Norton961

As the author of over 10 books (both Railway and Motorcycle) I have been collecting photographs for many many years and always endeavour to credit the photographer, but I have many prints and slides where no photographer is mentioned and no trail to follow to help identify who might have taken it. In the past I bought a print with nothing on the back and then recognised it as a copy print of a C C Green photo which someone has taken a photo of an original print and then printed it without mentioning the photographer. I I have even found a print of a photo I took (with nothing on the back) and I have no idea who or how it came to be at a postcard fair! The advent of quality digital scanners has further clouded already muddy water of credit to the photographer as postcard prints are then taken from the scans and then appear at eBay/postcard fairs. The same applies to slides. So it is possible to buy lots of photos and slides without any reference to any photographer. So I agree with PGH but it is not always possible to give credit where it is due. David

As the person who posted the photos of various Pecketts, I would add the following comments: The purpose was to show the weathering on various Pecketts, it did not matter which version. I was trying to make the point that most industrials were generally kept quite clean and I agree with Rushton that some of the weathering is overdone. Finding photos of W4 would limit how many photos I could post. The thread is about weathering so I thought that I would add to the debate. I won’t bother again! Referring to PGH commments about photo credits I completely agree about giving credit to the photographer but in all the photos I posted I have no idea who the photographer was or where the locations are. I now understand why people stop posting on RM Web threads. I will now join them. David

I thought it would be usefull to post some photos of the prototype particularly in relation to the weathering. The first photo is of P1704 taken in 1960. Photographer unknown. the second photo is P1897 of 1936 taken at Walsall gas works in 1966. the third photo is of Peckett P1931. lastly an unknown Peckett at an unknown location. This small snapshot shows that generally the locos were kept in reasonable condition although the walsall gas woprks loco is the exception. My view is that a light weathering is more prototypical rather than compltely careworn. David

I use a cotton bud to remove weathering. David

The tender is neither a welded or riveted one, but a part welded one, rivets at the bottom half and welded the top half (with the exception of a couple of rows of vertical rivets near the top). These tenders could be fitted with either roller bearing or plain bearing axle boxes. David

Mick, if you go to the thread on The Lilleshall Company in the Industrial Railways section of RM Web there are plenty of photos of Lilleshall No 19 (Works no 883). David

Had a chat to John Redrup at Scaleforum yesterday ( as well as buying some stuff) and he looked fit and well which was good. Progress on the LNWR 0-4-0 tank is delayed waiting for a quality printing of the boiler to make a master for resin casting. David

My wagons have now arrived and the lettering is excellent. The base wagons are from Dapol and 2 of them have steel under frames making them post 1923, but not sure about the timber framed one. The photos seem to have turned through 90 degrees and I don’t know how to solve that! David

Pictures of the 3 wagon set from the Class 15 preservation society. The colour is very red but that will match with the Bachmann Limestone wagon. I think the livery with all the additional info on may be post 1923 but I dont have any definative info. .

The Class 15 preservation society has produced a 3 wagon set of Lilleshall wagons with 2 different versions of the wagon livery and there are only a limited number of sets left(17 I think). They are currently putting them on eBay. Search for the seller 60080.di_7. They are not cheap at £48.00 for 3 but they are designed to provide funds for the restoration of the loco. Needless to say I have bought a set. David

Thanks for the heads up on the Lilleshall wagons as I have just bought them! As the person who started the thread on the Lilleshall Co in the section on Industrial Railways and having worked for the Lilleshall Company for one summer as a student I have more than an effection for the company and it’s Railways. I have 2 of the Lilleshall Pecketts and at least one of them I will convert to P4. David

Interesting comments about colourful liveries. I have on my PC hundreds of colour photos of industrials and at a rough guess 60% are green, about 30% black and red/maroon and blue sharing the last 10%. I am just about to start painting a RSH 0-4-0 tank ( High Level) for my friend Martin Neild and he said he wanted it painted Maroon, so I thought I would have a look at some prototype colour photos and found it hard to find any painted that colour! In the folder for the Peckett, the majority were painted green. What did vary was the frame and valance colour, a number being painted red. A fair number were plain green with no lining. I know my sample of prototype liveries is relatively small but it does suggest Pecketts were either Green or Black, the Blue ones being an exception. Me, I shall be repainting a Black one into unlined green, red frames, red footplate valance and red coupling rods. David

