hayfield

In one way you might have hit the nail on the head, one is a "model" and the other is a "train set".. But then how many people who model a specific location and keep to running trains to the original timetable,with the correct stock. Most layouts would be totally boring to both run and watch

To expand your thought process, most model railways out there are train sets, as they embellish the stock used on the layout to increase the operating potential

On the other hand is this not a hobby which we are supposed to enjoy, I actually enjoy the building side of the hobby, which is by definition model making. A preserved line allows me to run my models and explains the over representative collection of locos, plus variations in livery and stock visiting from other regions.

In my humble opinion many a fine layout has been spoilt by using the wrong scale track with the wrong type of rail. I have not even mentioned gauge yet. On the other hand does it really matter?  Its a hobby just take pleasure in what you are doing

Problem is you can not tell what is still available and what is not.

The answer may be none!!  that was the point I was making, The Coopercraft warning allures to some still being available, a year ago at shows if my memory serves me right it was plastic parts only, no kits

This is on the first page, you can still place orders and money will be taken still on worldpay,Due to some of the Cooper Craft, Mailcoach, Kirk & Slater's have been out of stock due to a problem with my machine, it will be best for you to place your order but not pay for it at that time. I can let you know when back in stock before you pay for it.

Which ones are still available?

I think Branchlines did an Ilfracombe Goods. It might still be available. Worth an email.

My in-laws live close to the K&ESR and I always love to go there, would make a wonderful model either as a K&ESR model or as a preserved line. Rolvenden with its single platform and engine shed could easily be built, especially if compressed a bit in to a smaller space, and not too much in the way of infrastructure to build. I quite like standing on the viewing platform watching the trains go by and looking at what is outside the shed  

Bill

I normally agree or support most of what you say, but under no circumstances where he has reportedly stated the machine/tools have broken, should he continue to accept funds for these items. Why not just turn off that part of the website. Or simply refund monies immediately. That's what most of us would do

I do accept many reputable businesses take advanced orders for stock, which will exist in the near future. Not only is your comparison way off the mark, but to compare this business with Mr Dunn is in my opinion rather scraping the barrel. I like others cannot understand why you seem to be defending these outrageous business practices.

I can as I said earlier understand how Mr Dunn has got into this position, which was clearly outlined in a well thought out and written reply. But there must be a line which must not be crossed, this line seems to have been crossed many months ago, which in this thread has been agreed by all but the odd contributor. If he has an ounce of decency in him, he should face up to these problems and deal with them, certainly accepting further funds for items he cannot supply is totally out of order and must be stopped  

Excellent thankyou

Any other queries feel free to PM me is you wish

A search on 192.com shows that PD is not the owner of the property

 

jonathan

Shame

I’m seeing something like the sketch at the bottom.

 

The station building could be no more than a modest hut, like the kit that came free with RM last month.

 

Google Fockerby station for an example of a very basic terminus.

Looks very interesting, especially as 3 of the 4 turnouts are Y's which give larger radii in a smaller space than straight ones. may not be what the OP requires but may fit the bill for a small collection of P4 tank locos I have.  Thanks

Brilliant! The best ideas are always the simplest.

 

No chair threading. Rails easily and accurately located. Second half-chair easily located and fixed.

 

Martin.

The next question is how easy is it to stick plastic chairs to the better quality material

Or the half chairs could be attached to the timber ends by a pip and cut off

I agree that K's wheels weren't all bad by any means, though the D-profile axles were certainly not a good idea.. I've managed to get a few sets to work very well by using a jig to get the quartering right and then putting a spot ot Loctite to secure them to the axles.

 

That said, the originals as included with the 14XX kit when it first came out, although touted as ready-mounted and -quartered, often had a fair bit of wobble built in, though the rear carrying wheels always seem to have been fine. Again the problems were down to sloppiness in the manufacture and a serious lack of quality control, I'm afraid.

John

Agreed, but they were of their time and worked on Peco track

It's not an incorporated business. You can't wind up or liquidate a person. At least not in the terms you are thinking of

 

As a sole trader, the business funds are no different to his own personal funds (although it's good business practice to keep them separate) and any action would need to be against him personally.

 

The only way to get a clearer view would be if we had the Scandinavian model of public tax returns.

A person can declare themselves insolvent against their creditors, cannot someone who has a judgement do the same against someone who owes them money

I have a friend who was owed money by a person, having won a judgement he was able to take a charge out against the debtors property. As he had a legal charge on the property the debtor could not do a thing without my friends agreement. Needless to say when the debtor needed to either sell or remortgage his property my friend got paid and with interest

The last time I saw Coopercraft at a show, two or three years ago, many of the Coopercraft items were like this.  They used to be crisply moulded, the ones I saw had an awful lot of "flash".

 

Do we presume that Dunn has not produced any new injection mouldings of any of the ranges he has purchased, and in every case he is selling old stock?

I think that someone with the correct machine and the knowledge of how to use it as Iain has said could make it work, the real question is would enough units be sold?

