adb968008

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

But if the primary selling point is a ride through some pretty countryside then whether something is famous (or infectious) is irrelevant to most people. 
 

if that were true, then this whole thread wouldnt exist, neither would wcrc as a tourist business, as they are providing a product any normal train can already provide…

The public want a product that isnt normal, as normal they can do anytime… being different is the USP.

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

The LSL Pacers are very much a case of Hoskins wanting to play trains rather than them being ideal as the way forward while those which have entered Preservation on heritage lines is largely due to the owners selling them dirt cheap / donating them as a way of avoiding to have to pay to scrap them rather than them being ideal units for use on such lines*

 

Pacers are also banned from some of the most scenic lines in the country - most 15X based units are not!

 

 

* Restored loco hauled four wheeled coaching stock also tends to ride badly - the difference between that and a Pacer is that its (1) usually fitted with very comfortable and deeply sprung seating plus (2) its usually of the compartment format so there is no need to be stood up as it runs along.

all stock is sold cheap, scrap is the very nature of cheap.

if there was perceived value, it wouldn't be scrapped.

its what the owner makes of the scrap object that defines its future value.

Top Gear single handedly made the Morris Marina valuable by destroying them… i’d argue thats the car equivalent of a 142.

Germans use 4 wheeled heritage stock on the mainline, indeed a lot of Europe does….

whats worse is some have wooden bench seats too, verandahs and no doors !… thats actually the selling point.

creature comforts is a British thing, on those they will sell you schnapps to numb the pain, here a 142 tour would be with fish and chips, served with a glass of champagne, with a challenge not to get any of it on the floor as you crossover Crewe… in 20 years it will be a novelty that people pay for… I remember arguments in the 1980’s saying no one would ever ride a preserved mk2… and here we are, dead without them.

its a funny old hobby, but its a generational thing…. Tbh I suspect more than a few here would secretly ride a Pacer over Glenfinnan, just once, if it was offered… Even Sheffield Park caved in to diesels, eventually… a Pacer someday ?.. a Sprinter.. thats just Accrington Stanley… ask the public to name two diesel trains, it will be the HST and a Pacer.

its about the USP, and a Pacer is distinctive… a 150 vs a 197 isnt very different.

when it comes to EMUs how the Arterio has been kept from the public gaze is anyones guess… its a mess as big as the Prasa Afro4000’s and the NS Fyra.

26 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Yes but ride quality cannot be ignored. From that point of view the Sprinter fleet are a far more sensible proposition than a Pacer when it comes to 2nd gen unit.

Weve already established the UK populace has no sense, thats why they need regulating to save them from themselves.

A pacer will be “that train my parent complained about as a kid”… a Sprinter.. no ones heard of it..

So a Pacer is the 2040’s legendary flying scotsman… sadly… passengers will await the squeal, bounce and then cheer… that may last a decade or so before the ORR clamps down on road vehicles being used on the railway… then a whole new thread will appear here.

Weve already seen what an 87 can do to a 142, but a mk1 is less safe apparently… and 2x 142s are in mainline use, more may follow.

41 minutes ago, Claude_Dreyfus said:

You jest, but that sort of thing happens a lot in Japan. A large percentage of tourist trains are rebuilt examples of JNR DMUs and EMUs (KiHa40/48 being probably the most common), which are known by the fantastic term 'Joyful Trains'.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyful_Train

 

Many are adapted for specific routes (big windows in scenic areas, local craftsmanship in the interiors), and prove popular. Rebuilding a couple of 156s when the time comes to run specific WHL tourist services may not he such a mad idea.

Multiple units are popular worldwide for heritage and tourist use on the mainline.

Eastern Europe has oodles of them, as found in South America etc also.

The UK is lagging behind in unit preservation, but things like the wcrc episode bring the day nearer that units become the sensible answer as alternatives like steam, vb, mk1’s become less viable.

Thats why big window, high space, polarising units like 142s will be attractive in the future.

When it comes to making mk2’s safer, maybe look to New Zealand, and what they did to our older stock..

mk2 FO 3394…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_British_Rail_Mark_2_carriage#/media/File:Metlink_SW_3394_at_Masterton_Station.JPG
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_British_Rail_Mark_2_carriage#/media/File:SD_masterton.jpg
 

When other countries can do this with our cast offs, you have to wonder why we are unwilling to try… I guess we have too much money and can afford this kind of waste, where as others havent as much, and so cannot afford to waste, hence come up with innovative solutions… but I guess whos money is being wasted, and is the person wasting it the owner of that money… its easy to blow someone elses credit card… and when you dont have a credit card, you need an eye for a bargain and a keen mind.

