch. If you are making your own gauge, you could make a spring-loaded self-adjusting gauge instead. From the drawing you should be able to derive plain 16.2mm roller track gauges quite easily. As far as I know, only Brian has the 3-point gauge drawing. I am just now installing a wiki on the 00-SF web site and will add the drawings as a page on there in due course. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted September 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2015 Martin - yes, yes please! A wiki would be great - and it would save you having to perpetually repeat yourself. 4-SF Wiki now installed. It's at http://4-sf.uk/wiki/ There is nothing there yet, but anyone is welcome to add anything they wish (hopefully about 4-SF ). I will be adding some initial content in the next few days. A wiki is a web site which allows anyone to create web pages, write notes, upload photos and diagrams etc. And allows anyone else to amend or add to them at any time. In this way a useful knowledge resource can be built up. Your contribution can be as much or as little as you wish -- correcting a spelling mistake; updating some text; creating a diagram to explain something; uploading photos; writing a 50,000 word article. You can add to an existing page or create a new wiki page. The easiest way to do that is to search for a non-existent page, which you will then get the option to create. But before you can do any of that you need to join the wiki web site, with a user account which must be set up by me. This is to prevent spamming by unauthorised visitors. If you would like to join the 4-SF Wiki, please do this: 1. send me a PM saying you would like an 4-SF wiki account, and you may want to tell me your email address (see 3.b below). Please don't put anything else in the PM. 2. I will create a wiki user account for you, using your same user name as here on RMweb, unless you say otherwise. 3. You will receive 2 messages: a. a PM from me with your user name and password for the wiki. b. if you provided an email address, an email from the system containing a link which you can click to confirm your email address. This is optional, but it allows you to request a new password if you ever forget it. 4. go to: http://4-sf.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Special:UserLoginand log in to the wiki using the user name and password supplied in the PM. 5. if you wish you will then be able to change the password to whatever you would prefer. • The wiki software insists that your user name begins with a capital letter. If your user name on RMweb doesn't do that, be sure to make a note of the capitalized user name shown in your PM, and use that for the wiki. I'm sorry about that, it seems to be an established feature of the MediaWiki software and not easy to change. Your login to the 4-SF Wiki is entirely separate from your login here on RMweb, you can have different passwords for each. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 but anyone is welcome to add anything they wish Be careful what you ask for. (sorry - couldn't resist ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustytrev Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Hello, Martin has also started a wiki on the Templot Club.Anyone using virtually any gauge can make contributions. A lot of the guides and howto's are in need of updating. It is quite a large task and all those who use, have used, or are going to use Templot could help ease Martins workload by making contributions. trustytrev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 As it happens, a couple of us who expressed an interest in learning/assisting were told by him it was better if we didn't get involved and left it to him. I can't imagine why. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjh Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 hello, I read that Martin W has started an 00-SF wiki. that prompts me to ask whether you folks have any use for the 00-SF Yahoo Group. I set that up in Jan 2007, it has about 250 members and about 1200 posts. It helped a lot when Brian 'Polybear' Tulley acted as "Gaugemaster" , designing, organising manufacture of, and providing a postal retail service for, the essential gauges for 00-SF trackwork/pointwork construction. that era has passed, it may be a useful historical archive, but is it of any other value? I have always felt that it is good that 00-SF work be aired in the wider context eg RMweb. It seems to me that a wiki that focuses on helping people who either wish to understand 00-SF, or wish to make a start on construction, would be an excellent joint effort by those that have already trodden the path. Regards, Rodney Hills (owner of:) groups.yahoo.com/groups/00-SF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjh Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Martin, I got stuck... Rodney Hills 00-SF Wiki now installed. It's at: http://00-sf.org.uk/wiki/ SNIPPED YOUR INSTRUCTIONS ARE... If you would like to join the 00-SF Wiki, please do this: 1. send me a PM saying you would like an 00-SF wiki account, and you may want to tell me your email address (see 3.b below). Please don't put anything else in the PM. DONE 2. I will create a wiki user account for you, using your same user name as here on RMweb, unless you say otherwise. OTHERWISE 3. You will receive 2 messages: a. a PM from me with your user name and password for the wiki. NOT RCVD. PRESUMABLY AN RMWEB PM..? BUT YOUR RMWEB ID SAYS IT DOESNT DO PMs b. if you provided an email address, an email from the system containing a link which you can click to confirm your email address. This is optional, but it allows you to request a new password if you ever forget it. RCVD, BUT... 4. go to: http://00-sf.