hayfield

Hi John

 

MEK is methyl ethyl ketone, with the formula CH3-CO-CH2-CH3, which is an isomer of Butanone.

 

The formula of MEK hasn’t changed, although whether what was/is sold as MEK contains only MEK or a mixture of other things is less clear.

 

Best

Simon

Sorry, Simon, but MEK is not an isomer of butanone, it IS butanone.

 

Not being a chemist I am not in a position to argue about the finer points, other than pass on others thoughts/observations/knowledge from other threads. Never used what was/is sold as MEK-PAK in the old days for track building, apparently the new version of MEK-PAK is not as good as Butanone for sticking plastic chairs to plywood timbers and sleepers

Perhaps where the difference is not MEK that we were/are using but MEK-PAK ?

Hi folks

There is know doubt about it Templot is a very  good program program. But it has a very steep learning curve maybe to steep for me to grasp fully but any problems in my case have to be me

I model in TT 1.120. and all the clearances i require are all there,so because this information is not easily found the program is excellent

I have made 6 curved points using templot and after a lot of effort they are well worth doing and work very well.

i have to admit i can not grasp how to make 3 tandem curved points by being able to draw point diagram sorry but i must be to thick!

But have made 2    3 way curved points a LHD and RHD   actually points are 1 straight 2 curved.

I started by using templot by Altering a  long curved point  to the radius i required when i was happy printed out cut out and tried on track when curves were right i then placed the diagram on clean sheet of paper and then i drew the straight mainline in, and after much messing about trials and many many errors  i successfully. stretched until all clearances were correct.

I then started to bulld the points but then had to adjust the length of point again to make enough clearance for 1st curve blades to move,then discovered that the blades were so short i had to hinge them.

then i had to work out the electrical side and ware the breaks should be again problems had to stretch again.

and finally i got to try loco through the points i use a fixed axle 0-8-0 if that goe's through every thing else will

Last week i got to fit the 2nd point in my lay and everything works fine

so i so wished i could have just drawn my three way points with templot and everything be perfect first time

I know i did not pay for templot but i would be willing to pay for good instructions to do things like above project from the emails above i am not alone with problems

i hope i have not bored you experts out there if i have sorry as i plainly are not

thanks all dirk

Dirk

May I suggest you join Templot club if you are not already a member

Next is to try and copy the 3 way instructions in the format you need

Once you have hit a problem, then upload the file and see if anyone can assist you.

I have found that if you try something and get stuck there are a few who are willing to assist

Good luck

MEK is butanone, so Wikipedia says.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butanone

 

Best

Simon

It has been reported in other threads that the MEK which is available now has a slightly different formula now than a few years back, Butanone is more like the original formula. I too thought it was either more aggressive or slower setting 

I also arrived late at the show, the only problem was the only free paint left was gold or silver.

 Same for me, I took a couple of pots of each, one for the wife the other for my daughter as both do the odd bit of painting and crafting. Seasonal paint for them. No idea if any other colours were available

Actually, IMHO one of the disadvantages of a preserved line is its variety. The real railways, regardless of period, tended to have rakes of coaches and fleets of the same locos that were dedicated to particular lines, all in much the same liveries for any given point in time, so not really much variety if you model a single location. On a preserved railway you tend to get quite a mix of stock, liveries and locos from pretty much all over the place.

 

What is more challenging with preserved/heritage lines is the off-line paraphenalia, like half rotted away coaches covered in tarpaulins (which to do well would take as much work, if not more, as building a coach kit to use for running); rusting locomotives (ditto re coaches); lots of passengers in a variety of garish clothing, rather than a few in similar clothing; etc., etc.

Ian

Sorry to disagree with you but like others I am planning a layout based on a preserved railway, the reason is that it is the best fit for my modelling activities

My interests are building track, K's kits, whitemetal locos and other types of rolling stock. My main loco interests are with the GWR and SR and the various livery's plus I also like certain locos from other companies

Modelling a preserved railway allows me to use models from various companies with differing liveries and the emphasis on locos.I have about 16' in length so it best used for a branchline terminus. Now I can have a small rake of  SR coaches pulled by a large tender loco from a different region

Take Bodmin in GWR days, not many trains a day, perhaps a tank loco in the engine shed

Bodmin now has a 2 road loco shed plus a 2 road repair/workshop, as many locos as I like/layout can hold and can run as many trains as I like

Now if my interests were different I may have gone for a BLT based on the Prototype/region/era that interested me.

