Semi Fast Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 In OO , the main reason for building track is to get away from Peco. I used to be involved with a club project . A plan was drawn up using Peco Streamline 75 - because no-one in the group had ever built points. The committee said "No you have to use handbuilt track on the visible bits. Can't have Streamline on an exhibition layout." Someone had to be found to build the pointwork (and he didn't want the rest of the group involved in making them). I suspect that's not untypical - It's 00, not OO. If you're going to argue about gauges, scales and standards at least get the nomenclature right. - In 00, I would argue that the main reason for building points and crossings is to be able to do what Peco can't - to create bespoke (and prototypical) pointwork and crossings (I don't think many people build plain track these days given the availability of C&L, SMP, etc). - If the committee in question were setting parameters not acceptable to the club members, then that's a matter of club politics and easily resolved by democracy (including walking away if failing to get elected!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I didn't suggest it was all RTR. But if your equipment is fitted with Romfords (or Hamblings or whatever) then you don't need OO-SF . Check rails are fully operative on BRMSB OO for that. Hi Ravenser, I appreciate that the wheels may not actually wedge in the crossing, but because wheel treads are coned, they drop while passing through the crossing. 00-SF helps to minimize the extent of the drop, and that contributes to smoother running and fewer derailments. That also applies in the case of RTR wheels. If I'm going to the trouble of building my own turnouts (which I am doing largely for the reasons Martin has mentioned above, and others that are best left out of this thread) why would I not use dimensions that give me the best running? Speaking of cones, is it really necessary to cone model railway wheels? Maybe parallel treads and a radius or chamfer at the root of the flange would work better? Hmmm...??? Sounds like another thread Best, Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 - It's 00, not OO. If you're going to argue about gauges, scales and standards at least get the nomenclature right. - In 00, I would argue that the main reason for building points and crossings is to be able to do what Peco can't - to create bespoke (and prototypical) pointwork and crossings (I don't think many people build plain track these days given the availability of C&L, SMP, etc). - If the committee in question were setting parameters not acceptable to the club members, then that's a matter of club politics and easily resolved by democracy (including walking away if failing to get elected!). It's been OO to those working in it since at least the 1930s (References - Edward Beal, Railway Modelling in Miniature, 3rd ed (post 1945), pub Percival Marshall - prints OO throughout JH Ahern - Miniature Locomotive Construction, Percival Marshall , 1950 - prints as OO throughout.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 It's been OO to those working in it since at least the 1930sSurely the gauges went something like 3, 2, 1, 0, 00, 000 ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Surely the gauges went something like 3, 2, 1, 0, 00, 000 ?? In my case it's frequently "uh-oh" gauge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted August 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2015 It's been OO to those working in it since at least the 1930s When I first joined a model railway club the older members were referring to it as "nought-nought" gauge. A well-known P4 modeller of my acquaintance was still doing that at the end of his life two years ago. If you visit the Gauge 0 Guild show at Telford next month, you will find a few old-timers still referring to "Nought Gauge". The battle is well and truly lost on H0, but 00 is still frequently seen rather than OO. Let's not lose it. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 In OO , the main reason for building track is to get away from Peco. I used to be involved with a club project . A plan was drawn up using Peco Streamline 75 - because no-one in the group had ever built points. The committee said "No you have to use handbuilt track on the visible bits. Can't have Streamline on an exhibition layout." Someone had to be found to build the pointwork (and he didn't want the rest of the group involved in making them). I suspect that's not untypical More like no one else wanted to do it, that's typical Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 When I first joined a model railway club the older members were referring to it as "nought-nought" gauge. A well-known P4 modeller of my acquaintance was still doing that at the end of his life two years ago. If you visit the Gauge 0 Guild show at Telford next month, you will find a few old-timers still referring to "Nought Gauge". The battle is well and truly lost on H0, but 00 is still frequently seen rather than OO. Let's not lose it. Martin. It was probably all over when Hornby brought out "Dublo" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 More like no one else wanted to do it, that's typical As it happens, a couple of us who expressed an interest in learning/assisting were told by him it was better if we didn't get involved and left it to him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Modellers build track not just because they want to get away from Peco, who do make a range of very robust range of trackwork which is aimed at a very wide range of modellers, both here and abroad I do agree that one of the reasons modellers build their own track is to get away from the RTR offerings today, this can be sleeper size and or spacing, flatbottom rail, clips not chairs etc. But there are many more reasons, Size not available, or wrong curvature, could be interlacing of timbers. On the other hand it could be the need to have a certain formation, or finer standards for better running, copying historic or regional styles, cost is another factor (for copperclad construction), for me its also the detail that can be added. I have the greatest respect for those who model to P4 standards, if it were not for the amount of stock I have EM gauge would be my