adb968008

69011 outside today, GBRF 69 house colours, Orange/blue.

Havent yet spotted any differences between 8 and 11, so we may actually have a matching pair.

59102 alongside it, in Frightliner Halloween blood Orange.

released from Eastleigh tomorrow.

35 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

The larger airports have more staff and much stronger financial resources and if they can't plan the installation of a few machines and organise their buildings to accommodate them when all the tin-pot airfields can, I wouldn't rate their chances of organising a p*ss-up in a brewery.

As someone of experience in handling raised floor loads… putting a heavy weight machine on the ground floor or a tinpot airfield is much more straight forwards than putting it on the 2nd or 3rd floor of a 1970’s concrete building used 24/7… it’s not as straight forwards as wheeling it in, and watching it fall through the floor because the distributed load was used instead of the  point load. I know that puts me back in the minority camp… again… 

Interesting comparison to the ORR and WCRC here

Heathrow airport is asking regulators for an extension to time limits to roll out new security measures

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68723697

the approach is different though, rather than shutting down Heathrow for non compliance, they intend to use fines…

different carrot, different stick.

42 minutes ago, dj_crisp said:

I think there's space for celebrity locos but only ones that don't need a heavily revised tooling. Me I just like some nice 47/7s in NSE :)

We just got a class 48.

Whilst there maybe more than 1, (5)

how many people would really buy more than 1 ?

Unless your at Tinsley on a sunday in the early 1960’s you probably never saw more than 1 together. Chances are most wouldnt have recognised it even if they saw it, as theyd be looking for chimneys.

And you'd need to be in your 60’s to remember a 48, as a 48 (and most likely a steam fan).

47901 is an openday queen of the 1980’s/90’s, and whilst admittedly it mostly slept at Westbury.. its one people regularly looked for.. and in living memory of diesel fans. My personal feeling has always been 47901 would be more popular than a 48.

14 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

More info on the LSL trains here:

 

https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2024/04/west-highlander-day-trips-to-run-on-scotlands-jacobite-line-next-week.html

 

Tickets will be available as a ‘pay on the day' basis priced at £40 per adult and £20 for those under 16s.

at this short notice I suspect this will be a bit of a stretch to be successful.

if they remained a couple of weeks it may have more chance.

(I do wish LSL would buy a 26 or a 27).

In 2016 I bought a 50 from Kernow to replicate 50032 Courageous.

For whatever reason its still sitting part renumbered on my shelf.

The blue nameplates really stood out on this 50, I have vivid memories of seeing it fly through Clapham.

There, now Ive admitted it… it has to be in Batch 2…, just to guarentee it, this weekend i’ll get the box out and see if I can move it along a little…

20 hours ago, rob D2 said:

No manufacturer have ever done that …limited number, colours and geographical area may scupper the idea

So was the class 80 / 18100, its still been done.

 
47901 is an enigma to many.

People like enigmas.

13 hours ago, Morello Cherry said:

 

 

 

Managers need to put themselves in the shoes of those at the bottom

This 100%.

You cant understand the problem, if you've never seen it, understood it or done it in some form or other.

I once saved a £15mn software project, with a top 10 US Financial institution, by flying from Sydney, where everything was going smoothly, to New York, at 24 hours notice, and on a very long flight, where they said it was falling apart and were threatening to quit the project.. solely to go in on a saturday morning, as soon as I landed at EWR, to sit next to the actual guy doing overtime inputting data into our software and see exactly what his problem was…

There was no way It would have ever been detected using a conference tool. Indeed the way it was going was a tit for tat blame game about user skillset vs support. We were days from being thrown out. 

I didnt do much, I watched, listened, learned and asked a few questions, and about his having to miss his kids soccer game in order to use our software on a saturday, then viewed our solution in context to his process.

It was hidden in minuta and the type of work & work process the employee was inputting wasnt in a way the tool anticipated it, forcing him to do it manually and work arounds… but you had to see his actual work process to understand why.

