hayfield

I doubt that you would get that much for a K's 'plastic' motor.  If so - I'm a millionaire!

Seen them go for a tenner in the past, I guess if either you need to replace one or as a collector need one to complete a kit, you pay what is required.

Ruston, one way of reducing the cost is to sell on the wheels and motor + gears, might even make enough to buy the gearbox

 

Is the Pope a Catholic? Allegedly? I think there are quite a few reports on this thread alone which show that he is taking money. Small-ish sums, but still money.

 

Not really a fair question, since such accounts are unlikely to be published online if he is a sole trader. If, however, he is a company officer, then you have about 185,000 variations of "Paul Dunn" to search through....

 

Um, do you publish your accounts for the general modelling public to see, Bill?

Ivan

Is this a case that everyone should just shrug their shoulders and walk away, or is there a course of action a group could take at least to stop him trading, at best receive a refund

When this brouhaha started the collective assessment of Paul Dunn was that he was someone well out of his depth, which I concurred with. After reading most of post on this and other threads, and seeing him a few times at shows, I have seen nothing that leads me to change that assessment. The old adage of not ascribing to malice what can be explained by incompetence applies -- in spades.

Bill

I have met the chap at shows and came to the same conclusion as you have, which is unable to make the things work and perhaps due to this having cash flow problems. Neither of which are either a crime or unusual for some small businesses

However what is wrong is that he has kept taking money and refuses to return it, he clearly know there is an issue and has put up a statement not to send money, but seemingly happy to accept it

I guess he falls between criminal and civil law and with the police so busy with more serious crimes, I guess they will be happy to say its a civil matter. It seems that Mr Dunn has no problems racking up court judgements and knows  how to avoid any action. However he needs to be stopped taking money from customers if he either has no intention or not the means to supply the goods. I guess the last recourse is trading standards, who I guess will not do anything unless it can be proved this is a large deception.

In my opinion the last resort is for someone to take time collating all the information of losses, then give it to trading standards hopefully they will be able to take action

I bought it - for 30 quid. It's all there, untouched, in its box and everything shrink-wrapped to cards.

 

I expect I'll end up using the running plate and everything above it; the frames are very basic and the motion looks a bit chunky. The wheels look OK but the motor looks like something out of a Scalextric car, so I don't think I'll be using that and as it has some sort of built-in frame to take the axle and gear, a new gearbox will be needed too.

 

Still, it's not bad for the money - some time scratchbuilding frames, cylinders and motion, sixteen quid for a High Level 'box and 99p for a replacement motor should see it right.

£30 is excellent value, just look at what some want for their kits, both badly built or untouched

The chassis, wheels and motors were both of their time and built to the cheapest standards to keep costs down

The Nu-Cast LNER Sentinel Railcar with other items of the Nu-Cast range were bought by South Eastern Finecast.  Earlier this year they released several items including the Sentinel Railcar for GBP95.

I do not know if it is still available.

I read that the body is a bit heavy for the Tenshodo Spud, but not the Black Beetle Motor, so have held off buying one. 

 

I have some drawings of it so am thinking I might scratch build one in plasticard.  I have a Hornby DMU motor to fit.

 

Mark

Mark

As far as I know its not a limited edition, so should be available. I see it takes a 28 mm wheelbase power unit. Might be worth seeing if one of the Highlevel units would work

Measuring with a digital Vernier just now, comparing a Peco BH turnout and a piece of plastic base stripped from a modified code 75 FB Peco large radius example, I've found the following, although I wouldn't want to claim that any individual figure is more accurate than "to the nearest 0.05mm" at best:

 

BH rail height 1.9mm, total track height 3.9mm, sleeper / timber thickness 1.65mm. By implication, chair base thickness approx. 0.35mm +/-

 

FB rail height 1.9mm, thickness of sleeper / timber mid-way across, clear of any moulded plates / chairs 1.42mm, thickness of moulded base where rail foot sits 2.1mm.

 

Obviously these suggest a 0.1mm discrepancy in total track heights, which could be entirely due to measuring errors, individual or cumulative.

 

Again, the Peco BH rail examined from the side and from the end appears to have a foot (almost?) as heavy as the head.

 

 

If these figures really matter to some users, perhaps one of those with a more accurate measuring device would care to measure up some track as I have done and give us the results?

For all but the most hardened finescale modeller, the exact measurement is neither here or there, but thanks for taking the time to confirm they are the same size. The important fact is that it matches their existing track both in size and more importantly geometry. As the vast majority of users will use it straight out of the box

In one of the next replies there was an interesting answer to why its not quite bullhead, again does it matter, from normal viewing distances it looks right and I would guess most would not notice the difference anyway.