9 hours ago, StuAllen said:

TBH I don’t think most passengers on the Jacobite travel on the line because it’s the West Highland Line and the spectacular views - they aren’t enthusiasts, they travel on it because of the Harry Potter connection, they want steam and coaches that look similar to those in the film (don’t forget in some of the scenes they were on open carriages it wasn’t all corridor stock.

 

I was booked on the Jacobite a couple of years ago but the journey was cancelled due to a strike, and didn’t we have time during the few days we stayed at Fort William to do the journey using Scotrail instead due to other planned activities.

 

A few pictures from our trip to Glenfinnan Viaduct the day after the strike day shows that people only care about steam.

 

The Jacobite has 7 full coaches, there were 100s of people on the hillside to take photos, but none waited around for the pair of 156’s the arrived not long after - barely half full.  There were 4 Jacobites services cancelled that week so if people wanted to travel the line then I would have expected to see the Scotrail service to have been full.

someday, people will appreciate the class 156.

They will be preserved.

They will run railtours.

They are the future of Heritage on the mainline

someday.

😀

20 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Yet most railway companies, the LNWR being an excellent example, liked to number locos, wagons etc, with the lowest number they had sitting on the shelf from retired vehicles. That way they could tell how many locos they had in the fleet, by looking at the highest number and subtracting any lower number plates, sitting on the shelf.

 

Did most companies with cast plates, use this method?

is this how football clubs developed player numbers for shirts ?

8 hours ago, Matt37268 said:

That is incredibly strong and emotive. 

20+ years then quitting, I wouldn't expect less.

What do volunteers get for 20 years work.. nothing, this isn't redundancy or retirement, you will be forgotten in a week.

you are not paid, you have no value.

its hard to learn you are worthless and opinion counts for nothing.

That is how it is unfortunately.

It does worry me, where preservation is heading and is Charity models right for heritage railways ?

The roots of heritage lines are groups of volunteers, rallying a cause. So decisions are by like minded individuals towards a common cause.

You cant ignore in the years theres been loads of passionate discussions about competing ideals but it produced the industry that exists.

The problem with charities I see is it divorces those volunteers from the cause. Charities are basically businesses who can make their own decisions without accountability to the volunteers, indeed they can even get rid of the very volunteers who created the charity, or marginalise them to supporters groups.

Theres a lot of kudos to be had by being a charity director, so you can often see career builders taking such roles, who often lack the passion, history, dedication of the volunteer cause, but place the badge along side their external professional role to elevate themselves, and often are appointed by peers in such roles at the charity and are hard to remove and dont answer to the volunteers.  where as volunteer groups election to higher position requires group consensus of the membership, as does their easy removal.

how about this scenario…

1. Group of lads found a football club,

2. Rattle a tin for years, buy a pitch

3. Elect the players, captain, club admins, pay annual subs, does well, builds a stand, bar, other buildings

4. joins league, starts earning real money

5. Decided to protect the club from the risks of the league, so make an ltd for the business side of the games revenue using clubs directors.

6. Decide turning the business to a charity for tax and fundraising, turn over club assets to the charity, directors are self elected to charity rules and self governing. Club members become the supporters club.

7. Directors change strategy, appoint new board members, from ex Professional clubs, local authority, sports bodies, arts foundations and a property investor. Decide you dont need to join the supporters club to be a volunteer member of the football club.
8. The supporters Club members dont like it but cannot change it. Stress occurs, supporters club is asked to leave, and supporters club ultimately folds.

9. Charity decides to spin off a new CIO, with own directors in place. Reports trading is hard, costs high with paid staff, cannot get volunteers. CIO Agrees to sell the ltd business to those directors for £1 who form a for profit ltd. Charity closes, ltd sells the land for property development, directors cash out.

I’m seeing various patterns like this at preserved lines around the country, many around the 6,7,8 mark.

Its usually step 7 when you see the explosions of time served volunteers on the internet, who realise their life passion is for nothing and theres no influence on management for their efforts.. often resulting in major fights between the charity and the supporters club who founded it. At this point its too late.. the child is an adult and its left home for good.