Once understood, documented and explained to the techies, the fix took a week, problem solved… overtime over, Saturday's off and his teams productivity flew away

I took 48 hours off, went back to Sydney and continued overseeing the deployment there.. truly wiped out knackered, but with my gold card secured with the airline for one more year… but that financial was my account for years after, with a constant set of orders. ultimately our software saved the customer of needing a $300mn IT investment…

But there was still higher management who just didn't understand it and questioned the expenses for what looked like a weekend in new york and could not correlate it to the sales forecast… they just cant see beyond the numbers… Has we been thrown out it would have been recorded as technical issues, we would lose, our customer would lose.

The customer director, and my boss at that time have been my best advocate for job references ever since.
 

It remains a story I retell to graduates, new hires ever since, the importance of understanding your customer, the person doing the task, and who his personal customer is (the one he hands off to). The more people understand each persons role, the better they can help each other. Even small changes can have huge impacts and determine success or failure.

I smelled the EP for that at Warley last year… it seems everyone was wearing it, or an older version of it.

On 02/04/2024 at 16:32, E100 said:

 

Oh yeah, the spares website is superb, just hadn't appreciated a retailer their own exclusives direct as well.

I wish they would update the spares site, I dont think theyve added anything new in quite some time.

i know i Can phone and ask but sometimes I just like to noodle around.

22 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Top & Tail - it's got a DBSO so it's just the solitary class 37 required - it's as if the Mk3 Push Pulls of 1980 and the post privatisation DRS Mk2 Cumbrian services got melded together with a 37 at the helm.

 

I reckon if the main users of the service are American tourists they will appreciate the ambience of a Mk3 FO over an older Mk1.  The engine at the head might not matter so much to them.

Only if you take all the windows out…. 

its not called land of the free for nothing.

Seeing the 37 and the 156 they may be confused between which is older, they might think the 156 is a British budd railcar.

it needs a chimney to be obvious,there is space for it on a 37 bonnet !

I’ll probably be in a very small minority in this one but…

50033 as it was at the end of the SVR 50’s at 60 gala in 2018… with all the marker pen comments as donated by passengers on it.

sorry @bucoops i saw you posted it.

4 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Or obsessed with short term returns...

 

Never underestimate the influence of the money men and share traders....

 

Just look at the various privatisations - most of which have been judged as offering poor value for money over the longer term but at time of sale generated a nice tidy sum for the Government at time of sale.

 

Porterbrook, like all private business, has to be sensitive to shareholder demands and if dividends are not felt to be high enough then long term thinking tends to go out the Window.

 

In recent months there has been significant shareholder pressure on Unilever to dump what shareholders perceive as 'poorly performing' brands they own.

 

(hint they are not that poorly performing, they just don't make as much profit as the other bits)

Now I see why Ashley bought Hornby shares, he must have heard how many HSTs they have, and went looking for a slice of the action.

😀

oh lord, even Nigerian Princes might pay up their promises on that deal.

24 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

You miss the point - thanks to increased environmental awareness scrapping things is actually pretty expensive these days as potential contaminants have to be contained and anything which cannot easily be recycled ends up being subjected to the landfill tax.

 

Thus if you are a leasing company wanting to get rid of rolling stock then selling it on for a token amount or donating it will make the company accountants very happy.

 

Selling it overseas (and leaving someone else to deal with disposal) is another tactic that accountants like and will have plyed a part in sending HSTs to South America.

 

 

Second hand American stock is certainly not cheap.

Reusable value is very high in the US.

Try looking at a s/h 15 year old car with 200k miles on it, and understand why its worth $5k (been there seen that).

Heres an SW1500 switcher (an 08), not made since 1974

$325k…

http://www.sterlingrail.com/classifieds/classified.php?id=28023

FP40.. $500k 100mph passenger loco from the 1970’s.

http://www.sterlingrail.com/classifieds/classified.php?id=27629

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F40PH

If getting rid of the HSTs for a song was a good deal for our accountants then I guess the Mexicans must have seen us coming, and saved a packet instead of used US stock… (I did read somewhere the same line for the HSTs actually  canceled some locos and rolling stock from the US)… 2x s/h AC4400’s and 12 well aged Coaches from Kansas was it ?

Scrap value of a HST power car what like £30k ?

I really hope that wasn't the case as if it was it shows how naive we are as a country when it comes to doing international business. .. if thats the case then no wonder they bought it all, came back for more and emptied the trash on their way out too.
Try spinning that to Cornwalls standing passengers… it would be like Gordon Browns gold sell off.

