hayfield

My thoughts on this is that locos have to cross incoming lines to access the turntable, I accept that diamond crossings were common place on the railways. I just think the turntable would be on the other side of the incoming lines in practice. Not saying I am right but this would be my preference 

That's great, Martin. I was having dinner then I just had to test out Tim's half lap theory, so didn't go back to emails.  All here.  I'll move it across to my Mac this evening and report back.

 

First comment is that it works.  This won't win any soldering prizes, but that wasn't the aim.  Cutting with a disc is OK but I can imagine it's hard to control the depth of cut.  I will possibly consider a razor saw as an alternative.

 

Of course there are no check rails in place, so I'll play around with those tonight.  I suspect it will add further difficulty, but as always you just got to proceed slowly.  I've no doubt this process will develop as we go along.

 

Holding bullhead rail vertical is a challenge.  The half laps have to be a loose fit to enable you to set the rail gauge with a 00sf gauge and so the rail can move about.  I can see loads of lacemaking pins being brought into play once I set off down the road for real

 

DSCF9090.jpg

As an object/study in track building the proposed layout with all those crossovers is pure delight to the track builder, but lace making pins  ? Just use the processes you have become a master at, using slitting discs etc will end up with lots of rails with lumps out of them, but getting back to basics was there ever a shed designed like this ?

Go back to what I said previously Gordon - if you enjoy building track (a given) and fancy a challenge (another given) then go for the highly complex amendment for the shed track layout - it's your railway so build what you want to.

 

As I have said in terms of working the depot it really adds little and it is very difficult to find all but 19th century depots with trackwork that complex because that sort of thing vanished between the late 1890s and the inter-war period - some of the Southern depots that were killed by electrification were probably the last survivors.  Also the most complex layouts seemed to involve access to/from the running lines rather than being there for movements within the depot itself.

 

Interestingly, apart from a second running line access, Speke Junction shares a number of features with your original plan for Eastwood Town shed with a very similar locational relationship between the turntable, coal stage and shed building.  The only real difference is that fact that coaling and ash disposal/fire cleaning took place, even in the 1890s, on a double ended road thus engines could progress along it without having to come back out in conflict with others waiting to go in (a common principle at many sheds even back in the 19th century).  But all other movements were involved in some sort of potential conflict, especially to/from the single ended shed.

 

http://www.8dassociation.btck.co.uk/SpekeJunctionLocomotiveShed8C

 

Now an example - again LMS - of how things changed with Widnes (which has previously appeared on RM Web as it happens) providing the example.  Note here how the original dead end coaling/ash road has become double ended thus, again, allowing a through progression.  But note also that even the later layout still involves several points of conflict including one where almost every movement is likely to conflict with another.

 

Widnes - early layout.jpg

 

Widnes - later layout.jpg

 

Now the ultimate in keeping things separate  but look how much space it takes up.  Old Oak Common was very specifically laid out to separate inwards and outwards movements with everything coming in (or able to bypass if necessary) the two coal stage/ash & fire cleaning roads then into the shed and with two outward routes available completely clear of the incomers.  Another feature to note is the dead end siding next to the ashpits - somewhere to stand wagons to load ash but also used to stable engines not required to go into the shed for any reason.

 

OOC.jpg

These are a lot less fun to build, but do resemble steam sheds I remember, sorry for being a party pooper !!!

I am a part time dealer and also work in Oxfam Books sorting and pricing, and specialise in transport titles.  Prices have really dropped of late, and I have even had to cull some titles off the shelf unsold - mainly the generic titles, like British Steam Locomotives and the like.  Some of these appear im many guises, and normally go for about a pound if at all - as a dealer I won't touch them.

 

One of my main outlets is car boot sales, where I do manage to shift quite a few books at a (small) profit. 

 

It's worth a try.  But beware dealers trying to rip you off - at the end of last season, one such approached my wife and offered to take all of the stock for £20 - I had about 40 books on the stall at the time - no way.