I do think in the future we will see selected lines become owned by companies like Merlin Entertainment, others maybe become charities controlling multiple lines. For some closure, part closure, redevelopment is a possibility, and others maybe reintegrated to the network as a rail, guided bus, tramway or cycle path.

i’m not convinced railways, hospitals and aid agencies all fit well in the same corporate framework.

My all time favourite though is this one (none railway related)…

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7702913.stm
 

Quote

When officials asked for the Welsh translation of a road sign, they thought the reply was what they needed.

Unfortunately, the e-mail response to Swansea council said in Welsh: "I am not in the office at the moment. Send any work to be translated".

surely this sign would be fun to be replicated on a model railway layout scene somewhere and see if anyone notices

Spell checking even in the modern world still has gaps…

cant afford vapes in Blackpool so theyve invented something new…

worst part was these were on every lamp post of every platform !!

Surely someone in the chain from design, manufacturing to fitting can spell cigarette… there must be over 100 of those signs.

Ive not done ftw -Mallaig for years.

First time was 673 Maude in 1984, then with 2005 in c1985-6

My final time was 44871 in 1989.

I’ll have done it with class 26/7 and 37 at some point.

shamelessly breaking all the rules…

i’d end up in a Scottish jail doing porridge if doing this today.

cant recall the date, sixbellsdoesnt list it, but this is how we got up there…

miserable weather, wasnt yet a teenager, cheap 110 camera.

4 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

Am I missing something?

I've just had something pop up from Rails in my Faceache feed about pre-orders being open for the KR Models Class 40, which is claiming "We have been working closely with the Class 40 Preservation Society to bring you the most up-to-date and accurate model of the Whistler that is possible." (other opinions may or may not be available) but when I decided to have a curious look all there were to pre order were a load of fictional liveries and preserved examples.  Nothing from their days in normal service.

I'll leave the discussion of the model accuracy and fidelity to those who have got their electron microscopes and photo editing software on standby but I must admit to being genuinely baffled as to the choice of launch liveries including no "normal service" offers and three comedy liveries.

If you keep scrolling down the page you’ll the normal service ones under Bachmann, they are also cheaper, instock now and you know what your getting.

On 01/09/2023 at 10:27, zr2498 said:

Are the speakers going to fighting each other?

 

Many many years ago, I saw the early Lima EPs for their 40…

They had two different new mechanisms proposed…

one was a twin pan cake on each bogie, the other was like the 20, with a centre motor, with shaft and gear tower on the bogie.

The twin pancake, when placed on the track immediately wanted to go opposite directions because of how they initially wired them, so the 40 just jumped up and down on the spot.

😀

The other with the 20 motor didnt really set the world on fire either as it was too light and only drove one bogie, unlike the 20 which had a solid metal block it was a standard plastic chassis.

They later went the default cheap route, a single pancake like all the others, but if you look at the dummy bogie it still has the planned gear tower, just empty.

Lima also made D200, 40106, 40145, D335 and 40126 as early releases, with 40066 (Scottish headcode conversion) which no one repeated since until Bachmann last year, and 40001… £27.95 in those days.

I recall a cold start of 40145 at Bury once, on a winter mist morning, took 30 minutes, filled not just the museum yard but most of the town centre in white diesel fumes which made their own inversion layer in the air, the fire service even arrived.

😀

Heres an idea…

1 hour ago, ruggedpeak said:

There are things to do on the West Coast of Scotland other than the Harry Potter train? Who knew...

 

The likely result of not lining the pockets of WCRC and Smith by their extraction a £1 million profit back to England is that the money will most likely be spent and retained by local businesses. So not running the Jacobite may well be beneficial to local businesses overall. Yes, the stewards and others may have to find alternative seasonal work but tourists won't be saying "I will save that money I was going to spend on the Jacobite and take it back home". So unlikely to be any net loss to the area and quite likely to be a net gain.

Or maybe this years holidays are booked so too late to cancel.

For me, a return visit to Knysna, South Africa has been postponed a decade now, i thought one day steam may return there, but alas it hasn’t returned and neither have I.

The last train has gone..

i’m sure its business as usual, but the cherry on top of the cake is not.

but just like Scotland, South Africa has much else to offer, just less in Knysna, a fishing harbour much like Mallaig.