I really hope it wasnt so.. it would mean 4920 Dumbleton Halls reported reported sale for a £1mn into perspective, yet some are saying wcrc arent making sense in their decisions?

the Midland Pullman has booked workings WHL trips 28th May and 18th June, but then 3 x in August, 2x September, 4x October, 1x November. ..

whats more interesting is the Midland Pullman has duplicate dates to different destinations on Sept 21st.. how it can do a FTW-Mallaig turn (as part of a 3 day trip) ,  whilst running Newport to Durham will be interesting… even if they ran a different set of stock on the Mallaig dayout, and it ecs’d from FTW on friday night 2030 to Newport for 5am, did a Newcastle spin and back for 2230 it’ll still be doing well to be back at FTW for Sunday 9am, cleaned, fueled and serviced to bring the other trip south…

two MP HST sets ?

I heard this rumour last week, and it seems its become a reality…

Monday and Tuesday next week, operated by LSL FTW-Mallaig

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U07998/2024-04-08/detailed

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U07999/2024-04-08/detailed

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U08000/2024-04-08/detailed
 

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U08001/2024-04-08/detailed

😀

37667 leading the ecs today…

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U07997/2024-04-03/detailed#allox_id=0

I wonder how many Harry Potter fans will show up to see this ?…

This is the test those rooting for LSL are waiting for… is a Scotrail 37 and mk3’s a sellable product to Mallaig, as reality is that and a Pacer is all LSL currently has spare… is it a jolly train, test train, railtour, a way of sticking the knife in, who knows… But whatever it is the ORR/NR can tick a box that says someone else can run a compliant heritage train up there, even if later it was seen that no one wanted to ride it. (my Mossel Bay comment re Knysna comes to mind).

(url link to Andrewstransport smug mug page).

No sign of a southbound working yet.

50 minutes ago, Legend said:

Is this an April Fool ? Seriously pacers on Fort William to Mallaig . How to  lose the market in one go 

Back in the early 1980’s I recall a fight nearly breaking out when someone suggested bringing a class 40 to Bury.

Along the lines of “weve only got a Western and a Warship because no one else wants them” and “Diesels should live on the other side of Buckley Wells crossing”.. (BR).

The problem with over my dead body statements, is quite often the proposal is accepted.

Its probably safer I dont win the lottery, I like pacers and havent been to FTW for sometime, they have cdl and it looks like theres some spare paths available..

😀

18 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

I think the reality with Pacers is starting to bite with a few of those preserved now being stripped, up for sale or heading for scrap.

 

The hobby has always eaten its young, thats never changed.

i’m sure the SVR regrets scrapping panniers in the 1970’s, and a few groups might of wished saving more Panniers and less Bullied's from Barry, even today an 8F has gone without a trace for just a firebox, several other steam locos exist in frames and webpages only.

The diesel era has completely ignored its emotional roots and is more than happy to trade diesels for scrap, mainline use or even conversion to something else, whilst overlooking favourites based on condition… theres no sincerity there… 56097 is becoming a 69.

What will make Pacers last long is volume. More scrapped = more spares = longer overall life, things like the CoBo, D8233 will always struggle as theres no rusting container in the dark corner of some yard full of spare bits… same logic is why the hobby is full of dull as ditch water J94’s instead of Jintys… cheap and available, several decades later theres not as many as there was at the start, but will probably out last working Bulleids someday.

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

But if the primary selling point is a ride through some pretty countryside then whether something is famous (or infectious) is irrelevant to most people. 
 

if that were true, then this whole thread wouldnt exist, neither would wcrc as a tourist business, as they are providing a product any normal train can already provide…

The public want a product that isnt normal, as normal they can do anytime… being different is the USP.

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

The LSL Pacers are very much a case of Hoskins wanting to play trains rather than them being ideal as the way forward while those which have entered Preservation on heritage lines is largely due to the owners selling them dirt cheap / donating them as a way of avoiding to have to pay to scrap them rather than them being ideal units for use on such lines*

 

Pacers are also banned from some of the most scenic lines in the country - most 15X based units are not!

 

 

* Restored loco hauled four wheeled coaching stock also tends to ride badly - the difference between that and a Pacer is that its (1) usually fitted with very comfortable and deeply sprung seating plus (2) its usually of the compartment format so there is no need to be stood up as it runs along.

all stock is sold cheap, scrap is the very nature of cheap.

if there was perceived value, it wouldn't be scrapped.

its what the owner makes of the scrap object that defines its future value.

