cbeagleowner

Just in case anyone would like to put their thoughts to the East West rail folks you can check out the proposed routes and give them your thoughts here: https://eastwestrail.co.uk/haveyoursay

HI Rob, Thanks for the posts - sorry it's taken a while to get back to you. Thanks for the Marcway tip. That's useful. I'm trying to look through my books and see if I can see a trailing 3 way on a mainline - my instinct is that the Midland would have avoided them...I don't know why that's my instinct though! I really love your picture - feel free to stick a few more on or a link to your blog. Lovely weathering too! I'll write more when I get a chance - maybe later tonight! Yours Richard HI Rob, Thanks for the posts - sorry it's taken a while to get back to you. Thanks for the Marcway tip. That's useful. I'm trying to look through my books and see if I can see a trailing 3 way on a mainline - my instinct is that the Midland would have avoided them...I don't know why that's my instinct though! I really love your picture - feel free to stick a few more on or a link to your blog. Lovely weathering too! I'll write more when I get a chance - maybe later tonight! Yours Richard

Hi all Did a little bit of bodging in the loft to see what old MD would look like in the loft. Seems to fit in ok though due to where the hillside is, what was north becomes south and vice versa. Fiddling has put a few random thoughts / questions in my head...If you have any thoughts do chip in with them! Positives for changing More operational scope More interesting signalling Negatives about changing More points = more money 3 way on the inside loop not being available in Bullhead is a headache. Could it still be called Litton and Cressbrook bearing in mind if it was located where it was the bay would be facing south. Less part of the real world. Questions Does the up station starter have to be before the single slip? Would it be possible to combine the Up (LH side) distant and home into one 3 aspect colour light signal I'm puzzled by the signals on the diagram for the bay. The distant are kind of on there twice and I just don't understand! Is the Down home on the Up starter post? My thanks in advance! Rich

Looking Excellent J (as ever!) The mimic panel looks lovely. I tried to get my head around some of the control systems at Peterborough show. Am I right in thinking that the panel is 'mimicking' what the real situation on the layout is at a given time? So you can control it all from one place? Does it do signals etc or just points? Sorry if these are ignorant questions! Rich

Had a trip up to Millers Dale yesterday and took a good load of pics. Hope they are interesting! First, some of the station building and environs. Two points of interest are what might be a signal base for the Buxton platform starter (???) and the large piece of rock in the trees which was the 'stop block' for the Bay run round loop - probably not a place to have a crash! The pic of the Lst face is the entrance to station quarry. The signal box would have been roughly opposite where i was standing. Next some of the limestone faces. I think that painting Lst is a tricky thing as it looks different based on where it is, and how long it's been there. So I took a selection - I was surprised by the amount of red! Third some pictures of the lime works and kilns - including inside. If anyone knows what the steel in the ground is, please do say - I've no idea! Fourth, I'm building a 3 arch viaduct for the layout so Millers Dale Viaduct fits the bill nicely. Again a few surprises in that it' got a lot of white staining and also much brickwork or various types! It also seems that the piers are straight from the arch join, not angled. Though I may have that wrong. My hand shows that 4mm wood for the sides probably would work. Fifth, I was taking pictures of brick and stone work for Peter Smith or Kirtley Models to make some PDF's - I'm not sure my kids thought I was cool, but hey-ho! If they are useful to you, please feel free to use!

Thanks Paul - call me Rich btw! No need to apologise either - I'd like to get it as right as I can as I think I'm starting to work out that operation is the thing that I like the most. I'm not so au fait with signalling so it's great to actually learn! But I apologise if I ask a daft question below! Thanks re the banner repeater. I guess that makes sense particular as I think (if memory serves correctly) that there is a short downhill into MD station so it would be a good place to floor it to gain some speed for the continuing gradient to PF. Re the station diagrams: Just for context here is the 1966 MD station https://signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=898 Here is the pre widening diagram https://signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=873 It seems from the latter that there was still a distant and home on one post before the widening and the splitting distant was added in its place. I wonder if you're right about the doubling up of the signals as the boxes were very close - 400 yards max I'd say from my little walk yesterday. Being honest I don't understand what a signal being 'slotted' means though. One thing I think I know (!!!) about the Midland is there were on 'home and distant' posts times where the homes were always set to danger and the distance were the only ones that moved. I guess to form either an 'yellow' or 'red'? Thanks for the explanation of TC! That's what I thought they might be, but I guess they're not going to make much difference to a modeller (or are they?!). doing say if I'm wrong! Thanks again for your help and your thoroughness! I look forward to hearing from you again!