(spot the elephant).

someday…

https://www.outeniquachootjoe.com

The sleeping beast will reawaken.

Until then Tourism changed, Knysna initially lost to a diesel operation to Mossel Bay… that in turn failed because of falling demand… the tourists slowly evaporated away from the train… simply because it was the focal point in the vicinity, as part of a wider trip across the garden route for tourists… Knysna lost 115k rail tourists.. pretty much same as claimed by the Jacobite.

As best as I can see, Knysna is still one of SAs top tourist spots but 2007 stats suggest people stayed longer than a few days, than 2017 which suggest 1-2 days. its not all down to the train but clearly tourism trends changed., most likely in favour of safari park accommodation, which might explain why the train hasn't returned.

Coming back here

Will Scotland benefit ? Perhaps one of the foreign owned Scotch whisky distilleries might ?

https://whisky1.wordpress.com/distillery-owners-guide-who-belongs-to-whom/

I think if this was prepaid the argument is valid.

But they are only taking payment when shipped.

So consider the call like a lottery win and be patient.
 

Shipping is very quick, and it is wrapped so neatly my wife thought it was a box of chocolates.. and thats the brown paper wrapping. she still wasnt convinced it wasn't a gift when seeing the tissue wrapped container inside the metal tin.

The most parcels ive ever sent in a “normal” after hours working day was about 30, it was tiring and none of them were wrapped like that… so 000’s is going to take a while.

Each of these locos is sent with love for sure, and it feels like each one is being quality checked.

Without doubt this is gold standard attention to detail, thats going to take a while… scaling that and keeping the standard won’t be easy.

ive not got around to removing the loco from its plastic display case/ cradle yet, but it looks fantastic.

7 hours ago, Gilbert said:

 Seen today:

A preserved one, 25278. Albeit I dont think its been blue in preservation.

it looks like Blue has beaten Green by a long way in terms of demand…. Shifting demographics perhaps ?

6 hours ago, dj_crisp said:

 

Thanks again for the info.

 

I've very crudely added some detail to the BSO guards interior that could be viewed from the exterior.

 

 

Opening the windows out meant I needed to remove Bachmanns attempt at a brake wheel and as its visible Ive addedd a stenson wheel instead.  The base maybe improved if i can see it when illuminated but for the time being is a quick and simple approach. There's another window added to side.

looks good, each time I went into a guards vestibule, the wheel was in the way.

oddly the omission I see is the pie warmer… did mk2 D/e/F have this ?

The PA system too isnt in the tooling.

indeed the back head could be a nice 3D project with piewarmer, pa system box, fire extinguisher and a spare red painted shackle too.

going further add the desk against the body wall, with an A4 black and red timing register.

some memories there, but I doubt you can see much in the model.

Thanks for all your efforts. I will

enjoy your work for years to come

12 minutes ago, david.hill64 said:

I agree: my point was that the ORR will have door issues and their management on heritage lines under review because of incidents like that at the GCR.

The GCR incident was unfortunate, but also at a “mainline” station.

Any number of lines have any number of “halts” that arent even close to train length, some maybe 1 coach platforms with a 6 coach train.. and thats even if the platform reaches door height.

Ive always found these dangerous myself, even as a seasoned traveller, as quite often unless your a regular to the line youve no idea the stopping point.

I certainly have seen occasion where a 6 coach stopped at a 1 coach platform, followed by a door opening 2-3 coaches off the platform, matched by frenzied shouting by the guard running up the track to prevent it.

I dont think its unreasonable to, to insist a calling train match the length of the platform.

27 minutes ago, Neil said:

 

Now you're just being stupid.

 

Of course all statistics are out of date, but a six year period leading up to Covid (which would cause all sorts of anomalies) seems pretty good at giving a guide to the comparative safety levels of European railways. If you want to find more up to date statistics which demonstrate that UK railways are less safe than their European counterparts then please feel free to enlighten us.

 

I dont need to, i’m already convinced, without needing a 5 year old report, covering a period 5-9 years old using 11 year old single year snapshot, from arguably a biased source, with broken links that acknowledges its data collection is flawed to convince me.

if thats stupid to question it,  whats considered intelligent .. fake news ?

its a good read, but I think the science should be better.

