drduncan

I’d consider it a blessing...

Ok, so where were we? Ah, yes the victim had been reduced to pieces (or at least stripped of its means of movement( and was ready for reconstructive surgery. So now it is time to address the thorny subject of wheels. As I mentioned before, you have basically three choices: Aland Gibson, Markits and Ultrascale. So lets compare what you can get for how much using a Bachmann 2251 Collett goods as our exemplar. Ultrascale offer a conversion pack that includes all wheels (inc tender) and crankpins - in fact as they state - everything you will need. They also have notes offering advice on how to do the conversion. What you get from Ultrascale. See: https://www.ultrascale.uk/eshop/products/view/CAT007/30 This will set you back £96.58 for wheels with Nickel Silver tyres or £70.57 for brass tyres (some Ultrascale packs offer steel tyres too which seem a couple of £ cheaper - the 3F tender engine for example). Ultrascale also state that the product is supplied as per the image. I take this to mean that the wheels arrive in the case of the the 2251 ready assembled - so quartered, correct back to back gauge, pins fitted and and with a (brass) gearwheels fitted in place. All you have to do is drop them in and add the coupling rods, reassemble, test admire followed by a bragging session at your local club of choice (although if you don't do the bragging at a model railway club you might get some odd looks or comments). So all in all quite a good deal. You can get the wheels unassembled with separate pins included and without a gear wheel for about £10 cheaper (in the 2251 example) - just make sure you select the correct diameter axle for the driving wheels. The biggest problem is that the range or ready assembled wheels is quite small - The range of Bachmann steam engines covered is just 5, but both the standard DIY wheel range and the diesel conversion range is much more comprehensive. Which brings me to a useful digression … whatever your interest period if you are moving to EM or P4, buy a cheapo 2nd hand Bachmann or Hornby diesel, convert it (much quicker and simpler than a steam loco - I did one using an Ultrascale drop in set in under 30 mins) and you'll have something to test your track with (aka playing trains) while you build and convert your way to finescale nirvana. Markits also offer complete conversion packs, the GWR 2251 is £72.15 (I emailed them to check) and for this you get all wheels (all with nickel silver tyres), 'super deluxe' crankpins and axle nut covers. The Markits wheels will need assembly (and the gear wheel(s) salvaging from the victim), but they are self quartering so that is a considerable amount of heartache and pain done away with. It is unclear whether these packs use their 'standard' profile or the finer flanged RP25 profile. If you know please let me know. It is also unclear from the website/catalogue whether P4 profile wheels can be supplied (I'm not hopeful) so these are probably an EM only option. Again, remember to state gauge (OO is their default) and axle diameter when ordering. Sometimes the Markits axle nut covers etch included in the conversion packs have balance weights too (for example the LNER V2) - a bonus that will save you fabricating them later. Finally, there is Alan Gibson. AG also offer a conversion pack for the Bachmann 2251 Collet Goods at £20.00 with steel tyred wheels. However, this pack is for the driving wheels only. So when tender wheels, crankpins and coupling rod bushes are included that takes the price up to £37.70 (prices from the most recent catalogue (2018) on the Alan Gibson website). So buy Ultrascale and get a drop in set, spend £24.43 less and you get everything you need for Markits but with some assembly required, spend £34.45 less than that and you get Alan Gibson with quite a lot of assembly required. But what Alan Gibson has in its favour (apart from being cheap) is that because its not an all in one deal you can spread the cost. Being a perennially poor thanks to a multitude of children much as I would love to buy Ultrascale drop in products (and if you ask me to do a conversion for you I'm afraid I'll insist you do) I usually end up using AG products. So having laid out your choices in wheels, I'm going to ignore choice and concentrate on the ones that are cheapest and also probably need the most work. (It has struck me that these two things may be related). The first thing to note is that Alan Gibson doesn't have an e-commerce portal (unlike Ultrascale), but then again Markits don't either (or do lots of others) relying instead on human determination and the innate stubbornness of the finescale modeller in trying to press money on businesses that often give an impression of not wanting to take it off us. For AG products there is a short cut - the EM Gauge Society stock his conversion packs and a limited range of other AG products - but unfortunately not the whole range. Happily they stock both EM and P4 versions, so another reason to be an EMGS member (even if you do P4). So in preparing and assembling our AG wheels there are 4 different tasks: Fit crankpins Fit balance weights Assemble on the axle Quarter them Fitting crankpins. This is the job I do first for a number of reason, mostly centred on its much easy to do them now than when the wheels are on the axle (or even on the loco). Some points to note: Some Alan Gibson wheels (the very earliest ones made for the