Top Gear single handedly made the Morris Marina valuable by destroying them… i’d argue thats the car equivalent of a 142.

Germans use 4 wheeled heritage stock on the mainline, indeed a lot of Europe does….

whats worse is some have wooden bench seats too, verandahs and no doors !… thats actually the selling point.

creature comforts is a British thing, on those they will sell you schnapps to numb the pain, here a 142 tour would be with fish and chips, served with a glass of champagne, with a challenge not to get any of it on the floor as you crossover Crewe… in 20 years it will be a novelty that people pay for… I remember arguments in the 1980’s saying no one would ever ride a preserved mk2… and here we are, dead without them.

its a funny old hobby, but its a generational thing…. Tbh I suspect more than a few here would secretly ride a Pacer over Glenfinnan, just once, if it was offered… Even Sheffield Park caved in to diesels, eventually… a Pacer someday ?.. a Sprinter.. thats just Accrington Stanley… ask the public to name two diesel trains, it will be the HST and a Pacer.

its about the USP, and a Pacer is distinctive… a 150 vs a 197 isnt very different.

when it comes to EMUs how the Arterio has been kept from the public gaze is anyones guess… its a mess as big as the Prasa Afro4000’s and the NS Fyra.

26 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Yes but ride quality cannot be ignored. From that point of view the Sprinter fleet are a far more sensible proposition than a Pacer when it comes to 2nd gen unit.

Weve already established the UK populace has no sense, thats why they need regulating to save them from themselves.

A pacer will be “that train my parent complained about as a kid”… a Sprinter.. no ones heard of it..

So a Pacer is the 2040’s legendary flying scotsman… sadly… passengers will await the squeal, bounce and then cheer… that may last a decade or so before the ORR clamps down on road vehicles being used on the railway… then a whole new thread will appear here.

Weve already seen what an 87 can do to a 142, but a mk1 is less safe apparently… and 2x 142s are in mainline use, more may follow.

41 minutes ago, Claude_Dreyfus said:

You jest, but that sort of thing happens a lot in Japan. A large percentage of tourist trains are rebuilt examples of JNR DMUs and EMUs (KiHa40/48 being probably the most common), which are known by the fantastic term 'Joyful Trains'.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyful_Train

 

Many are adapted for specific routes (big windows in scenic areas, local craftsmanship in the interiors), and prove popular. Rebuilding a couple of 156s when the time comes to run specific WHL tourist services may not he such a mad idea.

Multiple units are popular worldwide for heritage and tourist use on the mainline.

Eastern Europe has oodles of them, as found in South America etc also.

The UK is lagging behind in unit preservation, but things like the wcrc episode bring the day nearer that units become the sensible answer as alternatives like steam, vb, mk1’s become less viable.

Thats why big window, high space, polarising units like 142s will be attractive in the future.

When it comes to making mk2’s safer, maybe look to New Zealand, and what they did to our older stock..

mk2 FO 3394…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_British_Rail_Mark_2_carriage#/media/File:Metlink_SW_3394_at_Masterton_Station.JPG
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_British_Rail_Mark_2_carriage#/media/File:SD_masterton.jpg
 

When other countries can do this with our cast offs, you have to wonder why we are unwilling to try… I guess we have too much money and can afford this kind of waste, where as others havent as much, and so cannot afford to waste, hence come up with innovative solutions… but I guess whos money is being wasted, and is the person wasting it the owner of that money… its easy to blow someone elses credit card… and when you dont have a credit card, you need an eye for a bargain and a keen mind.

9 hours ago, StuAllen said:

TBH I don’t think most passengers on the Jacobite travel on the line because it’s the West Highland Line and the spectacular views - they aren’t enthusiasts, they travel on it because of the Harry Potter connection, they want steam and coaches that look similar to those in the film (don’t forget in some of the scenes they were on open carriages it wasn’t all corridor stock.

 

I was booked on the Jacobite a couple of years ago but the journey was cancelled due to a strike, and didn’t we have time during the few days we stayed at Fort William to do the journey using Scotrail instead due to other planned activities.