I do have a couple of other thoughts but they can wait 

Soldered/copper-clad is suitable for flat-bottom construction but not too easy to accomplish for chaired BH track. The Brook-Smith punched ply sleepers with brass rivets solved the problem of getting the rail the correct height above the sleepers but involved the tedium of fitting individual chair halves. Using ply or plastic sleepers and plastic chairs threaded onto the rail and then stuck onto the sleepers is by far the easiest route for those wanting to match the existing Peco BH turnouts. Ready made Vees are available to make life easy.

Jeff

Totally agree with what you have said, just two things to add about plastic chair construction

1  The bond between plastic chair and sleeper/timber is far stronger than Ply strip, as the grip between ply and plastic is dependant on the liquid plastic settling in the grain. This could be seen as a bonus as once fully dry the joint can be broken by carefully prying apart with a scalpel blade 

2 The chair holds the rail at the correct angle in the chair, it relies on the rail head being able to rotate within the slot in the gauge. If it is too tight then the rail will be held upright, after the gauge is removed the chair will move back into the correct position and reduce the gauge. 

It is also wise to allow the solvent to fully evaporate and for the joint to dry, so leaving some jobs to set overnight may be wise.

Use the thicker 1.6 mm sleepers/timbers as they match the height of Peco's track as the thin plastic (not ply) sleepers/timbers tend to curl slightly as the solvent drys out.

But not so good for soldered rail on copperclad. I need to build a diamond crossing to go with the bullhead turnouts for my new layout. I've had a modicum of success with building a soldered copper clad turnout but have yet to try a chaired one. Don't know whether starting with a diamond crossing is good or bad idea.

Tender

A diamond crossing is a very good start, as there are no moving parts, the tips for a successful crossing is 

1   A good plan, Templot is ideal

2   Take your time filing up the Vees and fitting them

3   Again take time fitting the stock rails, use a long steel rule to ensure that the stockrail at one end lines up with the Vee at the other end

4   The gauge in the middle will be slightly more than 16.5, as the central bends are curved, not a sharp angle

5   Just take your time making and fitting the rest of the rails, if you are unhappy with a part make a new one

Some may prefer to solder, others can easily use the Exactoscale range as two packs of E4CH 503A (obtuse crossing chairs) and some E4CH403A (0.8 mm Checkrail Chairs) will make life a lot easier, the latter will have to be modified slightly. This route will reduce the amount of soldering which puts off many 

Couldn't see anything in the Gibson catalogue, or Markits (not that you can buy from them...). The Slaters don't look right but might be able to do something with them.

 

Thanks both

  Rich

http://www.alangibsonworkshop.com/Catalogue.pdf

Page 17

LOCOMOTIVE AND TENDER BRAKE GEAR

Sets of injection moulded plastic brake gear that comprises of hangers and blocks. They are supplied complete with pieces of

straight 0.9mm diameter brass wire with which to form the pivots in the frames together with 0.45mm diameter brass wire for

the pull rods. The advantages of plastic brake gear are that it is the correct thickness and that the brake blocks can be fitted

right up against the tread of the wheel without any fears of electrical ‘shorts’

Code Item

4M100 GER loco brake gear (4’6” - 5’6” wheels) Price U

4M101 GER tender brake gear (wheels up to 4’3”) Price U

4M102 GWR loco brake gear (wheels up to 5’2”) Price U

4M103 GWR tender brake gear (wheels up to 4’3”) Price U

4M104 MRILMS 2F/3F/4F loco brake gear Price U

4M105 MRILMS Tender brake gear Price U

4M106 Class 03 diesel loco brake gear Price U

Whilst not exactly what is required one of these sets may give the representation of what is required 

U is £5.50

  I grew up along the West Coast mainline as a child watching steam locos as often as I could, but later on in life with my wife we used to along the canal from the Mill to the pubs by the lock, most of the time with the railway adjacent, often wondered what a magnificent sight it would have been seeing steam hauled trains racing past with their trails of smoke being left behind them

Think 'Hayfield' has hit many nails with his post & without requoting bits there will always be people who want to build their own and people who want to stick to setrack so they dont have to cut it. 

 

There are loads in between ease of use and appearance - not to mention skills/time etc.

- There are people like me who have built 10 points to get 3 working ones just to get better sleeper spacing - with no chairs  

If the people who always used peco ( ie. flexi - not set-track) think this is worth the extra outlay they have an absolute winner. 