range, like if my memory is correct, the J15) don't actually have any crankpin holes. Instead there is a blind drill mark at the location where you have to drill the hole. How big a hole? Ideally 0.75mm (see https://www.trfastenings.com/Products/knowledgebase/Tables-Standards-Terminology/Tapping-Sizes-and-Clearance-Holes ) as this will mean that the M1 machine screws AG supplies as crankpins will then cut their own thread in the plastic wheel centre. However, I have used 0.7mm drill bits quite successfully. The difficult bit is making sure that your hole is at right angles to the face of the wheel. Take your time, look at it from many angles as you slowly drill the hole.... If it isn't it might be enough to cause binding as it will, as it rotates, slightly increase and decease the distance between the wheels (or actually the pins) and we all know thanks to the great Iain Rice the importance of wheelbase and coupling rods matching.... don't we? I have in the past done this by hand, but now that I'm the slightly smug owner of a drill press and machine vice, hand shake is now a thing of the past. Here we have a set of AG wheels destined for a Bachmann Stainer mogul (or it might be a Jubilee, but I think a Mogul). Left is as it comes out of the packet with no crankpin hole. Centre, with the crankpin hole drilled - and you can see its right on the edge of the indie of the boss. Right, countersunk ready for the crankpin to be fitted. Although I'll talk about coupling and connecting rods separately, it is also worth considering the combined thickness of the coupling and connecting rods, especially as with some that aim for a more prototypical profile (and why not?) through using multiple etched layers they can end up thicker than the bit of the AG crankpin that is left sticking out of the wheel. (It is also worth checking this even if you intend reusing the RTR rods - better safe than sorry.) If they are too short it can be solved by getting longer ones (yes I know - duh!!) (still M1 though) from any one of a multitude of sellers, many of whom inhabit ebay which at least makes buying them easy. However, longer ones can make using the GW quartering jig hard as they will be too long to fit in the receiver (answer only use long ones when you have to, shorten them as much as possible (but still giving you 2mm proud of the rods, screw them half in way, quarter the axle, and then screw pins fully home - but more on this later). The M1 machine screws have countersunk heads but the wheels do not have countersunk holes to receive them. So grab a 1.5mm or better a 2mm twist drill, centre it in the hole and give it a quick couple of twists (but no more) to provide a counter sink but not one so deep as to go through the wheel...I normally don't even put it in a pin vice, instead just holding it in my fingers. It is possible for the screws to unscrew themselves if the crankpin nut or eccentric crank is a bit tight on the thread. As this happens when the wheel is mounted on the loco, it is very difficult (but not impossible) to get it back in without undoing a lot of work. So when, happy with all other aspects of the budding relationship between wheel, rods and crankpin, you decide to fully screw the pin home, stop just before the head goes into the countersink. Using a pin introduce a bead of superglue between crankpin head and countersink and quickly screw home. This is especially important if you have overtightened the screw at any point and therefore stripped the soft plastic thread the screw cuts for itself. On some of the wheels the rear of the boss intrudes into the spot where the countersink will need to go. So grab a scalpel (or better yet a chisel ended scalpel blade and carve away the area so you have nice flat space to countersink. Fit the balance weights. Take it from me (because I have forgotten to do this at this stage enough times), it is a lot easy to fit the balance weights now. The can use etched or pre cut plasticard ones from Markits or Ultrascale (or indeed anyone that makes such things) or you can make your own out of 5 thou plasticard and a set of dividers. Once the balance weights are fitted you can also, should the urge take you, paint/blacken tyre rims and paint balance weights - again its a lot easier now than once coupling rods are in place and you are staring at your new pride and joy wondering what isn't quite right (and its starting to annoy you....). If you are one of the sensible people doing an ornate pregroup livery that has wheels other than black, definitely paint them now, and you may as well line them too if needed. For the Claude Hamilton I found that an egg cup was the perfect radius for finishing off the balance weights. Just to show that I don't do what I say I should do. I forgot the balance weights on the Claude Hamilton until I had reassembled everything... Assemble the wheels on the axle. First things first. Make sure the axle is the right length (because it won't be if you are EM'ing your loco - AG supplies P4 length axles that you have to reduce to length for EM). Finding out what the correct length is easy. Take a pair of wheels and your back to back gauge. Using hands (if you're like me you'll need two) hold the wheels on either side on the back to back gauge. Then (possibly using the third hand that you get issued with on joining the finescale fraternity) place a digital vernier /caliper/gauge across the two wheel bosses, note the distance, and