 

You can get ideas of what prices that books are being offered for on bookfinder at https://www.bookfinder.com/

I am no book seller or enthusiast, but buy books either for plans or they are abut the subject I am interested in. For example I am thinking about building a model on Bodmin General Station, so books either on the line of other West Country branch lines. I bought 3 books s/h from Bodmin Generals bookshop for under £8 and another 3 from either Amazon and eBay all of which were only two or 3 £'s each, only a couple of years ago these would have cost 3 or 4 times the amount

I have a relative who dabbles in old books, he made me laugh when he stated book collections are sold in weight and sold as shelf fillers. I must have upwards of 100 books, a few are junk titles, most others are only of interest to a small selection of those who are interested in railway books, only a few (10/15) would have any real value, which looking at prices has halved over the past couple of years

The biggest areas of concern is the centre roads of 3 ways (which you have none) as the check rails are also wing rails or visa versa. If I am building anything complicated using a wagon or coach may not pickup any faults, so I find using locos to test (under power) is the best. In one way the good thing is you are building in 00SF and not what I call)  00 universal. do not try to be extra fine with the gaps, on the other hand not too generous

Normally I would work from the centre outwards, with this I think the large right hand curved turnout into the two diamonds would be favourite, then tacking the two diamonds in place until a smooth flow is achieved. Looks a good fun project, which I eagerly anticipate you starting. The outside slip is a bit close to a crossover, no doubt the master will come up with a workable plan   

Gordon

Its well within your capabilities, but as I said work out the electrics first, then cut the isolation gaps in the timbers before the temptation of laying any rails. Then check under power as you build as my only concern is building in 00SF with sharp radii crossings/ check rails in the obtuse crossings with large and long wheelbase locos

Put a few of the Middleton Press books on EBay, no interest as of yet. No great surprise.

The trouble is finding the right person at the right time, that is why they sell so cheaply. Good for the buyer not so good for the seller.

It pained me to see all my railway modellers go to the tip for recycling, on the other hand I have a large amount of plans. Just need to sort them out into those I wish to keep, the others will be put into lots and sold on eBay

I am sure your track building skills are up to it, and on the plus side the outside slips are easy to build, with the single slip just hinge the blades

edit

I would make all the isolation gaps in the timbers first so the turnouts and crossings can be checked as the build evolves

Totally agree with the replies that it is much better and informative to have someone available who can talk with the paying public and of course knows about the layout. Quite often at quiret times at shows this is possible, and much easier at smaller shows.

For some exhibitors manpower could be an issue either during breaks or through out the show itself. It could also mean in some cases that the costs of exhibiting will increase especially where overnight accommodation is provided.

And the economic units people who work at the old plants are just written off

The owners are making plans to try and save many of the jobs, sad as it is some jobs do become redundant failure to act could put many more jobs at risk,

I am someone who has had to find alternative employment in the past, so not talking from a capitalist point of view, its just the way its always has and will  happen.

Job closures in one area but jobs saved and or made in two other areas. The site is still there and can be put to better use either for business purposes or badly needed housing, either way creating employment

Whilst this may seem a bit drastic, buy a length of C&L thick sleeper 00 gauge track, at the same time buy a packet of the Exactoscale E4CH 403A 0.8 flangeway check rail chairs.

On the flexitrack cut away the inside chair, thread the check chairs on to the check rail, then cut the outside part of the check rail chair off leaving the spacer, you can then glue the check rail chairs on with normal solvent. Depending on the sharpness of the radii, it might be worth leaving a sliver of the inside chair of the flexitrack both to keep the stock rail in place and give a bit of a filler piece

What I have found is that both plans and books of plans still fetch decent prices, I actually bought a copy of Russels GWR coaches vol 1 without a dust cover at about a quarter of the price of one with a dust cover, for some strange reason his book on SR coaches is not as expensive

Try Amazon

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/0902888013/ref=tmm_hrd_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=1515241274&sr=8-14

Or eBay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2060353.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XPictorial+Record+of+Great+Western+Wagons.TRS0&_nkw=Pictorial+Record+of+Great+Western+Wagons&_sacat=0

I splice (stagger) one rail onto (not into as some do) the other rail, nothing wrong about the method Martin has shown and if you have plenty of time do it. Quite often making something that cannot be seen is very satisfying

As I have an EM Gauge Society Vee filing jig it is simplicity to make 1-5/6/7&8 angles, if you find it easier to join both at the tip, do it as the solder hides less than perfect joints, this is a case where over filing is better than under filing. The object is getting a free flowing angle, not a dog leg easily. 