 

A few pictures from our trip to Glenfinnan Viaduct the day after the strike day shows that people only care about steam.

 

The Jacobite has 7 full coaches, there were 100s of people on the hillside to take photos, but none waited around for the pair of 156’s the arrived not long after - barely half full.  There were 4 Jacobites services cancelled that week so if people wanted to travel the line then I would have expected to see the Scotrail service to have been full.

someday, people will appreciate the class 156.

They will be preserved.

They will run railtours.

They are the future of Heritage on the mainline

someday.

😀

20 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Yet most railway companies, the LNWR being an excellent example, liked to number locos, wagons etc, with the lowest number they had sitting on the shelf from retired vehicles. That way they could tell how many locos they had in the fleet, by looking at the highest number and subtracting any lower number plates, sitting on the shelf.

 

Did most companies with cast plates, use this method?

is this how football clubs developed player numbers for shirts ?

8 hours ago, Matt37268 said:

That is incredibly strong and emotive. 

20+ years then quitting, I wouldn't expect less.

What do volunteers get for 20 years work.. nothing, this isn't redundancy or retirement, you will be forgotten in a week.

you are not paid, you have no value.

its hard to learn you are worthless and opinion counts for nothing.

That is how it is unfortunately.

It does worry me, where preservation is heading and is Charity models right for heritage railways ?

The roots of heritage lines are groups of volunteers, rallying a cause. So decisions are by like minded individuals towards a common cause.

You cant ignore in the years theres been loads of passionate discussions about competing ideals but it produced the industry that exists.

The problem with charities I see is it divorces those volunteers from the cause. Charities are basically businesses who can make their own decisions without accountability to the volunteers, indeed they can even get rid of the very volunteers who created the charity, or marginalise them to supporters groups.

Theres a lot of kudos to be had by being a charity director, so you can often see career builders taking such roles, who often lack the passion, history, dedication of the volunteer cause, but place the badge along side their external professional role to elevate themselves, and often are appointed by peers in such roles at the charity and are hard to remove and dont answer to the volunteers.  where as volunteer groups election to higher position requires group consensus of the membership, as does their easy removal.

how about this scenario…

1. Group of lads found a football club,

2. Rattle a tin for years, buy a pitch

3. Elect the players, captain, club admins, pay annual subs, does well, builds a stand, bar, other buildings

4. joins league, starts earning real money

5. Decided to protect the club from the risks of the league, so make an ltd for the business side of the games revenue using clubs directors.

6. Decide turning the business to a charity for tax and fundraising, turn over club assets to the charity, directors are self elected to charity rules and self governing. Club members become the supporters club.

7. Directors change strategy, appoint new board members, from ex Professional clubs, local authority, sports bodies, arts foundations and a property investor. Decide you dont need to join the supporters club to be a volunteer member of the football club.
8. The supporters Club members dont like it but cannot change it. Stress occurs, supporters club is asked to leave, and supporters club ultimately folds.

9. Charity decides to spin off a new CIO, with own directors in place. Reports trading is hard, costs high with paid staff, cannot get volunteers. CIO Agrees to sell the ltd business to those directors for £1 who form a for profit ltd. Charity closes, ltd sells the land for property development, directors cash out.

I’m seeing various patterns like this at preserved lines around the country, many around the 6,7,8 mark.

Its usually step 7 when you see the explosions of time served volunteers on the internet, who realise their life passion is for nothing and theres no influence on management for their efforts.. often resulting in major fights between the charity and the supporters club who founded it. At this point its too late.. the child is an adult and its left home for good.

I do think in the future we will see selected lines become owned by companies like Merlin Entertainment, others maybe become charities controlling multiple lines. For some closure, part closure, redevelopment is a possibility, and others maybe reintegrated to the network as a rail, guided bus, tramway or cycle path.

i’m not convinced railways, hospitals and aid agencies all fit well in the same corporate framework.

My all time favourite though is this one (none railway related)…

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7702913.stm
 

Quote

When officials asked for the Welsh translation of a road sign, they thought the reply was what they needed.

Unfortunately, the e-mail response to Swansea council said in Welsh: "I am not in the office at the moment. Send any work to be translated".

surely this sign would be fun to be replicated on a model railway layout scene somewhere and see if anyone notices