then, because you are squeezing the wheels too hard to try to keep a grip on everything, catapult them into the air. The next bit may sound bad, but it really isn't. Reduce the axle to length. First use a black Sharpie (or similar) pen to paint a nice thick band around the axle roughly where you'll be cutting. Then with your vernier calipers put one end at the end that isn't black, and gently lay the other vernier prong aginst the other, spin the axle with your fingers and lo, a thin line shall appear around the axle. And there was much rejoicing. Which was rapidly stopped by the thought of how to cut the axle accurately. You have effectively two choices: Put axle in Dremmel (or similar) shove in a vice, set Dremmel in motion, attack with bastard file until either the axle is the right length or you say goodbye to your fingers. I DO NOT USE OR ADVOCATE THIS METHOD. I know exactly how hard it is cleaning blood of walls and the ceiling (admittedly this was after a minor table saw accident but my darling wife still doesn't let me forget about it and the club I was with at the time were a bit off with me too as it was their walls and ceiling). The safer way is to use a lathe with a parting off tool. Preferably someone elses - another reason to join a club, access to machine tools and gadgets you use too infrequently (or are too expensive) to justify having yourself. The next important job is to offer up one of your newly trimmed axles into the slots for the driven axle. Make sure you have an equal amount of axle sticking out of each side and part with your Sharpie (or similar) where the gear wheel needs to go. Marking the position of the gear wheel on the axle. Then using the bastard file knurl the axle where you have marked. This means, on a resilient surface (not a hard one) like a cutting mat, using the short edge (mines about 4mm across), place it on the axle where you have marked roll the axle while pushing down hard with the file - don't allow the file to wander - and bingo a knurled axle that will probably grip your final drive gear wheel. Knurling the axle for the gear wheel. Work out how many spacing washers for each axle. A tip - if you have outside cylinders etc go for no sideplay if there will be a wheel lurking behind the cylinders or slide bars - its just too infuriating to assemble everything and then find that on a curve the crankpin fouls the outside gubbings. For the other non gear wheel axles, probably not more than 1mm in total (unless you have a huge wheelbase and tiny curves to get it round). On the axle with the gear wheel, as much as you can without causing the gear wheel to lose contact with the intermediate gears - probably less the 0.5mm in total. So take the chassis, measure its width where the axle slots are, take this away from your back to back measurement and divide by 2 gives you the sideplay possible on each side. Then just add 1/8 inch brass washers of suitable thicknesses until you have the sideplay that you want. Take a 6mm (or there abouts drill bit) and using your fingers give it a quick twist where the axle fits into the rear of the wheel, just to take the sharp edge off and help the axle locate itself hopefully perpendicularly to the wheel when its is assembled. Now its time to assemble the wheels ready to quarter them. As I use a GW wheel press and quartering jig I'm assuming you will too...So: Take an axle, add the gear wheel by pressing it on carefully and without twisting it until it is in the correct position. Add any brass bearing that might have been included on the victim by the manufacturer, add the required spacing washers each side and grab a pair of wheels. And move to the quartering section. Repeat with the other axles. Quartering. Using a wheel press and quartering jig like the GW models one to fit AG wheels (or Ultrascale self assembly ones) should reduce your troubles here, but there is wheel wobble to think about. (I'm not going to worry about Markits ones as they are self quartering.) Simply put, even using the jig might not stop a wheel going on not quite square leading to a wobble. My view is that this is caused by the wheel boss sticking out beyond the wheel tyre, allowing it to twist on the mounting stud as the wheels are squeezed in the press. To stop this I have superglued 30thou of plasticard about 6mm above and below the mounting stud on each side of the wheel press. My modified GW wheels press. So you now should have the jig, with a wheel in each half, an axle with all the bits (bearings, spacing washers, gear wheel etc) and you are wondering how to get it all together. Well, it can be a bit of a juggle but three hands probably won't be needed - (but doing the chamfer of the inside of the axle socket mentioned above will help), and gently close the jig until the axle just starts to engage with the wheel. At this point stop, reach for your back to back gauge and insert it so that as you close the jig with finger pressure the B2B gauge will ensure that you set the correct gauge. Squeezing everything together with the B2B gauge in place. The jig is designed for axles that are the correct length, but this might not be the case, and it is easier to set the B2B now, rather than later. When you feel the jig press the axle home, release it and you have a wheel that is probably square and probably quartered. But until we get the coupling rods on, we can't be sure that each axle has exactly the same quartering...

