hayfield

Rich

Don't worry, as someone who has modelled for years I have never had this issue, though I can see it could be an issue and perhaps if I wish to build my locos to be DCC compatible it would be wise to insulate both sets of wheels.

Back to your issues with the valve gear, you have chosen one of the harder types to build as a first build, cannot help you with this one 

I think you have to go with the track plan that gives you the most enjoyment; hang accuracy! It is a model of a preserved line so anything is possible.

 

This is the best advice of all, on an 8 x 4 baseboard you will never fit an accurate scale model unless you model in T gauge, even then you may not have enough room. Call the layout whatever you like, enjoy building the layout (using modellers licence) and running the trains. Dont forget you can run visiting locos, how about a nice big King or an A3 

Have a look at Highlevel kits, not used their bogies, but their gearboxes are stunning, the owner is so helpful. I have a Pacemaker to fit into an old MTK railcar, not quite the same but the quality is exceptional

http://173.254.28.51/~highlev3/chris/Pages/bogiepage.html

Thanks for the further replies and the continued support ratings.  It all helps.  Rest assured, I am certainly not minded to take this lying down, though I am giving them an opportunity to experience a change of heart before I roll my sleeves up and get stuck in to the legal and regulatory details.

Good luck and I hope all goes well, certainly ask for detailed bills and unless you have had several years of accounts not been agreed and extra work has been undertaken then I cannot see what they are asking for. Its up to them to give you a statement of accounts for each year, if they have failed to do so then that's their problem not yours

So, the consensus is that I should go with that Peco plan but I'm "allowed" to model it as if it were the Bluebell and run those engine on it? Sounds good to me. 

Its your model railway and using set track is a good idea as it can easily be reused if you decide to alter the track plan, purists will advise you differently, I and others will recommend that you have chosen a great method for a first layout, just enjoy the direction this layout takes you as your interests develop and as new skills are learnt 

My next layout will be bases like yours on Bodmin General, but in preservation era, so I can run both GWR and SR locos in varying liveries. I too thought of a bit of kit bashing for the buildings plus altering the goods yard slightly, as the turnouts and crossings will be hand built I have decided to build it to EM gauge, I have mostly kit built locos with Romford/Markit wheels so a quick chassis rebuild and axle replacements is all that's needed

Great set of photos and more would be interesting, thanks for the thread

Apologies - I re-read where I got it from (which was a DCC based thread) - it's ANY model with a live chassis and metal buffers/couplings. If one is connected to one rail, and touches another that is connected to the other rail - sparks.

I guess its the same in this instance for both DC and DCC, normally the couplings keep stock apart, and most wagons and carriages have insulated wheels. Excellent point to consider though 

Just received a still packed Keyser TT scale 97xx pannier tank body for £7 plus £3.50 p&p. Just like buying K's kits and may try and put an etched chassis on rather than the Triang TT chassis

 

Some older motors (e.g. the X04) have one insulated connection and one implicit connection through the metal body of the motor.  Since the motor is fixed to the chassis it receives current via the uninsulated wheels and live chassis.  There is a separate wire from the insulated motor connection to the insulated wheels pickups.  That is the arrangement that won't work for DCC: it's not the live loco chassis that's the problem, it's the live motor frame.  Most modern motors (e.g. Mashima) have two insulated connections and the motor frame or can is not connected, and are fine for DCC with a live chassis.

Just put a bit of plastic tubing (stripped from a piece of wire) on the non insulated side, both brushes are insulated from the live chassis, no cost solution. Makes no odds if the frame of the motor is uninsulated, as a can and open frame motor (Anchorage etc)  bodies touch live chassis without any issues, as far as I know this is fine for DCC operation

I have just re-read Martin's last post several times & he does not imply this at all.

 

He also said "It's extraordinary how folks can read what they want to read in a post, instead of the actual words."

Unfortunately this seems to be a lot of this all over this forum.