Bill,

 

Anyone in business has a responsibility to ensure that their "customers" receive the product/service they pay for. If they cannot do so they also have a responsibility to ensure that they are NOT taking money illegally ie: from a paywall like this and NOT supplying/producing product.

 

Khris

Khris

You have hit the nail on the head

1   He should be stopped taking money for goods he cannot supply immediately

2   Debtors should be repaid from the assets he has. We know he has both the moulds and etched kits, at a general sale these assets have no value, where as in the right hands there is value

I would like to think Mr Dunn is reading this and has an attack of conscience, makes arrangements to either repay his creditors or supply goods to the value, before the decision making is taken out of his hands.

If someone has the ability to see who owns the property he trades from, it may give those who have court judgements against him the ability to register an interest in the property for the amounts owed.

If you look at Clive Mortimers thread (Sheffield....something...maybe junction ? ok I'll come back to you with that one) then you'll see he's a dab hand at producing emus and locomotives from plasticard, the main thing is to build up a box with laminations on the curves and to then file away the excess.

The late Alistair (Rolfe ?) of Nonosence kits advised me to make roofs for the ex-MTK railcar this way, planks of 40 thou thick 10 mm wide plastic strip. Allow the solvent to totally dry out, then sand. 

Sides I guess would be totally different, plenty of threads on building up layers of thin plasticard especially those  using those card cutting machines (which could actually be your best option)

The other alternative is to go the other way, that is to print the turnout timber bases and use existing commercial available plastic chairs, or even print half chairs (inside for stock rails outside for switch rails) on to the timbers and stick half chairs to the timbers.

I had one do this, a quick spot of super glue was all that was needed. Another motor had one of the side plates not quite in the correct place (either very slightly too far forward or back) anyway worked well despite this. Has more issues with DS10's failing

Good idea in principal for smaller locos, but badly executed. Having bearings either end may have solved the issues

I must own up to liking the plastic 8 ba bolts which were useful in some cases

Even the old Ks Mark 1 & 2 motors were a little hit and miss - I have a couple still going strong after almost 40 years. Others fell apart fairly quickly after being placed into service - I suspect that the epoxy used wasn't the best, or their mixing techniques left something to be desired

I had one do this, a quick spot of super glue was all that was needed. Another motor had one of the side plates not quite in the correct place (either very slightly too far forward or back) anyway worked well despite this. Has more issues with DS10's failing

You would still use code 100, cut the switch rails in half, or have the isolation gap much further down and use plastic isolating fishplates, they make super hinges  

John,

 

If you've met the man in person, and have thus been able to add that crucial face-to-face dimension to your assessment of his character, then fine. I have met him face-to-face, several times (always at shows, as I mentioned before) and whilst I may not be the best judge of character, I personally remain of the view that he is very much out of his depth and possibly a bit complacent, but I don't see him as someone who set out at the beginning to deliberately defraud people.

 

I do not have sympathy for cynical criminals and con men, and I do have sympathy for those who have paid over money and not yet received their goods, but I not 'playing the sympathy card' with my remarks here, and I am equally no 'ble*ding heart' either.

 

I simply think that the situation here is possibly more complex than some would like to think it is.

CK

Like you I have met and had quick chats with him about his products at shows, and came to the same conclusion as yourself, with the one caveat that after digging a hole for himself he kept on digging.

This past year we have had a extension built and unfortunately found a builder with similar issues as Mr Dunn, the work started well and the quality was good. As the amount of work being carried out slowed and requests for additional monies increased it came to a point where we had to part company. We found out from the contractors he used and the building inspector others were having similar problems. Thankfully we were not too much out of pocket and in fact perhaps had spent a similar amount to what other builders were quoting, the main problem being it took 3 times longer that the original estimate to complete. In hind sight our builder was not a bad person just took on more than he could deliver.

Looking at Mr Dunn's stand over a two or three year period, it was quite obvious that he had no way of replacing his stock of plastic kits or parts. But had built up a stock of etchings, so he did  have the intention of trading, however he was missing from shows this year

I don't think the Coopercraft kits themselves have suffered from these issues, but the retailer has

In conclusion I think we all should be careful who we trade with both online and mail order. Hopefully Mr Dunn is reading these posts and can see there is still time to resolve these matters

I now have some bullhead rail, chairs and some plastic timbers so will be making a start on a diamond crossing to go with the Peco bullhead turnouts I have after the Christmas festivities are out of the way. Will post progress on in the 'hand built and templot' section as and when.

 

Should add that it won't be a copy of the Peco FB crossing due to the more prototypical track spacing I'm using and that it and the turnouts are on a transition curve.

Tender

A good suggestion, that will please most. Do start the thread before commencing the build as there are several options in building even with chaired construction

As for track spacing, there are some who for years have adapted Peco turnouts and I guess will continue to do so

It all depends what you put the HMP2. I liken it to the DS10. Fine in a small locomotive such as the milestones Lion, 48XX. A GWR Aberdare/mogul was pushing it, but what were they thinking as a chosen power plant for a Garrett or Princess? Regardless of manufacturer, I always put the biggest motor I can get in.

