hayfield

I too live "sarf o' the river" as the london cabbies say, near Ashford, Kent. 5 minutes form the M20. I drive on a fairly regular basis to South Mimms, where the M25 and A1 cross, to drive rail replacement buses. A distance of about 84 miles, it can "sometimes be done in 75 minutes; sometimes it has taken 5 hours. 

 

For the chap from C&L who I believe lives in Epsom, his journey to Stevenage could take far longer as he has not only half the M25 to contend with but possibly the Dartford Crossing, depending what way he goes round! His journey is probably the same as mine, about 84 miles and if he went on a Friday to a show in Stevenage could be faced with the 5 hour M25 chaos! Yes indeed, we might just as well be in America!

 

Meanwhile I'll try phoning again tomorrow and see if I get an answer.

 

Is he likely to be at the Canterbury show?

Southampton, then Tonbridge

Gordon

Attending shows has several benefits which outweigh the disadvantages of disrupting normal business activities, plus these dates have been in the diary for months.

The trick all traders have to do is to keep the mail order side going whilst at shows, hopefully Phil's problems will resolve themselves over time as he gets a grip on the business

I have a couple of locos with flywheels and for what ever reason they do run better than those without

I also have a Bemo loco which has a faultless in built electronic flywheel system using an old  standard controller (H&M), no idea how it works though, but the chassis is very heavy and fills the body

High level have run out of 1020s - I tried to get one for the J15 kit.Or rather he thinks he has enough for fulfiling existing orders. It may after a count-up prove otherwise. But that's where I got the 1420 from.

 

I grabbed a couple of them off ebay when they had the 20% off coupon recently. Although they then got sent to the wrong address so took a while to actually make it!

 

There's a couple of churches nearby I could get some lead from there (joke ) - what I meant was how many grams total?

  I would line each tank, think how heavy a whitemetal kit is, then look at how much metal is put into modern RTR locos

This is a simple jig for any angle and or gauge or scale. Just a board with a piece of metal bar screwed to ii, keeping a gap between the board and metal for the copperclad to fit under

Just solder strips of copperclad (0.5 mm for 4mm and 1 mm for 7 mm) or just use scrim from an etched kit, slide the Vee under the metal strip, line the wing rail in place using a wing rail gauge and solder

Simple as this

Just turn the sub assembly round, then fit the second wing rail using the wing rail gauge

Cost minimal

The lead sheet builders use, may need a bit of flattening with a hammer to thin it down a bit, but well worth doing. Bags of room for a decent sized motor, London Road Models have a decent supply of Mashimas as does High Level

John,

 

so the RTR manufacturers have a price, which the retailers discount. I had experience of some manufacturers prices when I ran a model shop in the 1980s. These were set at a level such that a 10% discount still left the retailers normal margin. I wonder if that still goes on?

 

In the case of most of the Small suppliers to this hobby, very few sell to retailers, so they set the price they need to make a reasonable margin and that is that.

 

In general ebay sellers don't "charge" a price, although they can set a BIN price or a reserve. The fact that some people pay over the odds is down to the buyer.

 

Has the abolition of RRP been a good thing?. Yes, if you want a percieved bargain, but perhaps not if you want local availability, good service, etc.

 

Jol

Jol

Agree with most things, though local availability is more down to the costs involved in retailing

You may have misunderstood what I was saying about some eBay sellers, yes other than BIN selling eBay is an auction site, but the seller sets the starting price (The minimum they will accept, which could be more than the recommended retail price),

A true auction normally starts at a low price. Some sellers do start at a very low price to attract people to bid, unless you set a reserve (min £50) there is a risk that it will sell for less than you want.