Its an example of why some webpages should expire and self delete.

for actual data, try this and make your own stats.. you can bend them anyway you like, and the EU certainly does like to make itself look better than anyone else, at any oppourtunity.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/transport/data/database

read, but be inquisitive, theres always more detail under the headline. You can always find multiple points of view, before making your own opinion… indeed looking at this history of this thread my opinion of wcrc, the orr and the legislation has shifted considerably in my opinion of where it started, based on sensible posters here who have shared their own thoughts and facts as its moved along, and i’m very appreciative to those with greater industry insight for doing so, I recognise I maybe asking stupid questions, but then i’m on the outside of the industry with a very different initial exposure… you can guarentee in the normal world the questions would be even less informed, its just that normal people really dont seem to care… Ask me about regulations for safety on canal boats…yep i become just another ignorant normal who doesnt care.

31 minutes ago, johnofwessex said:

 

Fascinating figures.

 

Interesting to see how much safer the UK is compared with Western Europe never mind anywhere else.

Indeed when you read the text….

Quote

Comparison of Passenger and Workforce Fatality Rates Across Europe (Source ORR, 2013)

Its 11 year old snapshot, being used in a survey that covers 2015-2019 window. The URL itself is a broken link.

All stats can mask a story, how about picking 2004 to brag about instead.
 

so its not even relevent to the time period it covers, which itself is 5 years old.

i’m sure railways in 1666 were quite safe too, anyone can pick an arbitrary year, from a single rail administration and report it at a European level…

the article itself acknowledges it is flawed..

Quote

The methods used to collect safety data can vary widely between railway administrations as can its quality, making comparisons on a global basis difficult.

So its a feel good report rather than an accurate standardised scientific study.

Greenlands railways are pretty safe too I hear ?

i dont need to be convinced our railways are safe, but this article doesnt do it.

1 hour ago, Neil said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Neil said:

 

Bizarre logic here; exposing people to the risk of death makes them safer?

 

really ?

You never learned the green cross code then ?

Have you never crossed the road ?

Ever boiled a pan, made a fire, checked sell by dates, food temperatures, learned to swim ?

Learn to drive a car, operate a lift…

life is a risk, you face hundreds of risks every day, from falling out of bed in a morning to slipping in the shower at night.

No one is saving you from almost all of them, you have to learn by exposure in order to survive…

opening a door is but one of them, for some reason a train door seems a much great risk than a car door, yet cyclists are swiped by them daily..and they learn the hard way too… ive walked into a front door before now but ive not fitted cdl to my house.

sometimes over protection results in forgetting why the protection was put in place resulting in new risks being created… speed bumps are a state sponsored cyclist killer too.

Try reading your travel insurance, its a phd thesis in exempting themselves for insuring your risk...

page 99 (yes it is that big and I am the sad one that reads these docs)…

https://www.postoffice.co.uk/dam6/jcr:f0ccc9a3-ee0e-4aed-aece-99fc04ac6a7f/travel-insurance-terms-and-conditions-ERV.pdf
Do not drink too much alcohol overseas, as your not insured… conveniently too much isnt quantified.. so 1 beer a day at the Euros it is then… you can guarentee in a big payout situation they will be studying your bmi, history, social media anything to justify that you cant handle 2 beers…

whats more the state has even advised you of the risk, thus supporting the insurance industry even further..

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-68687789

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/germany/euro-2024

be careful on a German train.. some heritage stock doesnt even have doors…

12 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

 

 

However extending all ORR regulations to Heritage Railways would be just like banning the sales of ladders and DIY tools to the general public - the fall out would be widespread and voters would not tolerate it. Heritage railways carry many more passengers, employ many more people and generate far more economic benefits (not to mention tax revenues) across the UK as a whole than charter operations do in each calendar year.

 

But the ORR isnt supposed to care about commercials.

tbh i’m not sure the public would kick up a stink about CDL on carriages on preserved railways, because they dont understand it, as we see with the public response to wcrc the media simply says “its safety related”.

There isnt significant backlash about the Jacobite emerging.. so they wont care about some 1mile back yard operation run by an industrial.

Sure the enthusiast segment would kick up a fuss, but they are just as relevant to discussion on heritage railways as they are to the wcrc (ie irrelevant ).