Heartily sick of updating my preferences every time I come back to an open tab and update rmweb. Andy, please make it stop. DrDuncan

It looks familiar but I just can’t quite place it. D

Now I’ve only written a couple or so articles for the model railway press, but in writing them I have I supposed reflected not just what interests me but also how to write about it. (I suppose I should make time to write more.) So to the question to what articles would cause me to buy a magazine... I like to pretend I’m a finescale modeller, so things that reflect a finescale approach and would encourage others to follow suit. So while rtr out of the box often leaves me cold, so too does the fortunately rare ‘hair shirt’ brand of finescale that seems to revel in the impossibility of anyone emulating it. And as someone who is scratching a Broad Gauge itch at the moment I’m very aware I’m probably running close to accusations of hypocrisy. So while carving driving wheels by hand from mild steel because xxx’s products aren’t good enough shows dedication , I’d prefer to read to someone’s experience in getting xxx’s wheels to retain their tyres/add the crankpin holes that the manufacturer didn’t/stay on the axle. Or what have you. Anything by Iain Rice (and his disciples) as they are thought provoking, full of ideas and prototype info, often humorous, and make finescale believable and achievable. Any article that points out P4 running can be improved by using EM flanges.... [Such a shame Bob Barlow’s untimely death led to the closing of the Finescale Modelling Review so soon after it was launched.] DrDuncan

The issue will be the effect moving the frames will have in the cylinders. I think I will use a replacement comet 4 cylinder set which are mounted on their own sub frame. D

Some socially inept modellers are actually quite clean. I think we need more precision... they are ‘hygienically inert’ but clearly they can also be (but it’s not compulsory) socially inept. D

I’ve got a Great Bear to build in EM and I have a lot of thinking to do about what to do with the fold up OO only chassis. DrDuncan

I think it is the replacement of the bridge across Clement St/High St/Old Warwick Road in Leamington Spa. Duncan

From the passenger’s clothing it has an Edwardian feel. Was that your era when you you did 4mm? Duncan

Fantastic project. I look forward to seeing it progress. Shame there won’t be any Spinners and Kirtley 2-4-0s in use.... Incidentally, what happened to the 7mm version at Slaters? Duncan

Love the thread. Just wondering whether given the amount of kit and scratch building whether you had considered doing this in EM, perhaps making use of the EM gauge society ready to run points? Duncan

it is relatively easy - sometimes easier than converting an RTR chassis to EM or P4! Do look at the Rice books they have lots of tips that apply to designing and building a chassis no mater what the material. D

Nucast kits are good - or were - and the comments about the revamped and re-released ones from the SEF/Branchlines partnership are also good. So I’d consider any nucast (but not ex k’s) inside cylindered 0-6-0 with or without tender as being only a little more advanced than building a plastic kit. Yes you may need to clean up castings, but you have to this on plastic kits too. Use expoy or superglue and you don’t have to worry about soldering white metal. The chassis might be more involved but build it ridged and that makes things much easier. Ian Rice has done good books on building white metal locos and etched chassis construction that give lots of tips and also suggest designs you should not buy! Give it a go! DrDuncan

And you can get ready to run EM gauge points now...courtesy of the EMGS!

Dear Kris, Just had a very enjoyable stroll through your thread. Very impressive modelling and I look forward to seeing how both bridges develop! All the best, Duncan

The best bit of advice I was given about EM or P4 - and it’s the only thing I’d offer as advice to anyone thinking about taking the plunge is irrespective of your interests, buy a cheap 2nd hand diesel, fit ultrascale drop in replacement wheel sets and bingo you’ve got something to test your track (and play with) while you get on with converting/building your stock. D

Thanks! I confess I enjoy making chassis (I have a large number ‘in progress’ to prove this), in fact the only RTR conversions using their original chassis I have in my EM collection are a City of Truro (completed), and a Star (in progress). All the ones in the blog post above were for other people.