Last Saturday went to the Chelmsford and District MRC's show. Lots of narrow gauge layouts which I enjoyed plus the clubs 0 gauge layout which duly impressed, a pleasing show which has a completely different charm to the larges scale/society shows,

What's this got to do with a good buy, well I found 3 Kirk SR coaches, partly painted which I snapped up for £10. I then found 2 packs of Slaters 7 mm coupling rods, a Skinley 7 mm plan of a LMS Sentinal Steam rail car, 4 brass 7 mm loco frame spacers, 2 wooden roofs and one floor (Ratio or CCW) all for £4 then at a s/h book stall the Peco Publication Jack Ray's a lifetime with 0 gauge for £1. I arrived late at about midday so not as I was breaking the door down to get these gems

I picked up a few wees ago some Slaters 7 mm wheels and chassis, I was going to but the frame spacers (as the chassis was missing 2) from Markits where one would cost me more than the lot. The coupling rods are £15 a pack and should be able to alter them to the desired length as they are laminated, the wooden roofs and floor will come in handy repairing some wooden coach bits I have, and the plan will be framed up for my new railway room.

The moral of the story, go and support your local shows

Brian, sadly when people come to that decision, thoughtfulness for others is probably the last thing on their minds.

My daughter has to deal with those who take their own life, mostly its not very pretty and not only affects those who are left behind, there are those like the train drivers just doing their job and get dragged into it, also those who have to pick up the pieces or tell relatives.

I don't think any of us really know the despair those who take their own life are going through and there is a world of difference from being depressed about something and being mentally ill through depression, easy to blame it on the modern world by 50 years ago my fathers work colleague lost his son (who was in his early teens) to suicide. Perhaps now we are in a very materialistic, less caring society. Where as in the past the local community would be there for support.

There is also a massive drug problem which descends the user into mental illness which in turn affects others through crime and anti social behaviour. I guess we have been there before with the decline of previous empires, society reaches a pinnacle then self destructs.

No specific date that I'm aware of Nick. As mentioned in previous threads they are in production, and have been for a few weeks, the source for that info a senior manager at Peco around 15-20th Sept. The images in the Railway Modeller review are of Production items, source Steve Flint, editor RM.

 

As they are new products I suspect Peco have X orders and are making Y, that being a small excess of the existing trade orders. This being a new item my guess is that they'll want to see the reception of them, they could fly off the shelves, or gather dust, no one knows yet. As I recall from when I was in the retail trade, Peco will despatch the orders en masse so all eligible retailers receive them within a day or so of each other.

I would also they will want to both make enough so all retailers can have stock from the same time, plus I guess as its a new manufacturing process they will be closely monitoring the quality control

They could though be copying the Apple sales module, build up the demand by making folk wait to create a greater desire to own them, look at all the free publicity they are enjoying   

I'm wondering if anyone else using Peco components has had bowed turnouts.  I've done several, and they are all bowed due to the timbers doing this:

 

P1010001-001 by John Kendall, on Flickr

 

I included a C&L timber at the bottom. 

 

Perhaps I'm doing something wrong.  I used Butanone to fix the chairs (Peco) so maybe the solvent is too aggressive and weakens the timbers.  The only obvious difference between Peco and C&L is that Peco are hollow and C&L solid.

 

I haven't done any with C&L timbers so perhaps that's a next step.

 

Thanks

 

John

Was there any more thought about why this happened, I know in 4 mm scale the C&L thin sleepers/timbers suffer the same fate which I believed is caused by the solvent drying and shrinking on one side only. Would a less aggressive solvent be advisable

The reason for the question is that a local model railway club wishes to replace a small complex on its layout and rather than use copperclad the Peco products will not only match their existing turnouts and plain track (which is Peco) but will also be cheaper.

I see the inside jaws of the Peco chairs are slightly lower, will they be slightly more slightly more forgiving to a wider range of properity wheels

I think that having to import Butanone from UK to here is a bit of a faff.  It has to be shipped by courier because the PO won't take it and the cost is very high.

