Norton961

I have made a start on Gordon’s excellent chassis kit. Closely following the instructions after bending up the firebox I soldered it up and then noticed the next instruction” Do not solder” that will teach me to not read ahead! Next job is to assemble the chassis. David

The Stafford - Shrewsbury workings could not only see the usual Stafford and Shrewsbury locos ( Standard 5s, B5s, Fowler and Ivatt 2-6-4 tanks) but was used by Shrewsbury shed for “ fill in turns” so Edge Hill rebuilt Class 7s ( Re built Patriots and Re built Scots) having arrived at Shrewsbury with services from Crewe going on to the south, would come off the train at Shrewsbury ( having handed over to a GW region loco) and then be used by Shrewsbury for a return trip to Stafford on the stopper) before working back towards Crewe later in the day with an express having taken over from a GW region loco. When I moved to Trench In 1961 I saw most of Edge Hills Class 7s in the space of a few weeks. I trVelled behind a number of re built Scots from Crewe North as well (46148 being one). There was also an evening freight around 4.30 which called in the MOD depot at Donnington and this would have a variety of motive power, including most of the Jubilees re allocated to Burton on Trent shed as well as 46155 The Lancer (Crewe North Re built Scot) and a Llandudno B5. There are lots of details in my book from Crowood Press. David

Perhaps you could get some 3D printer to make some motor mounts. Talk to Modelu, they may be able to help. Scan in a good one to get some copied. David

Have now found the photo of the BRCW 2 car unit used for the Stafford - Shrewsbury for a short while in 1964, before it reverted to steam untill closure in September 1964. The photo is from Bob Yates book The Shropshire Union Railway by Oakwood Press, and the photographer is Michael Mensing. My understanding is the DMU was needed elsewhere so was transferred away and the service reverted to steam for the last few weeks of operation. The only other time diesels were seen my me on the line was the result of diversions. Around 1962/3 the West Coast main line between Crewe and Stafford was closed for a few hours so trains travelled Crewe, Market Drayton, Wellington and Stafford, so I saw and heard the thunder of a few class 40s, the rest of the expresses being steam. David

Can anyone tell me how accurate the livery for Sherwood is and how far back is that livery appropriate( ie can it go back to pre 1923) . David

I loved next to the line near Trench Crossing untill 1966 and diesels were extremel rare on the line between Stafford and Wellington. For a short time a diesel railcar set was used on the Stafford to Shrewsbury services but were replaced by the usual 3 coach trains hauled by the usual crowd of Shrewsbury’s and Stafford locos. Regarding the Fowler 2-6-4 tanks used on these services, the Stafford regulars were 42309, 42389 and 42400. the only Diesel I saw was D5083 on the Irironbridge coal train. David

Looking at the details of Lilleshall locos in the book by Bob Yate (The Railways and Locomotives of the Lilleshall Co) the liveries are not always noted, but it appears that No3 the ex Taff Vale Railway tank was painted "light green" and we now know that the Lilleshall built No6 was also painted light green. I suspect that any locos bought in by the Lilleshall Co second hand would have kept the livery they arrived in, presumably in most cases black. I am attaching a detail of No6 showing the livery. The loco was transfered to the NCB in 1950 when the Lilleshall Co pits were nationalised but I suspect it did not do much work before being scrapped in 1955. The structure in the background is possibly Lodge Furnaces. David

Fantastic to see a colour photo of a Lilleshall built and operated loco and showing the livery to be a light green with red rods. The green looks similar to the Peckett loco green, but would like others opinions. David

Another of the smaller manufacturers, the Lilleshall Co of East Shropshire, who made a range of iron products as well as coal and a small number of locos.

Found this photo which may of interest showing 3689 and 9793 at Cwm Prysor in 1961 showing cement wagons and a bogie bolster in the train. I dont know who the photographer is. David

I aquired this photo some time ago showing one of Shrewsburys Caprotti Standard 5s with an 84G shedplate (they were later swapped with Patricroft for the normal valve gear locos in the late 1950s) but for the life of me I have no idea wher the photo is taken. Can anyone help?