Nothing wrong with either constructive comments, words of warning and good advice. But then there are some who for whatever reason just take offence

Aha, so its the SEF chassis that has the P4-specific spacers, not the Branchlines. I had thought it was the other way round, as with the SECR "C" class.

Branchlines may well include P4 or EM gauge spacers if requested. I bought the kit off eBay and the parts were enclosed, as it is a revised SEF kit no idea why the chassis was changed, still in 2 minds about using the Branchlines detail packs and may revert to a SEF chassis

The original intent was to take the real-life track layout, and fit it into my 4ft x 8ft space. Ulrich and I can work on making sure it stays accurate- but honestly I didn't think it was too different- just bent significantly to fit my table and allow me to have continuous running- an absolute must with any layout I will ever do. I think I'll stick with the Bluebell Railway for my first project, but I will go have a look and see if there's anything else that interests me. If set-track is limiting in your opinion, what is a better alternative? 

I should not worry too much, it's your railway and if you are happy with your interpretation then that's fine. Railway modelling is full of compromises and if you only have a small space in most folks books that's OK. It's mot as if you are modelling in P4, just enjoy the hobby as that's what its all about

Very useful John. That answers all my questions. Still have to go through SEF as the vendor doesn’t post to Canada.

 

Cheers,

 

David

I listed it for the photos, and was not sure anyway whether you wanted the whole kit or chassis, if you have an old kit Dave is happy to supply the additional parts that the revised kits have in them 

I was hoping that a dearth of orders might signify an issue with the website as it won't just be our three orders in limbo. Also trying to work out if this was the day job or just an extra, in which case the contact issues would be explained

 

The plan is to visit the Manchester show in December and catch up with Phil as they are invited, but see he is booked to go to Reading. Might have to wait until April before he ventures North again

Phil is working full time with his C&L project, don't forget a 2 day show takes 2 days extra to pack up and un pack, being self employed can be a bit of a culture shock plus sometimes the simplest jobs take longer than expected, also systems have to fit within the businesses budget and owners skill sets

Rather than hearing about  theoretical potential for failures can we just wait until we can try these out?   If your back to backs are incorrect sort them out using verniers to measure them and ease them to the correct back to back..

 

It is important that potential problems are pointed out, IMO Peco have come up with a good solution and problem wheels is not Peco's fault just the age old issue of 00 standards being too loose. Most modellers who use Peco Products never check their back to backs. Those who build their own tracks (if they wish), can firstly chose a standard that fits the stock they have, and (or) ensure that both track and back to backs match

 

.do the theory drivers reset handbuilt points to "fit" odd bits of stock which has incorrect back to backs? More fool them if they do!

 

Some do, most would change the wheels to match their standards

 

Peco should be applauded in trying to update their track rather than pilloried for "potential"  "theoretical" opportunities for it not to work??

 

Read my and others replies and that is what most of us have done, who has pilloried Peco

 

 

and to think we were using Triang Super 4 (Series 3 or Standard) when I first started 2 rail modelling way back in 1967... after my early years using tin plate 3 rail Hornby Dublo track...

 

Seem like , in the eyes of at least two people commenting on here no matter what Peco offer it will never be good enough.  remember not all people can build pointwork (indeed some can't build plain track panels) so let us just wait for real life trials before any more theoretical "it won't work" please?

 

In narrow gauge (009 & 0 16.6) I use Peco products, so if your statement is aimed at me then you are very wrong. Selling H0 track as 00 track in my opinion is wrong. But no one has said it will not work, just with some of the coarser scale wheels available (just like hand built track) there may be issues. To be quite honest this design is very much the way similar to how hand built track is wired and modifications some make to older styles to improve running. One of the persons who your moans are aimed at even suggested that the switches could be a good basis for kit bashing turnouts into other sizes, hardly running it down , it seems a good product which is long overdue and it seems welcomed by many. Going back two years there were many non track builders stating the existing products were fine and 00 scale track would never catch on as there is little/no demand for it, lets hope they get some flatbottom track for the modern image boys in 00 scale

 

 

I  am one who has had poor service from them in the past. I have found they have a wonderful tracking system which actually shows how bad they are. The first point of complaint is they only pick up once a day (normally midday). So if the seller deposits the goods after 1pm its not picked up till the next day

Given that the Royal Mail has several pick up times, latest on average is 5pm and is not too much more expensive (customer pays anyway)I rather the item arrives in either one or two days without any hassle.