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin and log in to the wiki using the user name and password supplied in the PM. NO PM SEEN YET.... 5. if you wish you will then be able to change the password to whatever you would prefer. SNIPPED regards, Martin. 00-SF Wiki now installed. It's at: http://00-sf.org.uk/wiki/ There is nothing there yet, but anyone is welcome to add anything they wish (hopefully about 00-SF ). I will be adding some initial content in the next few days. A wiki is a web site which allows anyone to create web pages, write notes, upload photos and diagrams etc. And allows anyone else to amend or add to them at any time. In this way a useful knowledge resource can be built up. Your contribution can be as much or as little as you wish -- correcting a spelling mistake; updating some text; creating a diagram to explain something; uploading photos; writing a 50,000 word article. You can add to an existing page or create a new wiki page. The easiest way to do that is to search for a non-existent page, which you will then get the option to create. But before you can do any of that you need to join the wiki web site, with a user account which must be set up by me. This is to prevent spamming by unauthorised visitors. If you would like to join the 00-SF Wiki, please do this: 1. send me a PM saying you would like an 00-SF wiki account, and you may want to tell me your email address (see 3.b below). Please don't put anything else in the PM. 2. I will create a wiki user account for you, using your same user name as here on RMweb, unless you say otherwise. 3. You will receive 2 messages: a. a PM from me with your user name and password for the wiki. b. if you provided an email address, an email from the system containing a link which you can click to confirm your email address. This is optional, but it allows you to request a new password if you ever forget it. 4. go to: http://00-sf.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin and log in to the wiki using the user name and password supplied in the PM. 5. if you wish you will then be able to change the password to whatever you would prefer. • The wiki software insists that your user name begins with a capital letter. If your user name on RMweb doesn't do that, be sure to make a note of the capitalized user name shown in your PM, and use that for the wiki. I'm sorry about that, it seems to be an established feature of the MediaWiki software and not easy to change. Your login to the 00-SF Wiki is entirely separate from your login here on RMweb, you can have different passwords for each. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted September 17, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 17, 2015 Hi Rodney, I replied to your PM at 18:05 Thursday. Have a look in your PMs. See: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?app=members&module=messaging I have now sent the same information by email. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Hi all, I've recently started to build my own track, after getting to grips with Templot, copper clad soldered construction turnouts, C&L Finescale flexi, and their concrete FB track units. I purchased my first lot of track building materials from Marcway, and with it, OO-BF gauges. The points I've constructed in both FB and BH rail are long and smooth as I have a decent sized area to utilise them. After looking at various track building and finished turnouts on here, I would prefer OO-SF with its 1mm flangeways. My Question is: Can I now purchase the OO-SF gauges from C&L and make any further points with the finer flangeways and mix them with the ones I've already built from a running point of view? I've already laid and ballasted the first trailing crossover in place with the OO-BF settings, the next point along will be a good 16" away till you get to the frog area, so the eye shouldn't notice the different aesthetics!!! WRX413.jpg WRX429.jpg As you can see the turnouts are quite long, so hopefully the difference won't be too noticeable!! Jinty ;-) Jinty Its good to see someone hand building flatbottom turnouts, or are you building them with bullhead rail used in the earlier days of BR ? By the way I thought the Marcway gauges were GOAG intermediate, I could be very wrong though I think your title can you mix is a definite YES. The reason is