What minimum thickness did you use for the cab sides and roof area? DrDuncan

Ah. Once son no 2 stops trying to climb all over me I’ll give it a try... D

They certainly needed bushing of which more in part 2 (or maybe 3) D

Peter, They are massive - and we’ll meet some of the joys this can throw up later after I’ve gone through the delights of getting the wheels in some sort of order! D

I have no idea why additional copies of images used in this post (and one unused one) have appeared at the end. D

This is Mikkel's fault (something that Gareth of fond memory and posts past will be extremely grateful). Mikkel kindly commented that he had found one of my blog posts useful for visualizing the work required for EM/P4 RTR conversions. Unfortunately, the all too brief skirting over a great deal of faffing around with that particular conversion may give a false impression of the work - or thought - required. The theoretical basic flow is something like this: Invert victim in a suitable cradle (I use a PECO loco servicing cradle made from foam) Remove nut/bolt/pin securing the connecting rod to the driven axle (if victim has outside cylinders) Remove keeper plate (save screws in suitable container). Remove driving wheels. Remove coupling rods from wheels and remove carefully gear wheel from driven axle. Remove any pony/bogie/tender wheels. There - very simple. Now just put it back together... Assemble chosen tender wheels and fit Assemble pony/bogie wheels and fit Knurl the driven axle and fit the gear wheel Assemble and fit the driving wheels Fit coupling rods Fit connecting rod Refit Walscherts kitting (if used) Test Bask in the glory of your achievement. There. Extremely simple. Only practice can be very different... The actual flow: THINK about what you are about to do and the order that your think you need to do it! Research; has anyone else done this before and what do they say about it? Are there guides? - Alan Gibson (AG) does some on his website using his products (obv) but the EMGS has their own manual sheets too (and is one of many reasons for joining this society even if you aren't EM but are more interested in a finer approach...) I'm not an S4 member so can't comment on what they supply but I can't imagine that they don't have similar advice sheets. Read such guides/instructions carefully - do not assume they will be correct. I know of at least one set where it looks like earlier components (in the instructions) had not been fitted at later points in the build photos...and yes it made a difference. So do think critically about what you are being told/suggested to do! ORDER the necessary components/tools. Some of the bits ordered to convert a Bachmann Ivatt/Standard class 2 2-6-0 to P4. Note AG colours the P4 bits blue compared to yellow for OO/EM/general parts.... Wheels: Make sure you have 3mm axles not 1/8 inch ones! You effectively have 3 choices: Markits/Romford (££); Alan Gibson (£); Ultrascale (£££). [I know Sharman wheels are now available but I don't know if they can be supplied for 3mm axles]. Markits are pricey compared to AG but are self quartering (which AG aren't); Ultrascale can supply pre-assembled but you wait about 6 months and they aren't cheap (but are extremely high quality). The EMGS do EM and P4 AG conversion kits; these normally are just the driving wheels and crankpins needed Make sure you get the correct profile - EM wheels aren't the same as P4 ones (although according to an article in a past MRJ (so it cannot be untrue)...no let's not go there again; certain P4 practitioners might just have a stroke if I bring that topic up again) Spacing washers - 2mm and 1/8 in a variety of thicknesses 1mm/0.5mm/0.25mm. Buy more than you think you'll need; RTR chassis are very narrow! You'll only need about 0.5-1mm of side play (and in P4 you may need much less behind slide bars and piston crossheads) Do you want to use cosmetic sideframes? Ultrascale do some... Crankpins to suit the wheel. Ultrascale do a variety to suit the amount of space ie special thin ones for tight spots behind those pesky slidebars. Valve gear rivets if doing anything with outside valve gear AG coupling rod bushes or do you want to use some of the replacement rod sets made by people like Lancashire Model Supplies that are designed for specific RTR models? If doing Walschaerts outside valve gear (first why????) you'll also need a pair of eccentric cranks - AG and Markits do them and they are not (to my knowledge) interchangeable ie if you're using AG crankpins you'll need an AG eccentric crank and vice versa. Tools 1: if using Markits have you got one of their axle nut spanners? If not get one - its worth the hassle saved. If AG/Ultrascale do you want to get a quartering jig/wheel press? (Yes you do...) Driving wheel balance weights? Make your own from 5 