At the end of the day, even if the lines got 130 coaches, they rarely run more than 4 sets a day on any one preserved line (and less than 6 in a rake), so the c£150k cost falls safely with the VPF… to rework the wording of a recent judgement.

imo the argument is clear, and should an incident occur there would have to be questions to answer as to why there is a blind eye or a blindspot in regulation.

16 minutes ago, Legend said:

Aye . I have to say I’ve changed my position on this . I was originally of the view that people should know how to open and lock doors . I remember in the seventies as we ran onto the platform into Paisley Gilmour St if on the Ayr dmu, that I had the window down and hand on the lock opening it before the train stopped - mainly because my main concern was not getting the door open and the train departing taking me to next station .  I had never swung the door open before we stopped though .  But times have changed . People are used to sliding doors and just don’t know how to deal with these doors . And I do remember sitting in a restaurant watching a couples kid as he ran and bounced off glass Doors . They thought it very funny while my heart was in my mouth . So always remember there really are stupid people out there that need to be catered for in rules and procedures .  It may well be that we need to do something on heritage railways too 

European visitors arent used to the side of the road we drive on, should we change sides ?

in my mispent youth ive entered a carriage via an open window, and it wasnt a door droplight (admittedly today i’d probably get stuck like a fat cork in a bottle if I tried now), people are stupid…. But I can still climb the inter connecting cables of a class 800 to the roof if I wanted, nothing stops me getting a free ride on a container flat should it stop in a station, and Ive seen kids standing on the back drivers cab exterior on sprinters before now… you’ll never stop a determined idiot.

Sensible people will generally comply with instructions, but to me the issue is no one is giving the instructions… thats my point about control and influence… you can come up with a hundred ways to save them from themselves, but often the easiest way is to educate them…

Although ive done hundreds of thousands of miles by rail, it came as a surprise to me to find 313’s have exit ladders in the cab… it never crossed my mind… yet if a crash happened and its every man for themselves.. it would be the sliding doors and a jump out i’d be heading for.

11 minutes ago, david.hill64 said:

There are indications that the ORR is concerned about the exemptions that apply to Heritage Railways, so we may well find further tightening of many issues.

There was an incident recently on the Great Central Railway where a passenger fell from a door in a situation where on a modern railway Selective Door Opening would have prevented the occurrence. It is likely that door issues will be exercising the minds of ORR staff.

 

If the solution was door bolts and stewards, then wcrc has cornered the market in compliant rolling stock supply to heritage railways, should their mainline career be over…

but i’m sure wcrcs management may find that solution puzzling.

it seems like a new design electrically locking Mk1 door, with interior handles and none opening windows could become a good business venture… theres a lot of mk1’s in preservation, way more than WCRCs fleet, and Heritage railway mk1 doors can often be rotten anyway, even before any mods…

many years ago I remember a heritage railway mk1 opening hinge side, before falling off… back in the day. preserved railway standards on some lines can be way way below wcrc mk1s… so replacing the door might be a requirement just from rust alone.

1 hour ago, Northmoor said:

Take a good read back through this thread to learn why what is happening, is happening.  No, the ORR has no concept of a business needing to make a profit, that isn't it's job. 
 

…

 

Again, you are assuming that the odd accident "trains" us.  With parenting, this might work ("Don't touch that it's hot!") but being hit on the head by an opening train door at 20mph, you may not get the chance to learn from.

…

 

I will ask the same two questions of all resistant to HSE legislation:

1. How many deaths on the railways would you think an acceptable number?

2. How many would be acceptable if they are relatives or friends of yours?

I dont disagree, but why then are preserved railways not being asked to implement cdl… as they go at 25mph ?

(dont want a load of paperwork exemptions thrown at me in reply… if the risk at 20 is the same at 100, then the whl should not be exempt, but neither should any preserved railway… I would argue the risk is much higher on a voluntary operated railway by amateurs working at a weekend than 30 year career professionals running every day… indeed the totality of heritage railway incidents completely out numbers wcrcs digressions,

This is one of the aspects of the ORR I feel is turning a blind eye too, because of the commercial implications it has to heritage railways, whilst the argument suggested they should bot be considering the commercial implications on the mainline.

whilst I am sure that sits uneasy, falling off victoria bridge (10mph), hitting castlecroft tunnel (c5mph) , or falling out of Damens loop (0mph) are all life changing possibilities, without a cdl, a door lock or a steward.