If I feel an item is over priced I steer well clear of it, I guess you and others do the same

Indeed , as I argued elsewhere in this thread , it's not a good use of a one man bands time

Attending shows is an important part of the business model, it has its drawbacks but is an important part of making the products visible and available to modellers

Richie

I think I confused you with the way i suggested using the Exactoscale Turnout timber strips for both timber and concrete Timbers by just painting another colour

The Scalefour or EMGS Vee jigs are for filing the rail, though you can use the clamps to hold them whilst soldering

The common crossing jigs are a great help, I have one for a 1-7 in 0 gauge

C&L have found a source of 0.5 mm strip, will be in stock soon (if not already)

This is a good piece of kit from the EMGS in EM or P4 gauges, initially designed for P4 and for use when building the turnout in situ, but by soldering a length of tail to a sheet of copperclad an EM gauge]e block gauge can be used for 00sf

This is an 00 gauge (16.5) one milled up for me 

Used slightly differently than the Commercial one by using a wing rail gauge

Do the other side

File the copperclad strips back to the rail sides

I have an even simpler method using a home made jig, will up load photos later

I've also been looking at motorising the N7. I want to try and squeeze a Mashima 1420 in. With a 54:1 ratio would give a scale top speed of about 50mph. Not really sure what speed an N7 could do but going by this noone seemed to argue with gearing for about this speed (the arguement was the calculation was wrong) - https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2858

 

Squeezing a 1420 in may be interesting but because these locos had to pull 10 coach trains I figure a bit of power would be useful! Fortunately with the whopping great side tanks it might be possible.

Richie

You have loads of room in the N7 for a decent size motor. You could use a Loadhauler, I prefer the Loadhauler + as its articulated, if its too wide use a Slimliner. This range of gearboxes are superb  

http://173.254.28.51/~highlev3/chris/Pages/gearboxplanningpage.html

As for weight, a thin sheet of lead in each tank will solve all problems 

you'd think it was the USA , I mean the distances involved , the travel , the injuns......

Very funny and shows how little you know about running a business and attending shows on a regular basis

If you are trading at a 2 day show (within a few hours drive from home) the day before is for packing the van and setting up at the show, 2 days trading and the morning of the 4th day unpacking. For a company in the South East attending a Scottish show, then packing up the van is the Thursday afternoon, one days travelling and setting up, 3 night stay, the Monday spent travelling back and the Tuesday morning unpacking. So a 2 day show is eating up the best of 5 days. These guys are driving loaded up vans, not drinking wine whilst being flown across the Atlantic !!

Those are just the days committed to the show, given that the person would have started working on the Monday that means 12 days without a break, a local show will eat up 3.5 days, a trip to Scotland and back the best part of 5 days, On top of that you expect the trader to run a mail order business the week before and the week after. I guess you then expect goods sent out by return even when the one man business is attending shows.

Would I be a trader attending shows, no way. Happy to help out now and then providing I can go home easily between the 2 days the show is open.  To be quite honest I have no idea how some actually cope where they attend lots of shows

Jol

The recommended retail price was abolished many years ago, it is up to the retailer to set the prices. Normally now in retail competition is fierce especially with on line shops, or extended warranties or free delivery, as I said earlier the ease of buying on eBay in some's view may be worth paying a little extra if they are time poor. This is not eBay's fault, could even be seen as a benefit by some

I paid (what I thought was) a little over the odds for some Markits EM axles, simply due to supply issues. I bought a dozen more at the weekend at the same price from Roxey mouldings (seems the Markits on line catalogue is out of date (2013)). This is the exception for me as I look for value if buying off eBay and pay full price when using traders.

Yes there are chancers who charge over the odds, but no one forces anyone to buy items. As for the items taken over by London Road perhaps a bit of advertising may be lucrative 

Richie

Looks like others have answered the questions my response posed

Briefly Exactoscale do not make flexitrack. The fast track bases are about 6" long and the sleepers for 00 gauge have moulded chairs, you thread the rail on to the bases and if curved track is required you cut the webs. Exactoscale costings are totally different to Peco's mainly due to limited production runs

Exactoscale do not make or supply rail anymore, C&L just do one type. Code 82 is not on C&L's website at the moment, I know Phil picked up a van load of rail last week, but no idea if it included code 82 rail

Do look at photos of track work from the era you are modelling.