 

I recall Mike Sharman buying large quantities of the small K's motors for his 1800's locos. He managed to make them work fine, but a Crampton with 5 light coaches requires much less power than a Jubilee with 10 on.

 

Most of my K's fleet, and I currently run 18 ex K's, have the original large twin ended shaft motor. They work fine and have the necessary power for the long trains I expect of them. The Titfield Thuderbolt Lion has had a HP2M motor in it since building and works fine with the one sleeper wagon + brake van expected of it. No issues at all.

DSCF1478.JPG

 

I recall my father building a K's Garrett for a friend with 2 x HP2M motors (only one was supplied) - what a farce. It could just pull itself along. Replaced with big Japanese motor gearbox and worked well (and still does).

 

This K's grange with original motor has just pulled 36 wagons up a steep incline without any issue, no overheating. The mogul and dean goods visible have a same original motor and can haul the same train.

K's Grange.jpg

 

Right tools for the job in my opinion.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Mike

Thanks for adding a new twist to the HMP motor thoughts, which goes a long way to explaining why some locos do work with these motors

 The older K's Mk 1 & 2 motors and the earlier motor (with body screws) all worked out of the box, the newer HMP2's did tend to overheat quickly in most cases and you may well have put your finger on the problem in asking them to do more than they are capable to do, being the issue.

Their idea of plastic centred wheels in theory was a good idea, but perhaps leaving enough room for the screw fixing may have made the D part of the hole too weak, I have a later (or was it an earlier) set of wheels with a plain D shaped axle and no screws in my collection just waiting to be tried

Anyway my plan is to fit proper (modern) gearboxes rather than motor mounts in future

Digression into the whole turbulent topic of hand-built track, and the seemingly inevitable accompanying views that seek only to pick fault with the latest Peco product or to sneer at those who are happy to use it, might not be a relevant or desirable part of this topic. Nonetheless, is there not a good case for suggesting that practical suggestions for the construction of robust and effective diamonds, slips, 3-ways etc to match the appearance of the Peco items are a fair aspect of this discussion, at least pending a decision from Peco on whether to offer us more options?

 

 

Well said, I understand from another reply that a double slip is next on the drawing board, so for the person requiring a diamond, hand built is the only option for something that will match this product. 

I accept there are those who have no interest in this subject which is fine, just ignore these replies. There are those like the poster Tender in #622 who is both a user of the said products and has a requirement for a item which is not available now, and apparently with no immediate plans for its introduction. The retrograde step is to say tough buy a flatbottom rail HO scale product, rather defeats the object of buying in scale bullhead turnouts.

At the risk of asking an obvious question, why take a deposit for an expression of interest? Surely you can just log expressions of interest, then when the EOIs hit a magic number press the metaphorical green button and at that point invite deposits?

I guess its a bit like what came first, the chicken or egg.  A lot of these small suppliers are modellers who make things for themselves then supply to others, this is fine if you have a day job. On the other hand if you are trying to make a living out of it it must be a benefit to know if the product you are producing will sell. Quite often many show an interest in a product, but for whatever reason that's as far as it goes, a deposit shows a commitment to buy. My old firm gave us a free Christmas party, however those going were expected to pay a deposit. That way the owner knew how many would turn up (money was not wasted on no shows) and the deposit's were spent on gifts for our partners. Everyone knew why deposits were required and were happy they were used for extra gifts

Providing someone has clear trading terms, then it is up to the individual to make up there own mind. 

But not as fiddly as sanding down the bottom of each chair, which would be the logical alternative.

Bernard

And remove the bottom plate part of the chairs

Oh ok they're the equivalent of tesco value motors are they? 

K's kits were made at a time where RTR loco's were few in prototype covered and most kits were both expensive and required parts (wheels, motors, gears etc) being sourced elsewhere or used RTR chassis, also it still was a time of austerity,where money was tight. Tools were limited hence glued and screwed construction was the favoured method of that era

K's came along with a cheap complete kit, initially with good (for the time) pre-quartered wheels and bullet proof open framed motors. Possibly ahead of their time K's moved into making plastic parts for their kits along with changing their wagon and coach kits to plastic, etched brass coupling and connecting rods were also included. In theory the idea of a more modern motor and plastic centred wheels (which the likes of Gibsons and Slaters still use) was a good idea, but the motors were of a poor design and the wheels suffered with being taken on and off. The latter HMP2 motor included an in built motor mount

Having said all this some of the motors do work reasonably well, and if care is taken the wheels are fine. In short the motors were a disaster, I do have a set of the latter wheels(with no screws into the axles, which may prove better 

Like the famous Ratners faux pas, Tesco's beans opened would last longer than a K's HMP2 motor 

He is a sweet boy, has sat on my shoulder briefly on a couple of occasions.

At least the ballast will be P(eed)4 

The in-laws have arrived for Christmas...

 

IMG_20171223_111614985.jpg

 

He hasn't bitten me yet.

At least you will have a source of free ballast, that is once you have removed the bird poo