In my vies its much better getting hung up on items that can be seen, rather than something that cannot, for example a modeller spends hours on getting the vee correctly spliced together, then just chops up standard chairs rather than fitting the correct ones which can be seen

We are just completing a complete remodelling of the downstairs of our house including a large wrap around extension, whilst we are going for a minimalist style for the kitchen family room our larger lounge will have at least 2 large bookcases as both my wife and me have reasonable large book collections, according to my daughter we should dispose of our books and buy Kindles. I have decided to annoy her by calling our new lounge the library !!

No doubt like our vinyl collection books will make a come back 

Sorry John, took me a while to understand what you meant.

 

Using switched crossings instead of a K crossings is one option and I seem to recall building one that way a while back.

 

Food for thought....

 

Edit:  Just drawn one up in Templot.  That's a possibility. 6 Tortoise motors on one piece of track would be expensive....

 

Just as well I bought several when they were £10 each. 

 

OK, Mike, let's assume I can build one.  Can you scribble out a pencil sketch of your proposal so I can see exactly what you were suggesting and I'll have a go in Templot tomorrow.

Gordon

Why would you require 6 point motors for a switched crossing? or as usual I have missed something

Re switched crossing always build 2 Y's back to back, or go completely the other way and build an outside slip, beware they are massive !!!

You are quite correct that there is  method initially of filing the tips of the rail on one side to the web, then bending the rails straight and then filing the other sides to the required angles. then you need to file a small rebate into the first rail to accept the second rail. Martin does have a diagram which is very clear in explaining this method

Given the stresses and strains of a model railway being unlike the real thing, if there is a weakness it is not weak enough to affect running or cause problems, on the cosmetic front owing to the closeness of the wing rails to the tip of the vee, it is not noticeable from normal viewing angles, especially in P4 gauge, soldering the rails together further disguises the joint. Finally we are talking about simple construction methods.

There is nothing wrong in nothing the vee this way, and if you like to make things prototypicaly that's fine. On the other hand this method may seem over complicated for the less experienced builder 

 

Picking up on Mike's point, I will always try and avoid slips as they are a pain to build and get tip top running quality.  I could possibly do it, but the curved slip rails have to be larger than 36".

 

 

How about a switched diamond if you want to exclude slips ?

If you have a local model railway show hire a small stand to sell the books and any other railway/model railway related items

I have noticed second hand books becoming much cheaper, bought two or three at Bodmin station for knockdown prices, then picked up a couple off eBay and Amazon, again for silly money

Brilliant bit of software, sadly I need a single sided 3 way very soon

I find the C&L HiNi rail the best all round product and against other nickle silver rail, its the less yellowish.

Personally I have kept away from stainless steel after the many replies stating the problems involved

With steel rail it does look a bit better, but I find it is both too soft (kinks easily) and rusts far too easily

I have been told wheels with steel tyres work better on steel rail, but that's mainly for the P4 and some EM gauge modellers

So presumably Colemans Hot English will now become a flavourless, gelatinous goop, just as seems to have happened to Marmite.

I had no idea that Marmite had changed, and rather than a dwindling brand the products which include Marmite has increased

I remember Geography at school. We were taught that industry had 3 inputs - raw materials, labour, and energy, with 1 output - the sales market. So you based your industry as close as possible to all 4. Anywhere else increased costs. What happened to these principles I wonder?

 

Stewart

Stewart

The major costs now have altered with labour being the most expensive commodity in many businesses, followed by property related costs, with the cost of transport not as high. It has been reported that after the other company closing its operation at the site, the site itself has become uneconomical. I can accept that whilst its still cheaper to mill the seeds in Norwich it is cheaper to manufacture and distribute the finished product at the other site

Like it or not we are in a period where most companies and organisations are looking to save costs wherever they can, with the major cost saving being manpower in most instances. On the other hand some jobs which were out shopped to countries where labour and manufacturing costs were cheaper, with automation reducing manufacturing costs the cost of transportation can be the overriding driving force.    