simply unless you are going to all the plain track by hand you are forced to use 00 gauge plain flexitrack, many do this and have done for a long time without any problems. Some also use RTR 00 turnouts off scene in storage yards. The only question is where to fit the transition from 00sf to 00. Gordon of Eastwood Town has shown a simple method on these pages how to do it. Watford and District MRC are building a small portable layout in 00 gauge. Rather than have large gaps through the flangeways and check rail gaps 00sf standards are being used through the crossings. Visually there is no apparent gauge narrowing, but with the common crossing in place the finer flangeway and crossing is very apparent This photo has been taken to show the transition from 00 to 00sf then back to 00. Will post a length way photo when it is built ( may be a few weeks as Alan at the club is building it at the club on Thursday nights and its his first hand built turnout) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Jinty Its good to see someone hand building flatbottom turnouts, or are you building them with bullhead rail used in the earlier days of BR ? By the way I thought the Marcway gauges were GOAG intermediate, I could be very wrong though I think your title can you mix is a definite YES. The reason is simply unless you are going to all the plain track by hand you are forced to use 00 gauge plain flexitrack, many do this and have done for a long time without any problems. Some also use RTR 00 turnouts off scene in storage yards. The only question is where to fit the transition from 00sf to 00. Gordon of Eastwood Town has shown a simple method on these pages how to do it. Watford and District MRC are building a small portable layout in 00 gauge. Rather than have large gaps through the flangeways and check rail gaps 00sf standards are being used through the crossings. Visually there is no apparent gauge narrowing, but with the common crossing in place the finer flangeway and crossing is very apparent 136.JPG This photo has been taken to show the transition from 00 to 00sf then back to 00. Will post a length way photo when it is built ( may be a few weeks as Alan at the club is building it at the club on Thursday nights and its his first hand built turnout) Wow! This is good news. I would propose an 00sf only Exhibition soon, with this spate of layout building. Trouble is, I couldn't afford to hire all the Security Guards to keep the punters safe from dissenters. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted September 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2015 Hi Dave, Security requirements should be pretty minimal, since one dissenter is in the States and the other won't turn up cos' he doesn't want anyone to know who he is...... Cheers, Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jintyman Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 Jinty Its good to see someone hand building flatbottom turnouts, or are you building them with bullhead rail used in the earlier days of BR ? By the way I thought the Marcway gauges were GOAG intermediate, I could be very wrong though Hi John, Indeed I was building using flatbottom rail, but as you know I've since moved on to O-MF. I still have the turnouts I built to OO-SF with Flatbottom rail, and I remember filing one side of the base of the rail so that I could use the Brian Harrap method of vee construction. Which worked very well. I will probably put together a small depot type layout at some point in the future, as I still have a number of diesels in 4mm, and all the trackwork will be built to OO-SF. But that's way off in the future, as Talyllyn will take a while yet!!! Jinty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nswgr1855 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Only the pointwork in the first video. The plain track is Tillig H0…… I see no reason why you couldn't build pointwork with H0 spacing with 1mm flangeways, but then nothing changes bar the sleeper width? and spacing. The rest of it would be the same. I have been building H0 scale track work using 1mm flange ways using the same check gauge as 00-SF. The result is the majority of RTR models I have (00 and H0 scales) need no adjustment to run perfectly through my track. The standard I use is the AMRA fine tolerance standard. http://www.amra.asn.au/standards.htm It basically is correctly toleranced for complex track work and was designed for current RTR H0. I note a number of the US models measured in earlier posts appear to use the NMRA check gauge. If this is the case they have a high probability of derailing on most Peco turnouts. Of the few 00 models I have my Hornby 4 wheel wagons are no trouble but the Bachman Pannier tank has one set of wheels that needs adjusting. Most Australian H0 RTR models are OK, but we still see under gauge wheels even though I know the manufacturers specified a 14.4mm wheel back to back . Terry Flynn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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