Here is a listing on eBay for a SEF P class chassis

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/South-Eastern-Finecast-FC167-SR-SECR-P-Class-0-6-0-Chassis-Kit-Etched-N-Silver-/311980849850?hash=item48a381faba:g:dKgAAOSwAj5Z3JsU

As you can see has P4 spacers, has half etched cut out for compensation if required, good set of photos for a change

I have just bought a book Bluebell Railway Locomotives As they were, only cost me £2.50 and I see there is one on Amazon for the same price. I am more into building locos and most of the locos I have kits for.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Bluebell+Railway+Locomotives+As+they+were

I will be building a layout based on Bodmin General in preservation era, but with SR and GWR stock in various liveries. Plan to adjust the track layout slightly and stock of my own preference 

Depends if it's new stuff you're looking for or old stuff.

 

For new bargains follow the RMWeb bargains thread and subscribe to updates and newsletters by email from the likes of Kernow, Rails, Hatton's, Model Railways Direct etc, so you get first news of any discounted items. I find Bure Valley Models and Track Shack to have consistently competitive prices, and excellent customer service too. Derails prices also are very competitive especially if preordering.

 

For old stuff, as well as eBay etc it's worth a read of Railway Modeller classified section for private sales. Model exhibitions are where I normally pick up my second hand stuff at good prices, especially from clubs and societies rather than the traders.

 

All the best,

 

Keith

Agree with all these places, plus sometimes the smaller shows have good value traders, then of course there is the club stand. Not been to any swap meets for years, are they still going ?

It's a very large part of the hobby too. That very point demonstrates that the confidently declared "standard according to Martin Wynne" is NOT necessarily the universally accepted "correct" view in the hobby as a whole, nor need it even be the majority view, no matter how many times Martin Wynne tries to tell everybody that his opinion, definition or method is the "standard" one. Electrically isolating hand made points are commonplace, as is the view that OO represents standard gauge reality as opposed to some fictional prototype, and we don't all believe that pointwork constructed without neatly numerical crossing angles or with tighter-than-prototypical curvature is rubbish. This applies no matter how much Martin Wynne and his followers repeat their statements.

 

I'd rather not post contentious replies of this sort, but if false and contentious "universal truths" are asserted, they have to be countered.

It makes no matter if you build your own turnouts or just plug and play, poor electrical connections or short circuits will cause issues whoever you are

With this system, some (not all) may encounter either poor electrical conductivity and or the possibility of short circuits. For me it seems good advice for a simple warning of what may occur. If it helps one person only then its been worthwhile.

There are many who excel in this hobby who always recommend additional power feeds rather than rely on push fit rail joiners or better quality switches rather than simple wipers to change polarity. Its advice which you can chose to ignore, but given the range of 00 wheel specifications are and have been available in the 00 gauge RTR market, might just be good advice 

Well, I was not aware that Branchlines even did a P chassis and from my side of the pond the SEF one seems easiest to get, that was why I asked. All that said, which one would be better for P4 as both seem to be etched.

 

Cheers,

 

David

David

I bought a SEF P class loco from eBay, it not only had a Branchlines chassis but also a detailing set, which includes etched footplate, cab front, floor and back, buffer beams and steps, also cast back head and brake lever. All of these parts are in whitemetal in the SEF kit, looking at the instructions the SEF chassis may be more detailed with inside cylinders, but not too certain if it comes with EM/P4 spacers and cylinder comparability. Have a word with Dave Ellis at SEF

Edit

The branchlines kits come with 2 sizes of spacer 00 and EM/P4 so the SEF may be the same

 

I personally moved away from this procedure in my general method of construction because I could not control the rail alignment at the hinge and this led to derailments.