I mentioned the IRS article further up the thread and have posted the article to Gordon today. The photos I think may have been taken by my good friend David Cousins as I have a number of his photos, but I can’t be sure. David

First the good news, Allan Baker did an article for the IRS magazine called “Bagnall 16” Locomotives”. The bad news I have the article, but not the date or issue it was published in. The article includes a nice side and end drawing, plus photos of the engines in the service of the Butterley Co, Birchenwood, Preston Docks, Flora ce Coll, Cadley Hill. Gordon I can photocopy if it helps. David

Gordon, count me in for one kit, I will dig out some photos I have. Kit seem to think there was an IRS article about the locos, I will have a look to see if my memory is correct. David

Here is a photo of 46166 showing the yellow stripe only between the cabside linning and not from the top and bottom of the cab. 46152 shows the line covering the whole cabside. 60512 is shown at Polmadie and also the line does not cover the whole cabside. 60522 also had the stripe as well as 60527 also seen at Polmadie. Not all 4Fs had the stripe it depended on the chimmney height. David

The stripes were applied at depots and had to be completed by 1/September/1964 when the ban came into effect, so the stripes were seen on some locos in the last 2 weeks of August. Because the stripes were applied at the depots there were some variations ( despite each depot being sent a diagrams) so some stripes went from cabside top to cabside bottom ( diagonally) others went from the cabside lining ( top corner) to the bottom right lining, so in essence not the whole cabside. So the answer is look at photos of the loco you are modelling. For the first few weeks after 1/September there was some confusion, a train left Crewe going south with a Jubilee at the front, a few moments later the train reversed back into the station with the fireman pointing to the yellow stripe! The A2 Pacific’s that were given stripes as they were allocated to Polmadie so in theory could travel down the West Coast mainline to Crewe. David

If you want lots of locos, Crewe works would regularly send 2, 3 or 4 locos coupled together from Crewe to Whitchurch where the locos and bearings would be checked before going back to Crewe. The combinations would include B5, 8F, Rebuilt Scots, original Patriot, Duchesses, Princesses, WD. David

An update on the slow progress of buil;ding Lilleshall wagons. Attached a photo of some wagons using the Coast Line transfers and 2 old pre printed Cambrian wagons. For these I painted in the strapping a very tedious job!

Etches received and just ordered the gearbox and hornblocks from High Level, already have a motor and wheels. Will start next week but no promises as to a finish date! I have already removed the standard couplings on the Peckett and fitted it with 3 link couplings. David

Re being trialed on BR I think it was trialed in the Sheffield area for a few months. David

Anybody noticed that one of the photos of the Type 2 on a train has a pair at Claytons banking! Apparently they did not stay very long, but interesting that there is photographic evidence that they were used for a few weeks. David

With the mass transfer of the 80xx to the western, this was also the case of the 76xxx BR Standard Class 2-6-0s transferred from Neasden to the Western region. I saw a bunch of the ex Eastern 76xxx at Bescot all looking In poor condition ( broken cab windows) and out of steam and a few weeks later they appeared at Oxley and Machynleth, although some of them only lasted a few months presumably due to poor condition. David

Another book to have is By Great Western to Crewe by Bob Yate ( Oakwood Press) which has lots of details about loco workings between Crewe and Wellington. Regarding the Pines express In May and June 1963 one of Edge Hills re built Scots 46110 Greadier Gurdsman was noted on the Pines once a week. There was also a relief Pines and one of Carlisle’s re built Scots 46166 was seen at Wolverhampton on the northbound service. In October 1963 6847 was seen at Patform 2 at Crewe with a train possibly to Shrewsbuty. 45060 was also seen working into Crewe with a train from Shrewsbury. Unusually on a Crewe to Wellington service was 4943 Marrington Hall in 1963. In September 1963 46345 City of London worked a Birmingham to Crewe works special train. ( I watched the train through Wellington). David

A clarification on the Pines Express through Wellington. Yes it was regularly hauled by Class 40s but Britannia’s were not unknown I remember Earl Haig on the train on one occasion. There are lots of photos of Wellington trains to Crewe in the book The Railways of Telford by Crowood Press.

Regarding some of the Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton and Wellington to Wolverhampton services had some interesting motive power. the Wellington to Wolverhampton were mainly DMU but some services used steam using Wellingtons ex GW 2-6-2s such as 4130, 4154 and 4158 as well as some of Wellingtons pannier tanks, 3605 seen on this service. The Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton services had either Halls and Counties as well as some of Shrewsbury’s Jubilees ( 45660 Rooke, 45572 Eire being observed) but the Halls could be any sheds locos inc 6970 of Oxford. in 1965 with the moving to the LM region Oxley became responsible for the workings so Black 5s such as 44681, 44853 as well as Oxleys Britannia 70053 ( allocated for the summer to work summer holiday trains) The Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton services used a mixture of ex GW and ex LMS corridor coaches. In 1964 there was a Chester to Wolverhampton service and 73097 was observed on the service. David