Looks great. Is that a mimic panel?

Happy new year to you too Tim! Hope all is well with the family. Thanks Barry for all the info. We have similar book collections I think! It's inspired me to do a better list which I'll upload here a bit later. I also might well do a bit of virtual transporting in the peak and get the sightings. Sadly kits are beyond my skill set - I do like your Caprotti black 5 on Chapel - I love the whole layout!

Family has gone to Tesco...every little helps eh? re my signalling thoughts... Litton and Cressbrook would fall between the line controlled by Monsal Dale to the South, who's last signal was (in the 50's) a colour light between Cressbrook and Litton Tunnels. To the north the line was controlled by Millers Dale Lime sidings, located just to the South of the viaducts. I've copied out plans for both below. Monsal Dale Signal Box Millers Dale Lime Sidings Company Signal Box (Its proper name) I have tried to translate these onto the 1897 OS map though I do have a couple of questions. See the link below. If I were to try to signal Litton and Cressbrook, it's pretty much the same as pre-widening (PW) Millers Dale. I have also managed to find a signalling plan for that on a forum which I've drawn out. The job would put to add that into my map controlled from Litton and Cressbrook signal box. If anyone has any thoughts please do give me a shout. While doing this, I did begin to find myself thinking though what if I just used pre-widening Millers Dale as the layout and assumed it never got 4 tracked. It's not a terrible stretch of the imagination I suppose. It would also add the operational interest of having the Buxton shuttle and a lie-by too. and more interesting signalling. also there is a viaduct in pretty much the right place on the layout (though not a tunnel) I might try that out in the loft today / tomorrow. The other option I thought of would be trying to do an 'expanded' Monsal Dale station. The viaduct, (though too small for Headstone would be in the right place so I might have a fiddle with that idea too as I take my eldest to Chesterfield later!

Thanks Al! Hopefully I'll make some more progress over this week then when I go back to work the rate will slow massively! I know that it would have been served by the Rowsley - Millers Dale pick up - whatever target that was I can't remember. I'm going to do some signalling research today before visiting a few kittens! I've found a very helpful site with I think all the LMS signal diagrams on it. https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/lmsdiagrams.htm I can then use the old Scottish Library maps which have the signal posts indicated to work out which are where. https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15.99&lat=53.2527&lon=-1.7607&layers=6&b=1 And of course, it's good to have a link to David Hey's E.R. Morten pics. As DH says - simply the best! http://www.davidheyscollection.com/page52.htm

Thanks for the post - I'll be taking some close ups of your excellent restaurant car soon! I slipped it into the background like and Engine Shed teaser. Hope moving plans are going ok.

I finally got time to do a bit of track layout testing. So if you would like the grand tour on board the Palatine no less, have a look below! Firstly, in case you're interested in baseboard construction I did it by doing a framework with struts, then I've got some 3.5 inch timbers. On which I've put the ply. It's probably not the best way to do it, but It gives me a middle and bottom level so the railway can be more 'in the environment'. Any, out journey beings as the mighty Palatine (ahem) speeds northwards out of Cressbrook tunnel which seems to resemble part of Stonehenge! You start to see the goods loop and the 2nd siding. Creeping into view are the three tracks of the crusher. It might be that there is a better design for the tracks here...needs work. Also there should be a 3 way at the far end too, but I didn't have a third template! We approach the slip to allow up trains to enter the goods yard. There is about 6ft of 'plain track after this in the up direction before Cressbrook tunnel. I'm not sure if this solves the problem of being too close or not... As we turn the corner we see the crusher / quarry / etc track quite a distance from the sidings. The idea here is that you have one of those classic 'Great Rocks' scenes where the quarry and main lines are separated by a stone wall or even a rock formation. Any excuse for a bit of geology! We then start to enter the reverse curve into the station. I was quite taken by Dave Frankshaving FB as well as BH track. He said you could get sections going into stations where the engine would put it's brakes on and the track would be worn quicker. I don't know if I should do it at both ends of the station. And I need to cut the webbing and space the sleepers like the BH. There seems to be a train in the station...whoops. Happily though it helps us see the layout of the station and goods yard! After magically passing through the train in the station platform, the Palatine continues on it's climb to Peak Forest, going over Ravenstor Viaduct, and then entering Prisetcliffe tunnel, which again displays a certain Greco Roman style in it's portal. Then we enter the fiddle yard, which I have no idea what to do with...All change!