This was why I moved to soldering the switchblades to a solid base. I assume that the fishplates that you use are more rigid than the Peco ones that I used for code 100 track.

 

 

 

Ian T

Ian

I built a turnout using code 100 flatbottom rail to a similar size to a Peco small turnout, as the rail is so stiff and the blades too short to get any flex I used a Peco plastic rail joiner as a hinge. It works very well, Code 75 can be built this way using N gauge rail joiners. However using the cast metal fishplates work a treat with bullhead rail

You obviously inhabit a different part of the hobby from me. Here the electrical switching is kept entirely separate from the mechanical operation of the points. Polarity switching of the crossings is via relays, and traction feed to the tracks beyond is controlled from the panel, via the interlocking.

 

 

The other members of the team would have questioned my sanity if I said that to isolate a locomotive you must set the points against it, instead of switching it off on the panel. In some cases there are several sets of points ganged together on the same lever. It would make a nightmare.

 

Martin.

Martin

When I first built SMP turnouts they had a method of the central piece of metal on the tiebar (being connected to the common crossing by wire) touching one of 2 pieces of wire soldered to the sleeper behind it. And if memory serves me well Marcway insulate the stock rails from the switch rails and common crossing, so the polarity is changed when the tip of the switch rails touch a stock rail. Not saying either is desirable, or have no issues regarding operation etc

Could you actually be accused of receivng stolen property for an eBay purchase? I realise that its loss is a possibility. On the other hand the seller would have to be really stupid.

 

Toyfairs/swapmeets and eBay are a good source of bargains (usual caveat emptor). Post and packing sometimes tends towards the exorbitant. I add the two together and if it's too much don't buy.

eBay would be equally liable, and would be in court several times a day.

The key thing is to make sure your purchases are not "Hot" especially if buying on Ebay because a Police caution for receiving stolen property as well as losing your purchase can leave a nasty taste in the mouth.  

 

Just look at Paignton Model Centre which was turned over last week,  I bet someone has had a great bargain buying some of that stock off ebay, or at a show, probably not at a car boot or put.  Swinging open ones demob mac to reveal a package while whispering  "Pssst, wanna buy a BR Green DCC fitted Dublo Flying Fox mate?" is going to attract unwanted attention down the Fox and Rabbit innit?

   

The big advantage of buying a loco over the counter is a decent model shop will test the loco for you, that way they can legitimately say "It was fine when it left here you must have muggered it up or dropped it."

 

That said my local model shop, Cheltenham Model Centre, does some good deals for mail order and I am a very satisfied customer for something like 40 years.

 

If you are going to super detail locos buying second hand is a good way to save a few quid as long as you get a relatively current model, likewise there are a lot of old locos still unused for sale new to catch the unwary, My father in law  bought my son two "New" Bachman split chassis locos  at Christmas so beware.   Odd liveries are notoriously unpopular so a blue SDJR liveried loco plus a can of Poundland matt black spray can be a good solution for a BR Grime liveried loco..

The vast majority of sellers on eBay are honest traders or modellers. Looking at the adds plus feedback you can quickly assess whether the traders/sellers are genuine. If someone is new or the item is not described well, just take extra care. I cannot see anyone getting a police caution from buying an item off ebay providing there is no collusion between seller and buyer, and you have recourse from both eBay and Paypal (if used)

Word of warning when buying from any auction site, just check the item as its listed and look at the photos. If its not as described/damaged in transit/not arrived and the seller is not playing by the rules just go through the eBay dispute process. If buying from a trader you have distance trading rules where you can reject the item 

As someone who prefers making models eBay is a fantastic resource, I have recently bought a Southeastern Finecast M7 which has been well built but missing a motor for £33 and a well built Nucast Adams Radial tank for £39. £4 will buy me 4 EM gauge axles and I have a spare motor and Gearbox fr the M7.