gauge of choice. Now I fully respect those who choose to model in 00 universal or DOGA fine or DOGA intermediate, I can see no reason to keep having a pop at any of these groups. Exactly the same as why I do not have a go at those who still use the ply and rivet method, for me the modelling world has moved on from this method. BUT I can admire the craftsmanship used to make such wonderful looking models and some spectacular models have and are still being made using this method. Now having said I have no trouble with those who model in 00 universal or DOGA fine or DOGA intermediate, for me and the models I have 00-sf works better a fact that has been echoed by many. Why don't you build and try one, then you may be in a better position in commenting, you never know you may get converted. As for wheels in kits, I have never bought a new kit with Romford wheels enclosed, Kean Maygib yes in bucket loads, even PC wheels but never Jackson or Romfords. Not bought any new kits recently other than 0-16.5 as better value is available via the s/h market. I am surprised by the actions of your old clubs trackbuilder, normally those who can are more than happy to pass on their knowledge/skills freely, this forum is testimony to this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted August 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2015 I am tempted to build a few pieces of track by hand; but these will be things that Peco do not supply, such as a diamond crossing with one straight and one curved road, to make a proper double junction, and a three-way with both diverging roads on the same side of the straight. I have no intention of trying to replace what Peco make with hand-built stuff, because I'm more interested in running trains than building track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted August 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2015 I am tempted to build a few pieces of track by hand; but these will be things that Peco do not supply, such as a diamond crossing with one straight and one curved road, to make a proper double junction, and a three-way with both diverging roads on the same side of the straight. I have no intention of trying to replace what Peco make with hand-built stuff, because I'm more interested in running trains than building track. Hi Jane, Be careful there. Once you have built a nice curved double junction and a single-sided tandem you may get a taste for handbuilt track, and then there is no going back. You may have to join Trackbuilders Anonymous to get your life back. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I am tempted to build a few pieces of track by hand; but these will be things that Peco do not supply, such as a diamond crossing with one straight and one curved road, to make a proper double junction, and a three-way with both diverging roads on the same side of the straight. I have no intention of trying to replace what Peco make with hand-built stuff, because I'm more interested in running trains than building track. Budgie A very good reason to both buy and build turnouts. I would suggest that you keep to the Peco universal gauge, though that may cause a few problems with the curved diamond. Martin is the best person to comment on this Whatever you do, don't build to 00-sf as it becomes addictive Good luck with what ever gauge you settle on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted August 24, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 24, 2015 I am tempted to build a few pieces of track by hand; but these will be things that Peco do not supply, such as a diamond crossing with one straight and one curved road, to make a proper double junction, and a three-way with both diverging roads on the same side of the straight. I have no intention of trying to replace what Peco make with hand-built stuff, because I'm more interested in running trains than building track. Hand building flowing trackwork is certainly addictive and satisfying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 . As for wheels in kits, I have never bought a new kit with Romford wheels enclosed, Kean Maygib yes in bucket loads, even PC wheels but never Jackson or Romfords. Not bought any new kits recently other than 0-16.5 as better value is available via the s/h market. This is a case where a picture is worth a thousand words. I've raided my wagon kit stash and taken a photo Parkside, Cambrian, Slaters , Red Panda , ABS, Genesis . Only Parkside contain wheels. A packet of Hornby 3 hole disc wheels is visible in the top left corner Note the sticker on the Parkside kit stating that it contains Romford wheels and bearings, and the Romford wheels visible in the Parkside packets. (This may be useful reference for people wondering what you get in wagon kits) I don't recall seeing Maygib wheels advertised or on sale for a good many years - as far as I'm aware they aren't in production any more? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 This is a case where a picture is worth a thousand words. I've raided my wagon kit stash and taken a photo DSCN0655 (800x600).jpg Parkside, Cambrian, Slaters , Red Panda , ABS, Genesis . Only Parkside contain wheels. A packet of Hornby 3 hole disc wheels is visible in the top left corner wagon kits detail.jpg Note the sticker on the Parkside kit stating that it contains Romford wheels and bearings, and the Romford wheels visible in the Parkside packets. (This may be useful reference for people wondering what you get in wagon kits) I don't recall seeing Maygib wheels advertised or on sale for a good many years - as far as I'm aware they aren't in production any more? I see you have selective reading, I said Kean Maygib. Bit of a clue in the title. As I said when I bought Parkside kits they had Kean Maygib wheels, I also said I have not bought a new kit for some time. As I said earlier why not try and be constructive with your posts, have a go at building an 00-SF turnout. This way you could see for yourself the benefits of 00-sf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 It has come to me to ask a question. What is Ravenser really doing on this thread, or come to that, any other thread about 00-SF. It is quite clear that he does not agree with the existence of or the use of 00-SF, so why post here. I don't like or am not keen on some aspects