- to my mind the difference in price is a better trade off than what we have seen throughout the rest of the RTR - loco's , but particularly passenger stock many of the new coach prices being in the £30 - £50 range wow! glad I'm freight-only  

 

Can we have mass produced working scale couplings next ? - COAT - DOOR - GONE hahaha

Russ

I can remember my first hand built turnouts, made from SMP kits. using only the flat bar gauges included in the kits, following the instructions and using the enclosed paper plan and holding the rails with panel pins. Needless to say built lop sided, out of gauge and worked awfully.

Fast forward to now, extremely accurate and detailed plans of every shape and size available using Templot, both our understanding of how plastic chairs and sleepers & timbers work along with the excellent Exactoscale range of additional special chairs, coupled with the availability of decent gauges and the online tuition and advice. There is little excuse if the will is there not to both have a go at building turnouts and crossings and successfully build a reliable working model.

OK there are a very small number who cannot make anything, then there are the time poor, followed by those who do not enjoy doing it, which is fine. But the joy I have seen with some who after a limited amount of tuition got from making a working turnouts, then see them go on and build something they could not have bought off the shelf has been very rewarding

Scaling from Peco's artwork it is 0.50mm. The exact prototype equivalent would be 0.58mm (1.3/4" chair base):

 

 

Martin.

This makes the C&L and Exactoscale ranges a perfect match for the Peco turnouts and flexi track with sleepers & timbers being 1.6 mm thick and chairs holding the rail 0.5 mm above the sleepers & timbers, ideal for both kit bashing and scratch building

Perhaps they have stopped them, Rich

 

 

Slaters Plasticard do a BR/LMS set which would do as a cosmetic set.

Are there any in the Alan Gibson range that will fit

Apparently Millets do camping mats, which are much the same

I have had a few likes and other ticks about constructing the common crossings without soldering up sub assemblies. The method translates equally well whatever gauge you are using, and I think is perhaps more relevant to 00 gauge modellers many of whom are daunted by the making of these assemblies.

Whenever demonstrating track building at shows, the biggest fear from modellers is building the common crossing (frog). Many seem un able to solder rails together and keeping the rails upright and in gauge, a simpler solution is required which hopefully I have shown 

When I first started building with plastic chairs I was in the belt and braces brigade. How could plastic on plastic hold in gauge, perhaps the thought of being able to fettle the flangeways were at the back of my mind. But with modern wheels being so much better quality now and using the correct gauges, if there is no gauge problems in plain tracks, they why should the be any issues in holding the gauge in crossings, providing that is the chairs used are up to the job. This is where the Exactoscale system comes into its own, I have found in most situations they work as well in whichever gauge chosen, a few chairs are gauge specific, in certain situations it may be switching to the next size up or down as the length of the unit and sleeper placings will differ between gauges. Or as in the check rail chairs a simple modification to the chairs and how they are used

All I can say is that anyone who can build one of the more detailed plastic kits around can build their own turnouts, probably with the same tools they have collected with the addition of a few gauges and being aware of what they need to buy.

Owing to a house move 2 years ago and an extension plus a remodelling of the ground floor, this year modelling has been on the back burner, perhaps a sister thread on simplified 00 gauge turnout building is required using these parts. 

The adapter pieces are generally in use in the stabling area because I was short of code 100 flexi and had bought some lengths of code 75 so the running is primarily done on code 100.

 

All stock fitted with up to date wheels.

Strange that your RTR stock derails, the hand built stock may just be down to lack of side play on the drivers, weight of the pony trucks/bogies and or the back to backs of the wheels in them 

I would closely look of what derails and where

Now the initial dust has settled I am extremely pleased with both the take up of this new track system and its acceptance (no moans) of the style of the timbers or the price

Going back 2/3 years ago those who were complaining about the lack of any 4 mm scale 00 gauge track from a main stream supplier, were constantly being castigated by the RTR track zealots, the thought of having the correct size timbers/sleepers was unnecessary, and it was an easy but time consuming job to re-space the sleeper spacing. As for the complete new design of off set timber placement, if anyone suggested that they would have been strung up from the nearest water column. As for premium prices ? modellers would boycott such an affront to cheap bulk track supplies

Fast forward to the present, bullhead track being bought in bulk, then as it happens turnouts appearing relatively quickly with a radical new sleeper design at a premium price. The fact that there are few if any dissenting voices is a warm relief but with posts like #602 where great care and consideration is being taken over track laying is proof enough that track is becoming as important as every other sphere in railway modelling. A big thumbs up for Peco for listening and acting on consumer requests, also great to see modellers supporting this new range and voting with their wallets 

Ben

I have no idea about the WS underlay, but have used the C&L 3 mm closed cell foam and unless your switch blades are exceptionally stiff there should be no issues, in fact I would guess for solenoid operation it would act as a damper. If it does move when the point motor throws it it will go back to shape.