Don't get your hopes up about different track fixings, in 4 mm scale flatbottom track parts are worse off than bullhead. Its a case of making do with whats available

First of all only DCC Concepts do code 82 track gauges, if you are careful code 75 will fit and they will allow the head of the rail to rotate so that the rail inclines inwards. I have a set of DCC code 82 gauges, but if they are on the tight side and hold the rail vertical, once released the chairs will relax and narrow the gauge.

The ST Baseplates act as chairs (I think they are referred to as track clips) but other than Peco 00 gauge (are they still available?) concrete sleepers all the plain sleepers I know are for EM/P4 gauges, buy the Exactoscale fast track bases in 00 gauge.

As for turnouts the Exactoscale standard timbers E4XX PCT0 are fine, at the start of BR using flatbottom rail for turnouts they used wooden timbers as far as I know, certainly seen photos showing this, or just paint them grey rather than brown/black. The Manchester Model Railway Society/Club have a website showing the evolution of flatbottom rail fixings, very informative, but nothing you can do if these are not available in model form

Peco do Pandrol clips, apparently they are over scale. Colin Craig and Massokits both do etched fixings which you fold up and solder to both the rail and copperclad timbers. Can I say the latter firms product I have tried and are very challenging, not for the novice.

Its a case of making an effort rather than slavishly following the prototype. If you set the period slightly earlier then bullhead rail and 3 bolt chairs will be fine. However not many make flatbottom turnouts, so you could set a trend

I got a few lengths of Exactoscale concrete and comparing them to Peco code 75 concrete there isn't actually a lot of difference in the sleeper size, it's the spacing that differs. If the Peco sleepers were re-spaced they would be very close in appearance.

1/8th of 3.3 mm is less than half a mm, some feel that the thinner width coupled with the shorter length of the sleeper looks more prototypical and will accentuate the wider timber on turnouts and crossings, same may be said similarly about sleeper spacing being slightly less than prototypical but slightly more than H0 scale. As you say both are compatible with each other, thanks for pointing that out

Dave

D&S is a make many will pay over the top for, either as they are discontinued, believed to be discontinued or just hard to get. Some are just time or ability poor so are happy to pay for others to do the sourcing for them

Most discontinued kits are sought after, some more sought after than others so fetch a premium. Of course there are those which should be given a wide birth,  I guess I only buy a fraction of 1% of what I follow, but I am looking for value

If you are time poor but cash rich, it may be economical to pay someone else for their efforts.    

The sleepers on Ynysybwl are ply and were stained with a Colron product - I think it was mahogany. The chairs I can't comment on because I am colour blind (there are two of us in the Ynysybwl team) but I would guess it was Humbrol 186. I thought the show was excellent and I was pleasantly surprised to find that parts of Stevenage had escaped the New Town curse. Much better than Bracknell - the home of ExpoEM.

John

The standard of the whole layout is outstanding, the trackwork is some of the best I have seen. I think what was said about the chairs is that the rust colour might need toning down slightly, but this is the persons own point of view

I have looked at some main line track, you can see the rail, timbering and ballast are all different colours but covered in the same coloured grime. This is where the artist comes into their own and everyone sees things differently, on the other hand in model form sometimes you have to accentuate things. So each to their own

For me Ynysybwl was the layout I enjoyed the most at the show, the track work/building was superb with stock working perfectly over it

The price an item is worth is the price someone is willing to buy it for, if its still not sold then the market dictates its not worth what is being asked for

On the other hand if someone offers to buy it at £50, they think its a bargain, he's got his £50

I recently bought a second hand kit marked up in LSD and paid many times the old price for it. On the other hand I bought an unmade etched 4 wheeled coach kit for £10, new I think they are £40 ish new. The second hand dealer (toy not railway) had no idea of its value. I also bought a Blaksmith bogie coach kit for £20. No doubt he was happy to sell the stock (3 items for £40), I certainly was buying them

Richie

If its modern day models rather than modern era then code 75 bullhead rail probably is correct, if so gauges can be obtained from either C&L or DCC concepts, if the latter make sure you buy the code 75 bullhead not the code 82 flatbottom ones.