of railways and modelling them, so I don't read posts about these subjects or visit site to do with them. I don't visit, say, Narrow Gauge threads and spout on about how I dislike the genre. So why, Ravenser? And if you reply to this with at least one good reason, I promise to read your post, this time. Dave 00-SF Smith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 If serious misinformation about OO is posted , its hardly surprising if a OO modeller should point out the inaccuracy Romford wheels have been packed in Parkside kits for many years. I've been buying them for 20 years, and it's always been like that. That's not a "statement about OO-SF" - it's a question of correcting wildly erroneous statements about OO, for the benefit of OO modellers buying Parkside kits (ie the vast majority of purchasers). That sticker has been standard on Parkside kits for at least 5 years and probably more like 10 None of the kit ranges shown in that photo are packing Maygib wheels in their kits. The claim that they are, and that nobody supplies Romfords in kits has no basis in reality. Saying that "I haven't bought any new kits in years" is not a defence - it simply suggests that the comment has been made without knowing about the subject. (And if nobody buys the kit makers' new production, how are they going to stay in business?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted August 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2015 Romford wheels have been packed in Parkside kits for many years. Hi Ravenser, Your DOGA page says the minimum wheel width for DOGA Intermediate is 2.75mm. See: http://www.doubleogauge.com/standards/commercialwheels.htm According to the Markits web site, Romford wheels are only 2.54mm wide. They will run fine on 00-SF. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 OMG, serious misinformation about Romfords and DOGA intermediate!! Let's hope that the ever vigilant OO police are going to warn us of the dangers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted August 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 25, 2015 It has come to me to ask a question. What is Ravenser really doing on this thread, or come to that, any other thread about 00-SF. It is quite clear that he does not agree with the existence of or the use of 00-SF, so why post here. Dave 00-SF Smith Hi Dave, No response from Ravenser to my post #278.....a clue perhaps? Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Hi Dave,No response from Ravenser to my post #278.....a clue perhaps?Brian Hi Brian. I had come to that conclusion myself, but had missed you post for some reason. Nice to hear you are still around. Dave Ps. I wonder if Ravenser was to be viewing a layout at a show, and then learnt if was 00-SF, if he would argue with the owner, or just walk away. Surely he couldn't bring himself to continue to watch it? Dave 00-sf Smith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 If serious misinformation about OO is posted , its hardly surprising if a OO modeller should point out the inaccuracy Romford wheels have been packed in Parkside kits for many years. I've been buying them for 20 years, and it's always been like that. That's not a "statement about OO-SF" - it's a question of correcting wildly erroneous statements about OO, for the benefit of OO modellers buying Parkside kits (ie the vast majority of purchasers). That sticker has been standard on Parkside kits for at least 5 years and probably more like 10 None of the kit ranges shown in that photo are packing Maygib wheels in their kits. The claim that they are, and that nobody supplies Romfords in kits has no basis in reality. Saying that "I haven't bought any new kits in years" is not a defence - it simply suggests that the comment has been made without knowing about the subject. (And if nobody buys the kit makers' new production, how are they going to stay in business?) If you are going to quote someone please quote them correctly, I and others find you to be totally unreasonable in your replies. Kean wheels took over Maygib perhaps 20 years or more ago. I DID NOT SAY MAYGIB WHEELS WERE PACKED IN THOSE KITS I BOUGHT but KEAN MAYGIB. Many of us by choice buy these and other similar wheels in preference as many kits do not come with wheels. Not only do you misquote me (" and that nobody supplies Romfords in kits") but you claim I write things that I don't, and twist my statements to something they are not This is what I wrote " As for wheels in kits, I have never bought a new kit with Romford wheels enclosed, Kean Maygib yes in bucket loads, even PC wheels but never Jackson or Romfords" I must now admit to buying Jackson wheels in a kit, they were Jacksons in Keyser kits and were binned immediately due to non pinpoint axles. Now I await your apology, though I doubt if I will ever get one. It takes a big man to apologise If you are so concerned by serious miss information, why do you spread so much of it about 00-sf ? Are you worried about the future of the DOGA ? Do you not like healthy competition ? Or against free thought ? Now for a third time, why don't you build an 00-sf turnout to prove your theory. Plenty of us have done so and proved you wrong. Is it that you know we are right ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Hi Dave, No response from Ravenser to my post #278.....a clue perhaps? Brian Brian You have no chance as he is so very selective in what he reply's to. I have challenged him to build an 00-sf turnout (perhaps I should have called it a point !!) 3 times now, seems to have fallen on to deaf ears. If he should reply no doubt he will miss quote you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Ravenser, There is no misrepresentation. If "...large numbers of 00 (not "OO") modellers...." are happy with their existing solution, and those of us who are interested in the 00-sf standards are happy, then where exactly is the problem? There isn't one. Out of interest, are you by any chance an existing (or previous/retired?) member of the DOGA Committee by any chance?* (*With no disrespect implied or intended to the DOGA Association or membership whatsoever) Brian Brian I have re-listed it to save Ravenser the trouble of going back a page Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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