robertcwp

In the 'Get Carter' clip the restaurant is an RUO, identifiable by the luggage racks. The FK is a Mark IIa, distinguishable from a IIb by the lack of interior doors at the corridor ends to separate off the vestibules.

This is the only colour photo of a V-front I have, albeit one of the later 'Berkshire' units. 1132_Fawley by robertcwp, on Flickr

Doubles such as 22, 66 etc were in use from the late 1950s. However they were confined to non-electrified routes and used by DEMUs, all of which had roller blinds from new. Victoria-East Grinstead was 66 long before the line was electrified. I think 22 was Charing Cross-Hastings from when the DEMUs were introduced.

The David Brown books only go up until 1983 and don't include great detail on which stock worked which lines. Roughly, from 1970, stock on the Eastbourne-Hastings line would typically have been: 4 Cig on through workings from London, with occasional appearances by 4 Cep unlts in the 1970s and possibly very early 1980s. 2 Bil/2 Hal on local workings until 1970/71. 4 Cor on local workings in 1971/2. SR 2 Hap 1972-6 BR 2 Hap, later formed in permanent pairs as 4 Cap, late 1970s and early 1980s Vep and Cig stock from 1970s onwards. Later (I forget when) most 4 Big units lost their buffets and had their compartments opened out, becoming 3 Cop for use on the Coastway services. For example, the 1977 carriage workings show a mix of Hap, Vep and Cig on East Coastway workings from Brighton.

The legislation in question was the Sex Discrimination Act 1975, which came into force at midnight on 31 December 1975. By that time, there were few, if any, units left in service on the SR that had such compartments, but there were still Mark I non-gangwayed vehicles with Ladies Only compartments (normally the compartment in the BS next to the guard's van). The Ladies Only designations were removed in the autumn of 1975, according to notes on the stock made at the time by Peter Neville, who was a commuter on the GN at the time. It had also been practice on at least some parts of BR to designate compartments as such on some services, notably overnight ones. This would have been done by labelling and would also have been discontinued by no later than when the Act came into force.

David Brown's book gives July 1970 as the changeover date on the Reading line from Bil/Hal to Cor stock, itself displaced by Cig stock from January 1972.

Looking at the carriage workings from the 1950s, there were some scheduled 4-car trains to Horsted Keynes and even a 6 Bil working in the November 1959 carriage workings. In 1953, everything there was scheduled for Nols except one Bil working, though Bils and Nols often worked services scheduled for the other type. By November 1959, the Nols had gone and the Bils were supplemented by Hals (though these were shown as Bil in the workings).

The 4 Cor is 3109 in blue livery.

Here is a closer view, showing some of the differences betweek CK, FK and BTK: 45569_Harrow_1952_crop by robertcwp, on Flickr And here is a CK in unbranded LMS livery (this is a very small part of a 35mm negative): 46201_WeaverJct_1949_crop by robertcwp, on Flickr

You can see the difference in profile between the porthole CK and a regular LMS carriage here: 45569_Harrow_1952 by robertcwp, on Flickr

After the 2 Nol units were withdrawn and the 2 Hals transferred from the Gillingham and Maidstone lines (displaced by 2 Haps) Bils and Hals would have become an everyday sight all along the coast from Ore to Brighton, as well as working to Horstead Keynes. Here is one at Hastings: 2-BIL_2055_1004_Hastings by robertcwp, on Flickr And one at Seaford: 2BIL_2087_m by robertcwp, on Flickr

I had a look at the September 1954 Central Section EMU workings. These show very few Bil workings east of Brighton and Keymer Junction. Bils were much more common along the coast west of Brighton. They had a virtual monopoly on the Three Bridges-Bognor via Horsham service. Their London workings were often in combination with 4 Lav units though a few 8 Bil formations are also listed. This changed later in the 1950s with the transfer of 2 Hal units from the Eastern Section and the withdrawal of the 2 Nol units. Also, the Three Bridges-Bognor service was extended to Victoria, including a Gatwick portion which usually comprised a 'tin' Hal. Apart from the Gatwick Hals, no distinction was made in the carriage workings between Bil and Hal stock, both usually being listed as Bil. In the Western Section September 1953 workings, Bils dominated the Reading line (off peak mostly 2 Bil for Reading and 2 Bil for Guildford, dividing at Ascot) and the Alton/Portsmouth stopping services. The latter were usually 4 Bil for each, dividing at Woking. There were a couple of scheduled Bil workings via Epsom: the 5.15 pm Waterloo-Horsley and 5.54 pm Waterloo-Dorking North (both of which ran down the fast line as far as Raynes Park) were listed as 8 Bil (8 Cor was not unknow). As on the Central Section, 'Bil' in the carriage workings would also include 'Hal' stock. 8 Bil is the maximum I could see on the Western Section in 1953.

At least one CK, two SK and around half-a-dozen BSK, possibly more, carried blue/grey.