I would suggest that for flexi track I would suggest you go for either the C&L thick base track or Peco bullhead. Plastic timbers( if making chaired track rather than copperclad) for making turnouts and crossings is available are available from C&L. In my opinion the Exactoscale ones are better than the C&L thick ones, keep away from the C&L thin plastic ones as the solvent when drying makes them curl up.

If using concrete sleepers, then C&L do the ST baseplates which fits the ST base plates they do and takes code 82 flatbottom rail. C&L and Exactoscale do 00 gauge concrete sleepered track, Peco use code 75 (both are compatible with each other) though Peco has H0 scale sleepers and sleeper spacing.

Size of turnouts on mainline are large, the ones you will use more likely will depend on space available rather than following the exact sizes used, in modelling terms large radii turnouts and crossings. 

Jeff

I was thinking of building the track as you have on a ply base, then depending on how I wish to proceed use light weight ply frames, initially may have a simple soft wood frame for the build. Another idea is to have a hinged section on the end holding the fiddle yard and or a front scenic section which folds on top for transportation 

Phil

Thanks, two problems which could be overcome easily

The first being the lack of Y turnouts, but just use A5's. The second is preference which is the top right turnout being too far left, easily rectified. Otherwise much better than my idea

Jeff

Thanks I think what I said above agrees with your suggestion

Stu

Thanks, the sidings length are fluid as are the curves on them. My main layout is in EM gauge, this really is something of a demonstration piece plus a place to run a few P4 items I have. Having said this it could be an ideal test piece for baseboard design, scenic methods etc and no reason why it cannot  be a demonstrable piece on its own

I have a Langley etched station building to use and perhaps a few other things like the Ratio concrete shed etc could be utilised

Will it be fed by a fiddle yard at lower right? I think you need one in order to do any meaningful shunting. It looks as though you could minimise the release track to the shortest wheelbase loco that you intend running and maximise the loop length.

Jeff

Yes that's correct a fiddle yard bottom right, also for expansion if required a left hand fiddle yard top left using a road over bridge. Somehow I have lost the curving flow that I remember, it had one normal turnout and 3 Y turnouts. The reasons for the Y's is in hand built track you can get a much larger radius in a smaller space than you can on a conventional straight turnout.

I just want a design which covers these requirements

1  Small,  Initially will be a demonstration piece for track building demonstration so must be very portable

2  Flowing trackwork,  a design which is devoid of straight track, compact but allows stock to move through turnouts without lurching from side to side

3  A layout to run my P4 stock 

4  Simple design which despite the gauge being used public can engage with

As can be seen, not quite there with the use of Y's and the flowing aspect, any suggestions will be most welcome

With my new work room nearing completion and modelling now being possible I am hoping to start track building demos at shows again ( if invites recommence), I need something very small and portable to work on/ demonstrate, plus I have a small collection of P4 locos (57xx, 94xx, Triang Nelly and 2 Pugs). So why not include both

The idea is to fit on a 4' x 1- 1.25' baseboard

I have cheated a bit by pinching someone else's design, or rather my memory of it. Here is a Templot screen shot

Train enters bottom right into a small station (light railway?) platform top left, which could either be a terminus or enlarged later for a through station

I wanted to use Y or curved turnouts to increase the radii of small points/turnouts plus plenty of curved tracks for a flow

There are two sidings and a runaround, I have a Langley etched station building to use which is very light railway'ish. Track will be ply timbers and sleepers with plastic chairs.

Thoughts and ideas on improving the plan is most welcomed 

Templot box file

Proposed P4 shelf layout plan 2018.box

Thanks

It depends simply on supply and demand, what is "on trend" at the moment and also how an item is presented.

10 years ago I got silly money for both a HD Co Bo and a motorised electric coach, both very play worn, the latter missing a couple of coach bogie sides but had boxes, now better items are worth a quarter what I was paid for them. On the other hand some discontinued kits fetch far more now.

I kept far away from Wrenn locos, stupid money they were fetching

Its the way the market works