The best way of laying the track is ct cut out the shape required (don't bend strips round curves.). Coat the baseboard and the underlay with either Copydex or any other latex glue, allow to dry then lay the closed cell foam in place, the glue will work as an impact clue.

Next apply neat glue to the track, put in place and allow to dry

Finally with ballast, use a 50/50 mix of glue and water and apply to ballasted area with an eye dropper after misting the area with water.

It does seem there are less items that I am interested in about at the moment, probably buyers and sellers are focusing on other matters, or think there will be more money about after Christmas, or even too much post in the system

I have picked up the odd item at a good price, but as usual most of what I follow sells for more than I want to pay

Once I get my items unpacked in the new year (my new modelling room nears completion) I will be having a bit of a clear out, as I have just got interested in Bemo HOm (after playing with one of my locos 10 days ago) these still sell for serious money, but the small layout which was planned has just grown slightly.

Turn them on edge. C & L sell strips of 0.6mm copper clad that is ideal for stretcher bars.

 

Gordon A

There are other ways of hiding them, or use the third timber as the tiebar

The undercab wheels I mentioned are to do with the rear wheeks under the cab on a steam loco ( my apologies for the confusion).

 

Track is a mix in code 100 & 75 with peco adapter pieces used to connect them together

Do you have some older stock with coarser scale wheels ?

Finsbury

Copperclad tiebars are fine, easy to make and install, the issue really is on looks, if so there are plenty of ways of disguising them

Mersey

Welcome to the world of track building, which can be very rewarding but also frustrating

A question first, are you using code 75 or 100 ?

I can see the advantages of trying to re-use parts from an old turnout, this course of action can cause more problems than they solve

Except when you open up a turnout into a Y when you are increasing the radii if curving a normal turnout you will be reducing the radii

Now if you are trying to use the existing sleepers with chairs still on on a larger radius turnout, this may cause a dog leg or as you put it looking like a Y point

I would firstly get some decent plans, Templot is a great start and a plain point (turnout) is so easy to make. Forget Peco's geometry, decide which materials you are going to use (copperclad or chaired construction), buy the appropriate materials and gauges

The simple answer to question 1 is yes, may be difficult re-using the parts from a Peco turnout though

Its strange that all your locos are derailing on large radius Peco turnouts, might be worth buying a back to back gauge to check the wheels are in gauge, on the other hand the trailing wheels under the cab may either coarse scale and or have the incorrect back to back measurement (gauge)

As for your hand built locos, the issue may be that you have built the locos with insufficient sideways movement, the driven Axle should have very little sideways movement, the other drivers should have some side play (to allow them to go round curves), another issue may be that the pony/ bogie wheels may be too light

To question 2 if the copperclad tiebar is double sided then gap both sides, I would also build the turnouts where the switch blades are totally isolated from the Vee (common crossing)

Had a word with the chap from 3SMR and the chairs are for code 60, which might be a better size for HOm & HOe  but like the ides of slide and check rail chairs from the 3 mm Gauge Association.

If anyone has any of the 3mmGA chairs and rail surplus to requirements I am happy to buy them

I think there's a lot more to this kit than a Jidenco.  I was always told (though I've never handled one myself) that Jidenco were more "parts for the scratchbuilder" than they were "kits" as we think of them. 

Its the same kit that Graham built, but I have to admit I've never heard of EJ Sharp before. 

As for the instructions, I've got one double-sided sheet with a diagram of the loco etchings, and very basic instructions for loco and tender construction.  However there is no diagram of the tender etchings, so I'm convinced there's a bit missing.

Here's a scan of the box lid:

 

K10 Box Scan small.jpg

 

Cheers, Dave.

DLT

The Jedinco kits were as full as most, requiring wheels, motor and gears + couplings of course, from memory not much in the way of slot and tab, but very nice brass turned parts, whitemetal castings were OK as well. They were just difficult to assemble, hence the word scratch aids were often used

Looking at photos on Google with the main line locos on shed plus looking at the map put up in another reply the turnouts will be large, if you are hand building the turnouts then download the plan into Templot, that will give you some idea. On the other hand you will be limited by what you have space for