The specialised nature of rotary valve gear, the fitters at Burton travelled all over the LM region attending to problems with the Reidinger Crab 2-6-0s. If they failed at some remote depot, the local fitters took one look and were then on the phone to the Burton shedmaster requesting help and it usually meant waiting for a Burton fitter to turn up. David

Dave, the pre group wagons are for a separate pre group period for the layout. I am building a couple of LNWR locos to go with the wagons, a coal tank and a 17” goods. David

. These are the last 2 of a batch of pre grouping wagons built in the last few weeks. I posted a request elsewhere on RMWeb about loads for single plank wagons and got some interesting replies. The BR wagons have been hanging around for months in the nearly finished state so I have had a finishing purge and these are the result. Mostly Parkside (what would do without this range!) David

Chaps, thanks for the reply’s. The suggestion of using “sheets” to cover some indistinguishable load is an excellent one. I have the first 2 volumes of LNWR wagons and photos of single plankers with loads are almost non existent. As an aside looking forward to Vol 3 of LNWR wagons which has now been published. I still need to decide what load to put on the Morris and Griffin wagon though. David

I have a number of LNWR single plank wagons and a single plank P.O. wagon for which I would like to incorporate some loads, but can’t find any photos showing any loads. I presume the P.O. wagon would have had products relating to its business but I don’t know what that was. I would presume that the LNWR single plankers would have had a variety of loads, but I don’t have any photos. David

Interesting comment Mike Parkin but I think a lot of people were waiting for the Black Peckett as they could paint it any colour they liked, as the previous liveried examples were too nice to strip and repaint. I think you are correct though that releasing items in the Summer holidays when there are other pressures on people’s budgets would lead to slower initial sales. It is going to be interesting to see what happens with the next release. David

Dave, looking really good. We need to meet up soon. David

The first history of the Lilleshall Co was published in 1979 and has long been out of print. However copies still appear on eBay, the last one I saw last week was £10.00 inc postage! David

There are 2 possibles, PenBits definitely do one, I think Rhymny models may also do one. David

I have been progressing some more pre group wagons, with these 3 just completed and weathered. I have also repainted and re numbered a Brassmaster G2 that I bought in a few months ago, bringing my fleet of these up to 2. This was the first kit that I and Jim Barnes developed to start the Brassmasters range. I have a prtially built one to complete as well. I was going to number it as one of Staffords locos but this has been built with the sand fillers on the cabsides and none of the Stafford allocation had these and a tender cab. I have therefore numbered it as one of Crewe Souths locos and can if I wish also give it a Yellow stripe wich it received in August 1964 and was withdrawn in December 1964. I have also been painting and linning a Brassmasters Black 5, this loco (allocated to Crewe North) was seen working between Shrewsbury and Stafford on the stopping services. It is a long way from being finished needing some satin varnish, light weathering, couplings and a coal load. I like to photograph locos and rolling stock when part built as it shows up any remedial work required, the eye sometimes misses things but the camera does not. David

Captain, yes you have to remove the body. The coupling is from Kean Maygib ( the 3 link wagon ones) which you have to make up, but it is more to scale than the Smiths ones. As the coupling splits behind the buffer beam I had to file a slot on the chassis to clear the back of the coupling. David

Firstly a photo of Lilleshall No 10 when working, it lasted untill 1958 and was one of the last Lilleshall Co locos to work (along with the 2 Barclays). The lilleshall Co certainly had its monies worth with this loco giving 57 years service. The loco was loaned to the nearby works of Joseph Sankey during World War 2 but returned to Lileshall in 1943. I have now received my loco and the first thing was to remove the tension lock couplings and replace with 3 links. I am now waiting for a replacement shassis to be made in P4. Hornby have done a fabulous job and with some subtle weathering it will look really good. David

For those interested In Lilleshall No 10 in its natural environment there are lots of photos on the thread The Lilleshall Co on the UK industrial section on RM Web.