Thanks for the thoughts Al. It just sucks really... Tim is the man with the info on the Rams. From memory it's something to do with getting water from the river to the quarry. It seems to have been stored / pumped to the below.

Sad day today as we found out our 6 month old kitten died. Seems like he got run over even though we live on a fairly quiet road. We'll miss him very much. But back to railways. I think you're right about that crossover - I should have seen it before, but that's really about getting the Buxton train into the bay I think... According to Bill Hudson originally this was a lie-bye which then had the loco release line added. I was wondering about a lie-bye, but thought it impossible. I'm just not sure that you would have one barely a mile from Millers Dale... Interestingly the quarry to the South of the station...is that bold venture?...because of the cramped site had to take portions of train out of the sidings and then form it up on the main line. To say there was all the other traffic going through that was a pretty amazing excercise on a 2 track mainline!

Thanks for the replies - particularly thanks to you Al for raising those points. Tim also thanks for the help you've given on the 'heavy' stops in the past. I've attached below the Millers Dale pre widening track plan. I've tried to copy it but it might simply be that I've got something wrong here. so if you spot anything please do point it out! It also shows station quarry and the beginning of the limeworks to the left (north side). Before the 4 tracking they were very much independent of each other. I don't know if they were connected in any way. I've attached some pics that I took last year - excuse the little helpers in the pics. Station quarry (just to the north) Limeworks (further to the north) Limeworks to the South on the west side of the line - bits and bobs still there My thoughts on the tunnel thing are that I could pretend that 'Priestcliffe Tunnel' is just a short one like Great Rocks or Chee Dale #3. Would that help the signal siting problem? It would be nice to have the junction signals for Millers Dale there as it would add something but hey ho. Re the other end I'm not totally sure what to do about the up line entrance to the goods yard. That would need to be on a single slip but as you say going into the tunnel wouldn't be a goer...and because it's set in the 'real world' I can't make Cressbrook tunnel shorter!I think my options are a) compromise on the layout and put it down to compression b) somehow find a way to have a single slip in the curve, but that's beyond me. c) Make the scenic break a bridge for some reason as opposed to the tunnel... d) something better I've not thought of! Any thoughts would be appreciated! Millers Dale trackplan.tiff

Looking Great Al and a super prototype! Hope that you're doing ok otherwise - we'll have to get that Peak rail visit in sometime!

And now a track plan...It's based on Millers Dale pre 1905 widening from the 1897 OS map. The map of the pre widening station in 'Through Limestone Hills' is slightly different as it doesn't have the extra siding parallel to the goods line. I'm assuming that the OS is correct on this one. Mainline points are large radius bullhead. Minimum curve on the inside (up) line 36 inches. Because of the physical boundary of the river on the real Millers Dale the goods yard layout isn't classic midland as at Bakewell / Hassop with the goods shed coming off a loop and being parallel to the main line. But even with 22ft for me to do that would have meant the head shunt going round the corner. Also that would have made the crusher trickier! I have a few questions for experts... 1. Would any of the buffer stops have needed a Midland 'heavy' stop? I understand that they were generally placed where a train might have the potential to plough through them. 2. Re signalling - I envisaged moving the 4 doll distant / home signal for Millers Dale to the front of the viaduct. Anyone have any other ideas on the signalling please? 3. Would a limeworks such as at great rocks be better then the crusher arrangement? On the OS map is just says screens on MD station quarry and I'm not totally sure what they are in the grand scheme of things! 4. I have real issues with the fiddle yard....but that's one for later...