 

I went to my local auto parts/ housewares/hardware store today (a bit like Halfords I think) and got myself this for $18:

 

P1010002-001.JPG

 

I decided to do an experiment:

 

P1010001-001.JPG

 

I took C&L (brown) and Peco (black) chairs and used the MEK to attach them to Peco timber, C&L timber and a scrap piece of C&L ply from a Timbr Tracks base.

 

I threaded a piece of rail through each chair and pulled on it, in every case where plastic is joined to plastic the chair jaws broke and the fixing stayed.  On the ply, my first test failed with both chairs coming off.  I tried again, this time the Peco chair came off but the C&L chair stayed on.

 

I think I'll be using plastic timbers going forward.  I know that I can happily use the MEK without fear of running out.

 

HTH

 

John

John

I am surprised the chair jaws broke, with both 4 & 7 mm chairs I prepare the rail ends by filing them to make sliding the chairs on easier. Perhaps the solvent weakens the plastic after its been applied, may sound stupid were you using code 125 or code 145 rail?

As for the solvent, most plastic solvents will work with plastic to plastic. Both Butanone and the older formula MEK may be too aggressive and a less aggressive solvent may be preferable. As for plastic to ply joints, Butatone is far superior than many other aggressive solvents, you need to melt the plastic into the grain of the wood. I have no idea if it melts the plastic more or it takes longer to evaporate, what I do know if you are re-sticking a chair back any solvent is fine as the ply has plastic dissolved into the grain of the wood

Had a look in my loft but sadly came up with a blank, I have 4 Terriers but they may not have come in their original boxes.

I do have a set of instructions for a K's coal tank, whilst an 0-6-2 with the exception of the rear bogie, the chassis construction is much the same.

It is the earlier 70 series which has pre-quartered wheels and a double ended metal motor (mk 2 I think). The 80 series used plastic centred wheels with the axle holes being a D shape (to assist quartering) and all but the earliest kits came with the single ended plastic HMP2 motor.With the exception of fitting the wheels to the axles the construction is similar.

In the absence of any other replies happy to scan and send 

I've recently purchased a K's Terrier kit on eBay but the kit didn't come with any instructions on building the chassis.

Does anyone have a copy of them for this kit? 

To be quite honest the instructions as such were just an exploded diagram, and any 6 wheel instruction would surface. Depending on which version (wheels and motor altered) screw the frames together, bolt the motor to the chassis, make the pickups, fit them and solder to the motor.

I will have a look in the loft (all models packed away as having a new railway room built) to see what I have

Normally if the wheels and motor are the newer plastic versions might be worth swapping them for better quality ones

Thanks for that, it was the Ultrascale ones I was thinking of. not sure if I'll live long enough to receive any though!

 

 

Tim T

Tim

I converted a Keyser chassis to EM gauge using 40 thou black plasticard, think it was a basic one where the frame was drilled with 1/8 holes rather than bushes

I cut the plasticard to size, stuck one side to the side of the chassis, once set I drilled through the plasticard using the holes in the brass chassis as a guide, once done repeated on the other side. Very quick and accurate, 30 thou might give a bit more movement side to side just measure the width of the chassis, then subtract the back to back and a bit for side ways movement

Just had a check, an etched EM chassis has a width of 13.7 mm. A K's chassis 11.6 mm. Had no problems with the K's 57xx going through A5's

The other trick with a k's loco is to put 2 x 1 mm washers between the frames and spacers

But for propriety models a lot of cutting the details off the sides will be required

John was right with "less".

 

Peco sell it by the yard, not metre. So if there are, say, 100 sleepers in a yard length, there will be 109.36 sleepers per metre. "Fewer" doesn't make sense with fractional amounts. "Less" is correct for sleepers per metre.

 

To some extent it depends how it is punctuated. Are you referencing the sleepers, or their frequency? Fewer sleepers, per metre. Less sleepers-per-metre.

 

Martin.

That's the first English test I have ever passed, Phew!!

Well it certainly makes a change for Peco to be selling 00 track as H0 rather than the other way round.

 

Interesting that they are making a selling point of the UK manufacture.