There was an earlier thread on these coaches: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/51903-lms-porthole-corridor-stock/page-2&do=findComment&comment=776986 (ADMIN - now merged with this one). Also, there were photos of the EP samples here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64646-latest-developments-from-Bachmann-farish/&do=findComment&comment=853970 And my comments on them here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64646-latest-developments-from-Bachmann-farish/page-4&do=findComment&comment=857454 I hope the delay is so that they can make a few tweaks. Also, I don't think any images of the CK have been released yet. These vehicles had a unique profile amongst LMS designs and it will be interesting to see if Bachmann are able to capture their shape. There are a couple of preserved ones to help them do so.

12-car sets of Bil and Hal stock were common on peak-hour outer-suburban workings from Waterloo in the mid-1960s, especially once the platforms between Surbiton and Woking had been lengthened to permit 12-car trains. Here is another one: 2-BIL_2127_Wimbledon_13-6-69 by robertcwp, on Flickr The depth of field is not great, but the second unit is a Hal and the third looks like a Bil, followed by another Hal. Note four out of six unis have full yellow ends but all are still green.

Correction! The photo I was looking at was of the motor third brake of unit 1897, later 2007, from the first batch of 10 which were different to the other 142 2 Bil units. The photo is in Vol 2 of the David Brown Southern Electric history which, incidentally, includes a very good history of the Southern Railway EMUs. Looking at the photos in the same book of 2116 and 2152 when new, they had the later style of shoebeam with only a short horizontal top section immediately above the shoe, which suggests the shape Hornby have used is wrong for most of the class.

The photographer was Anthony Nokes. He died a few years ago and his original colour slides were purchased from his estate with full copyright by a dealer I know. I then bought some of those slides from that dealer, with copyright transferring to me. So it is an image that I own, otherwise it wouldn't be on my Flickr account. Also I have enabled the 'BB code' (whatever that is) at the request of RMWeb members so that they can post images from my collection into posts on other forums that support such things in a way that links back to my Flickr site rather than copying the image and posting it. So, anyone can go to the site (there is a link at the foot of this post), go to an image and click on 'Share' at the top. There is then an option 'Grab the HTML/BBCode' - click and select BBCode then copy and paste the text into a post. This is what you get: 2-BIL_2032_Weybridge_28-7-64 by robertcwp, on Flickr For further explanation, see 'Where is the HTML code and photo file link?' on this page: http://www.flickr.com/help/photos/#2265887 Provided photos are used this way, anyone can post them to a forum that supports such code. All they are doing is posting a sophisticated link to the image, rather than lifting the image and posting it. Click on the photo and it will take you to my Flickr site.

Here is a 2 Hal with a difference: 2-HAL_2626_Wdon_7-7-67 by robertcwp, on Flickr

A photo of the motor third brake of 2011 when new shows it to have a shoebeam that appears to be similar in shape to the Hornby model, but later photos show a different shape to be more common (like those typically seen on 4 Sub units and SR 4 EPBs). Edit: see later post for correction http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65633-Hornby-2-bil/page-10&do=findComment&comment=887911

Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the bodyshell of the driving trailer essentially the same, give or take a few minor details, as the body of a motor second from a three-car set? If so, then that's a long way towards a 116 or 117. My vote is for a 116 as they were far more numerous and worked in more areas, including King's Cross outer suburban services for around a decade (not to be confused with the outwardly similar Class 125 hydraulic sets). The 116 must rank as one of the most numerous DMU types not to have been modelled in 4mm scale RTR, with around 300 vehicles built. Back to 121s - don't forget this rather unusual one: 55033_2_BarntGreen_24-7-90 by robertcwp, on Flickr 55033_1_BarntGreen_24-7-90 by robertcwp, on Flickr

The fourth vehicle in this train looks like it's a steel-panelled one. Not all sets had brakes at each end but, looking at the carriage workings, many had two brakes. BT-CL-BT was a very common basic formation, strengthened by as many T as were necessary according to the traffic.

The Airfix (or was it Kitmaster?) kit must have come out well over 50 years ago. My one is the Dapol re-run of the kit from the 1980s with a chassis from the now-defunct Harrow Model Shop. The W&M railbus from Heljan looks rather better.

Manchester Piccadilly was one of the stations that inspired the track plan as a means of having two companies meeting and having a smallish through station alongside a large terminus.

A few photos from today: When sorting through boxes of stock no longer in regular service, I found this railbus I built 25 years ago, so I gave it an outing. Here it is alongside a new Bachmann 108: P1060093as by Robert Carroll, on Flickr A Maunsell S&D set, with a POS in the sidings in the background: P1060095as by Robert Carroll, on Flickr I finally succumbed to a pull & push too - excellent model: P1060097as by Robert Carroll, on Flickr Busy scene at the station - a WD passes on iron ore hppers: P1060098as by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Hornby have not made any restaurant vehicles to go with their Maunsell stock. However, you can assemble plenty of accurate formations without such vehicles. Otherwise, recourse to kits will be necessary.