Has anyone tried the DCConcepts phospher bronze bullhead fishplates yet? I've tried the C&L solder-on etched brass ones with some success, but find they're difficult to use and get them even each side of the rail and they tend to break with expansion and contraction.

 

With the C&L insulated fishplates, I have the same sort of problem with the glue-on each side of the rail variety. Their other type with the plastic web between are far easier to use but not ideal.

 

Another thing the new owner of C&L might wish to address is the track gauges made of steel, all very nice but mine have gone rusty, not very helpful for accuracy when I have to use an abrasive to get rid of the rust. Brass would be far better. 

C&L also sell the Exactoscale range of fishplates, one piece plastic and brass which slide on to the web in the rail. Whilst being very fragile yje plastic ones are stromg enough to hold the rails in line whilst the glue is setting, both look supurb

The plastic ones are E4XX FP01 pack of 48 for £13

The cast brass ones E4XX FP11  pack of 12 fior £9.50

Link

http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=346_347_349

I only use the etched ones when I cut the head of the rail and solder the etches ones under it to represent a rail joint rather than join the rails

Most modellers feel whitemetal kits are far easier to build than etched brass ones, admittedly they tend to glue them together. I find soldering whitemetal easy with an Antex 25 watt iron

Step 1 clean parts

Step 2 hold the 2 parts together

Step 3 flood the joint with liquid flux

Step 4 put a piece of 70 degree solder on to the joint, never in the tip of the iron

Step 5 in and out as quickly as possible with a cleat hot iron

Works a treat every time, large parts easy to do, small parts if not confidant use super glue

For those who are unaware when selling this is the default setting, I mistakenly used this service twice wondering why the buyers opted to use this service when it was so expensive !! to me they (the buyers) are paying for postage twice, once from the seller to the Global Shipping Service, then again from the Global Shipping Service to the buyer at what I believe a massive mark up looking at what the buyer paid.

The packing is up to the seller, so I guess the poor packing is not remedied at the Global Shipping Service.

I now routinely remove this option when selling, as I do with pick and collect. I find international postage costs increases the UK postage by about 50%, and to date for the few items I have sent this way delivery has been quick,  mostly small lighter packets rather than heavy locos

Good point and as a result as a fee paying customer your not going to get a bargain by paying extra to get in before the rest off us customers.

 

I regard the model railway hobby a very "mature" hobby, most traders & customers know what a certain sort after article costs, for example in Hornby-dublo circles your not going to get a "City of Liverpool" cheap at a swap meet or toy fair.

 

As pointed out they are a good source of general model railway items like peco points, chances are a few other customers might be after a few as well, but most will have got what they want or not interested.

 

My view best "bargains" are found in car boots and charity shops, where someone has found an old boxed railway set in an attic, or selling deceased relative's collection, kind of know roughly the price from eBay and failed due to lack of specific knowledge the true value of the odd rare item.

That explains why one stall at the NEC recently had trays of American HO freight cars at £10 a pop....crudely repainted blue box Athearn that a different well respected Trader would have had bagged up at 4 for £10. With asking prices like that I'm sure my offer would have offended, and thgr only consolation is I'm sure whoever sold them to the trader must have done alright.

 

 

A little Knowledge can be dangerous, hence the poorly listed O scale Interurban coach dropping in price from £1500 to £950 because the seller is under the impression that it still has some prominence or is really worth what was paid to the professional builder. My offer of £40 for what is basically a freelance coach converted from RTR Bachmann G scale wasn't accepted...

  I don't go to Warley as been once and its too big, it is reported to be very expensive to hire a stand so I guess prices have to reflect that.

I have had good buys from other shows, club stands are very good, and believe it or not, some traders have not a clue on some items (non RTR), others overprice

Still think the best place to pick up bargains is eBay, just be very selective and patient

Jim

Just give the trader a price 4 times higher than you would normally be willing to sell at, and no haggling, that way both of you win