Ah! I’m on my phone so don’t see everything. I would highly recommend people having a look!

Cheers Tim. I think you’re right on both counts and that your thought to start a thread was wise! Do put a link on to your super thread too!

Thanks for the kind comments! I’ll post some pics of the current work when I get home from the in laws. ‘Chard: Dave ‘MadMcCann’ smith nearly got me to model the Waverley as I could have nice scenery and NE Pacifics etc which was very appealing. However though I live on the GN and mum introduced me to Raised me on thnow the pull of home was too strong. And Rule 1 means still have a selection of NE motive power too though I try to have stuff that has some tie to the midland. To that end I thought I’d post something about the current loco fleet. Ive got most of it, though Still some stuff that I need to wait for as it’s not produced as yet or as with the SLW 24 Iissedot. I’ve put this as NYP. Peak line stuff 1. Blue Pullman 2. Class 28 - late crest 3. Class 44 - late crest (NYP) 4. Class 24 - late crest (NYP) 5. 10001 LMS black 6. 10203 BR green grey roof 7. Derby Lightweight - early crest 8. Rebuilt Scot BR Green early - Green Howards - 20A 9. Unrebuilt Pat BR green early crest - Derbyshire Yeomanry - 45509 10. Rebuilt Patriot BR green late crest - Prestatyn - 45522 11. Britannia BR green late - Morning Star - 70021 12. Jubilee BR green early - drake needs changing to Madras 45575 - S4-R - 14B 13. Jubilee LMS black - LMS 1946 with BR number SFB - Canada 45553 - Fowler 9E (NYP) 14. Jubilee Experimental Green - 45604 SFB - Ceylon 20A S4-W (NYP) 15. Black 5 BR lined black early crest - 17A 16. Fairbairn tank lined black early crest 17. Ivatt 2MT late crest 19. Compound lined black late emblem 41157 20. Compound LMS crimson BR number on front 934 on cab in serif as per photo 21. Crab plain black BRITISH RAILWAYS (NYP) 22. Super D plain black early crest 24. 1F no cab BRITISH RAILWAYS (Rowsley shunter) 25. 1P 58072 lined black early emblem 26. 4F plain black late crest 27. 3F plain black - change to LMS serif with BR number in serif 28. 9F plain black late crest 29. WD plain black early crest 30. Robinson 04 plain black late crest (the one I have a pic of is an O4/8 but I have the original) 31. Jinty plain black late crest (kicking about at Rowsley) 32. Fowler tank BR late crest 33. 8F - 8510 Change to LMS on tender with BR number on cab as per photo. 34. Stanier Mogul riveted tender BRITISH RAILWAYS as per Hassop pic 35. Standard 4MT (4-6-0) - late crest lined black 36. B1 BR lined black early emblem Stuff that’s been on the Midland at some point - I only have the pig so far! 1. Flying Pig double chimney plain black plain black 43001 in BR Gill Sans with 1946 LMS on tender. Bletchley shedplate 2. Clan 72009 Clan Stewart - BR early emblem seen at Kettering 3. L1 67769 / 40E or 67729 & 37 from Stratford As used on coal train trials 4. O1 as per steaming through Northamptonshire 5. V2 lined black early emblem as per Kettering 6. Garratt with LMS block style BR number 7. Princess Margaret Rose - overhauled at Derby when changed from blue to green. 8. Rebuilt Scot ‘royal Iniskilling fusiliers’ LMS 1946 with BRITISH RAILWAYS On tender. 9. 10201 BR black - work on trial at Derby Stuff I like: 1. J50 BRITISH RAILWAYS black 2. A4 Sparrow Hawk BR Blue - did reach Millhouses but not until it was green 3. A3 BR Green early crest / 52B / Captain Cuttle (from Ladas) 5. B17 BR lined green early emblem - Hinchingbrooke - B17/2 until 1957 - it’s where my kids were born 6. K3 lined black - tender need changing from Early crest to BRITISH RAILWAYS - K3’s got to Chesterfield later on. 7. Coronation ‘city of Sheffield’ (NYP) Stuff I like but doesn’t exist (yet) 1. Caprotti class 5 low running plate 44757 early crest 2. W1 BRITISH RAILWAYS Garter Blue 3. A1/1 BR blue early crest - Great Northern / NT tender spoked wheels 4. A2/1 BRITISH RAILWAYS apple green - Duke of Rothesay - could be BR apple green or early emblem 5. A2/2 BR early crest lined green - Cock O' the North 6. A2/3 BR early crest lined green - Ocean Swell / 117 boiler / NT tender 7. A4 woodcock BRITISH RAILWAYS experimental purple 8. 2F 58125 LMS serif on tender & LMS tender 9. Caprotti standard 5 late crest 10. 2P 40520 LMS serif 17A 11. 10100 BR early black 12. 10800 BR early green unlined 13. Princess Margaret Rose 46203 in BR early crest green