thou plasticard, use Ultrascale laser cut ones, or Markits etched ones? Or from another source? Tools 2: You will need: Some sort of loco cradle (mine is from Peco) Flat and round needle files Pliers Side cutters Permanent marker pen Soldering iron, solder, flux (non corrosive please) Scalpel/craft knife 6" or longer bastard file. EM or P4 back to back gauge to taste. You may need: Cutting broaches (definitely if using AG Walschaerts eccentric crank) 1mm tap (as above) 0.7mm drill and pin vice Parallel pliers Empty clutch pencil hand vice small vice with smooth jaws. A Micro Rail 'truck tuner' A brass bearing tool: Some things to ponder or try not to forget to do as you invalidate the manufacturers warranty by taking the beastie to pieces: Body on or off? Body on is sometimes faster but any outside gubbins will get in the way and slow you down. Better to take the body off so you can unscrew cylinder blocks and motion brackets (especially with Walschaerts valve gear) to decrease the chance of snapping anything like a connecting rod where it is stamped into a crosshead (been there, done that). Keeping the body on does decrease the number of screws you can lose... A Bachmamn L & Y Radial tank being converted to P4 for the Gosport Guru (who had me do three in a row). This lacked any outside gubbins at all so was easy to do with the body on... What about all the bits? Plastic boxes and bags are your friends and something to put there and the body, chassis etc in will also help too. I use carefully cleaned (in the dishwasher) Chinese takeawy boxes... A Hornby J15 disassembled (well nearly) ready for conversion to EM. Beware keeper plate wiring between pickups and motor. Hornby and Bachmann seem to favour using spit as solder and gossamer thin wires that snap as soon as you look at them. Although breaking the soldered connection may require fiddley soldering to put right, replacing the dodgy wires with something better can allow you to do outrageous that manufacturers seem to think aren't necessary on all models - like tender pick ups, dcc sockets and moving the dcc socket into the tender where it can be accessed without going near any painfully reassembled (and temperamental bits) on the loco proper. You'll need to get the wheels off the axles to recover the gear wheel and any axle bearings (not that these are always deemed necessary by some manufacturers). Do not twist the gear wheel - its on a knurled axle to you'll damage it if you do. Direct downward pressure to shift it only (I use pliers)... Using pliers to spread apart the wheels from a Hornby Claud Hamilton (EM conversion) to recover the axle bearings. With everything nicely reduced to components you can start putting it back together. If your pride (and possibly still at this stage, joy) has a tender start your surgery with that. Some RTR tenders are designed for inside bearings (like the Claud Hamilton tender below), some rely on outside bearings like the Stainier mogul even further below. Inside bearing use blunt axles, ouside bearing ones will normally need pin point ones. The Hornby Claude Hamilton tender showing (amongst other things) the plastic inside bearing that the axles push fit into. You may need to remove some material either from the inside face of the frames or around any slots in the tender floor for the wheels to get the wider EM/P4 wheels to fit and turn freely. For an outside bearing tender it is almost certainly worth giving the plastic pin point bearing surfaces a tune with the Micro Mark (or similar) 'Truck Tuner'. The tender from a Stanier mogul being treated to a 'Trick Tune' to ream out plastic outside bearings. You can also see where material has been removed from the inside face of the frame to get the wheels to fit. In the next part (cos I'm sure you're bored now and I want to moan about the Bachmann Standard 4 Mogul elsewhere) I'll talk about the practicalities of getting the new wheels installed, mostly concentrating on the Alan Gibson offerings. All the best and stay safe. Duncan

Mikkel, EM is usually much easier than P4 (especially with outside cylinders etc) (and I’m not just saying it because I do EM; although there is an EM perseverance 43xx chassis on the bench that is being difficult - I can’t see how Ian Rice managed to build one in P4 and get the thing to work...and the 28xx saga is definitely an exception to prove the rule) and the process in theory is straightforward for either. If you are a builder rather than a driver then either is worth thinking about but EM is probably ahead in the game thanks to RTR track via the EM Gauge Society... [And going through my records it seems I’ve done more P4 conversions than EM for other people...] You’ve also pricked my conscience about conversions on RM web and I’ll try to do something about that when I can... Duncan