Next they will be claiming "as used by Mr Barniar" or "by royal warrant to Mrs Merkel" 

Or "Buy now and beat the tariffs" 

Thanks all, was going to have a look in Poundland type shops and others which may sell cake decorations.

There are three of us, the basic structure has been thought of, but the other area is lights and decorations up for discussion

Before I reading a few posts on here, I thought the DJH kits were the top of the range within whitemetal loco kits, the kits being highly detailed scale models. I can understand that going back into the 60's when loco bodies were adapted to fit existing RTR chassis, certain models had the wrong wheelbase, Also the much maligned Keyser kits which in some cases like the 14xx  where the footplate was too short, but its a surprise given the reputation of this range to find these issues

Thank you Hayfield and Graham.

I was surprised by the lamp iron positioning too, but I am working from a photo of 2516 on Mike Morant's site, I might resite them if I can find a clearer (or older) photo

 

I am lucky in that this came with wheels on plain axles rather like Gibson ones. At some point I might well swap the wheels out for modern ones and replace the connecting ride and crank pins eye.

 

Swapping the drive gear out was surprisingly easy.

I thought the wheels and gear wheel were firmly fitted?

Three of us have been asked by the local Church to have a Christmas tree with trains running through the branches in their decorated Christmas tree weekend, now on the hunt for N, 00 and 0 gauge Father Christmases, likely to be narrow gauge stock 

A great bit of kit bashing, like the idea of changing the motor and a Highlevel gear box is so much superior to the old Keyser gears. Looking at the kit it seems you have the older style of wheels, how easy was it changing the gear wheel ?

Thankfully Keyser made thousands of kits, many of which were either not made or poorly made. The latter catagory can sometimes be snapped up quite cheaply, normally easy to both strip off the paint and un-stick the parts. With a bit of effort many pleasurable hours can be spent rebuilding ans adding additional detail. One word of warning is the problem with the newer D type wheels (plastic spokes) and HMP2 motors (plastic bodies) Both of which often require replacing

You can sometimes pick up a well made items for peanuts, I just bought a very well built Adams Radial tank with Romford wheels but no motor, easy fix to fit a motor and pickups

November_Loco_Revue_2017.png

 

There been a lot said about the new bullhead points and track..but not only are they for the british market

 

Peco advert from this months Loco-Revue.

 

 

Gary

Gary

This put a big smile on my face this morning, how long will it take our friends the other side of the channel take to realise its fake H0 . One thing having cod wars with the Icelantics but track wars with the EU is another game totally. Mr Barnier will go spare that they are getting less sleepers per meter. First fake news from the UK now Fake H0, next we will be making better Champagne (some say we do already)   

Getting back to the factual stuff, not as far as I know, I'm currently liaising with Peco on a regular basis and I'll try to remember to ask next time I speak with them.

The existing CD75 insulated fishplates work with no modification, and to improve the cosmetic look you could trim them back and perhaps overlay with C&L plastic plates or some made from microstrip. Neither of the cosmetic options would assist with robust rail end alignment.

If the track is being stuck down then the Exactoscale plastic fishplates are fine, as are the metal version, these metal ones are much stronger but do not insulate. In my opinion these look better as they do not have the rail joiner underneath  

Always quote Larry's posts, the deletions and edits make a mess of threads sometimes.

 

This thread immediately brought to mind this.

 

 

 

So we have H0 being H0

Then H0 being H0/00

But now we have 00

But then again we have 00 being H0

So which ones are the Known, and which are the unknown, followed by the known unknown,  finally we have the unknown unknown

I think I am off to model GN15 which I guess is an unknown known unknown

Final bit of fiddling for today.

 

Got me check rail gouges out and done some more stickin' and gluin'.

 

IMG_20171023_162933771.jpg

 

IMG_20171023_162944251.jpg

 

Chucked the other curvy one on too.

 

IMG_20171023_171511203.jpg

Where are the chairs?

Ooh - err.

 

I just (like, 3 hours ago) built my first turnout using Peco bits in place of the C&L laser cut ply that I have used in the past. So far, no problem. Let’s hope it stays that way!

 

Pictures on my PD thread, link below

Best

Simon

 Simon

Which solvent have you used please