Hi All, With a little gentle prodding I thought it might be time to start a thread for my loft based layout 'Litton and Cressbrook. This is my third major attempt at a Midland Layout. The first was Hassop - you can find a thread for it here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64017-hassop/ The second was Stoney Middleton - a fictional what if assuming that the the Duke of Rutland hadn't let the railway go via Bakewell and the Midland built the potential route to the Hope Valley at Grindleford Bridge. I have a few photos which I'll stick below but I never took many. Tunnel mouth and Bridge by Freebs, black 5 weather by Maxstafford. I started to alter this but then we moved house and I got a better loft and 2 years later I'm now ready for track laying. To give you a little taste I'll pop a few photos below. This brings me to my latest project - Litton & Cressbrook. I wanted to model a real place but didn't have the space, so what I came up with what super-imposing a station on the mainline. This means I can use the timetables and train formations that actually went through the peak but still have something 'made up. Therefore the idea is that a small station was opened at Litton Mill with a road being built on the path of the footpath. Thus Litton Bridge became a road Bridge. There is also a small quarry opened near the entrance to Cressbrook Tunnel for a bit of variety. Its track work is based on the 'pre-widening' Millers Dale. Because I want the layout to represent the major features of the peak, further North, I've played fast and loose with the topography - some streams have moved slightly further north and have cut into the hillside to necessitate a small viaduct, and where in real life there is a cutting, there is now a tunnel. I basically drew this on the 1905 OS map - if this image shouldn't be here i'll remove it! I think the thing I've I've laid down some standards for this layout Control - Ive got a Z21. Seems ok. I would like things automated like points and signals but I'm not going down the full computer control route. Track - OO Peco Bullhead - Points will be motorised be DCC concepts Cobalts. Not sure about the fiddle yard though...ballasted with geoscenics limestone (after a wash) Locos and stock - accurate and weathered...by someone good - I've always gone pristine before. As train formations are generally shorter I can run accurate ones, though I play a bit fast and loose with the exact CK I use (for example). Eg below is the Liverpool Nottingham...spot the unlikely open coach! Buildings - I'm going to have a go at building my own - I'm taken with Peter Smith's method with papers, though I do love Jeff's stuff on Kirby Luneside as well and I'd be willing to have a go! Scenery - as above - it's the bit I enjoy! Anyhow, this is getting rather long, so rather then droning on any more, I'll hit post!

Geoscenics do actual ground limestone - I would recommend giving it a rinse first to get rid of the fine dust but I think it works well

This is great news. I dropped Hattons an email a few weeks ago suggesting they re-release (not that I think my email really did much to help the cause!) In terms of the model I thought it could benefit from blackened handrails and on the rotary bunker the ledge thing needs to be extended a little - I wonder if this was what affected the size of some of the numbers which were too big. However seeing the cosmetic improvements made with the class 28, I'd be hopeful!

Power of the LMS 2-6-0's would be another one