Black 5 Bear

27 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Yes, but, in the case of the Hornby Light and Heavy air-smoothed Pacifics, the newer MN has been designed for simpler, and therefore cheaper, assembly.

 

The latest Light Pacifics have had provision for DCC sound added by creating partial new tooling (particularly of the tender), making them even more complex to produce.  

 

Tooling costs are therefore not completely written down, whilst labour costs are greater. We also haven't seen any new MNs for a few years, so there isn't a current price for those with which to make direct comparisons. 

The attached is due for imminent release at an Hornby RRP of £217.99 :-Hornby UK
https://uk.Hornby.com › products
R3860 BR, Merchant Navy Class, 4-6-2, 35012 'United States Lines' - Era 4

3 hours ago, Downer said:

I would have thought a large part of the Caprotti loco’s appeal is its strikingly unusual head-on appearance, but I haven’t yet seen a single publicity shot taken from that angle. 

This is the only one I could find:-

1 hour ago, PeterStiles said:

Newer model, designed to be cheaper to build/produce, I heard somewhere, probably on a different thread on this site...

Yes, my thoughts exactly, however the Merchant Navy is superior in every way!

10 minutes ago, ColinB said:

I suppose the only thing you can say is that Hornby provides a datum for other companies, something to aim at and improve. When they do make a good model it is good, locos like the 9F, but even then their quality lets them down, as in the case of the one Sam got. The thing that gets me is the ridiculous pricing structure, many of their 20 plus year old designed models are more expensive than the retooled ones.

"The thing that gets me is the ridiculous pricing structure, many of their 20 plus year old designed models are more expensive than the retooled ones".

Absolutely!

A good example of this is the Airsmooth Merchant Navy and the early 2000 era Airsmooth Battle of Britain and West Country Class....

4 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

Pretty shocking . Clearly there is something wrong with the tender connection which is clearly demonstrated here . Not good enough Hornby . Come on your financial situation is precarious , you've really got to get this right !  Can't imagine the difficulties of sending something back from Antartica- but thats what happens when your customers are your Quality Control. Disgraceful ! 

Spot on post Russell.

Well said!

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Everything is limited to as many as they can sell.

 

Hornby has the best prior form for turning success into swamp matter by turning the taps on twice too soon if they think they have hit a winner.

 

If Caprotti sells out there will be plenty more where they came from, soon after.

 

 

 

 

I suspect the Caprotti variant with the higher running plate may well follow in the next run of models.

24 minutes ago, Buhar said:

Also, especially with Hornby, runs are so limited that if you return a model there's no guarantee a replacement will be available.

 

Alan 

Which somewhat concerns me with both the Caprotti and Steam/Sound variants.

2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Currently their 24 is an exceptional bargain .

Not to mention TMC's DCC ready 97201 Experiment in Derby Research Livery, currently on offer for £92.71+ P+P!

2 hours ago, ColinB said:

You won't need to, the Black 5 is probably the last of the retool designs, except the streamlined B12. Hornby are short of money so they are recycling their old designs, recent releases like the 4p and 8f are designs that are over 20 years old, but are a good cash cow. Well that is what their new management thinks. The Black 5 is part of Simon's legacy. The P2s, A4s and anything with an 8 wheel Gresley tender with have the new tender connection but it only uses 4 wires so is a bit more reliable.

The new release A4's in HD and main range have the same new "loco to tender" connection.

It may well be that the connectors fitted to the new Black 5's are substandard/defective?

This situation has happened before with Hornby, namely the motor defects in certain locos such as the second batch S15's!

2 hours ago, 7802 said:

I think the lamp on the top bracket looks even worse in white. At least on the black lamp the bit that plugs into the smoke box door blended in.

Overscale lamps aside, it really does look the part!

Looking forward to receiving my pre-order.

The Caprotti Black Five it seems is nearly with us according to Hornby on Facebook.

Very nice I must say!

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/nWo9zsNkdST2Fy3e/

1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said:

They also have similar clip together fitting on their new V2 in OO.

IMHO, the Bachmann close coupling clip is far superior to that of the Hornby offering and certainly more robust.

57 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

As it’s the only one currently on the market and I saw a sample on Saturday which does capture the essence of the prototype,my order will stand.I’ll take the risk and possible hit with the lamps and clip connector.

Thanks for the update Ian,my sentiments entirely!

I trust you're judgement and like yourself, will be keeping my pre-orders.

3 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Bachmann also have relatively recent research for their 2 mm model as well of course. And the 8F ……. 

Unfortunately Mike, I can't see that happening any time soon, that is unless they've been working on it for some time.

It may well be that the Hornby BR versions - Glasgow Highlander, the Caprotti and the S+S versions will be better finished.

The irony is that the new close coupling function doesn't improve the loco to tender gap, when you actually compare it with the outgoing model.

I think many people will now bemoan the passing of the devils plug! 

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I would like a Caprotti 5, but if it's got as many problems as these version seem to have, I'll be passing on the Hornby one. 

Of course there is the possibility that it prove OK - but I'll have missed out by the time we know.

Still currently available to order on the Hornby website. If It's not up to scratch or not what you want, return it.

A win win situation!

1 hour ago, classy52 said:

 

Hold the phone!...where from?

 

Edit: If you're referring to D9000 - BR Green w/cantrail (VXC) direct from Accurascale then that isn't modelled for current day, period is for 1997-1999 whilst with Virgin Cross Country.

TBH, on the second run, that's the closest you're going to get me thinks.

31 minutes ago, classy52 said:

Shame there are no current day Preserved Class 55's that are running on either heritage or mainline being done.

D9000, Royal Scots Grey in current preservation condition is being produced, one of which I have on pre-order.

1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said:

That would be the ideal scenario.However,as I have already posted elsewhere,my conversation with Hornby at the NEC yesterday leads me to believe that they appear to be in the hands of their factory…at least as far as the stuck on lights are concerned.So I’m not holding my breath as far as my pre ordered Caprotti is concerned. 
 

I saw it run yesterday and for me personally it fails as the “Ultimate Black 5” on the counts of both those silly fixed lights and the yawning gap between loco and tender 

Ian, if my pre-orders are not up to scratch, they'll be going back end of.

Purchasers need to send manufacturers a clear message and return expensive models, which are substandard or don't hit the mark!

14 minutes ago, Legend said:

I thought another pretty decent review even if the subject didn’t come out well .

 

So again, slightly warped running plate 

Crank pin falling out 

Similar issue on tender-loco pick up but this time resolved using contact cleaner ( is that a permanent fix?) 

 

You step back and then consider this is a £204 model . Really! 

What's the betting we'll seeing improvements on the highlighted concerns/issues  on both the steam/sound and Rails variants due for release later in the year?

10 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I'm reluctantly going to cancel my pre order for the Hornby model as I feel it is too compromised by gimmickry for the price asked.

 

The Black 5 is one of those iconic classes that the market can sustain more than one manufacturer of and with Hornby taking the mass market rtr segment the window is open for someone else going for the high end market. In the meantime I've enough Hornby Black 5 and Brassmaster parts 'in stock' to build up as many variants as I need. In time 'parts' from the new model will also filter in to the second hand market and if they do I might well find a use for them - my most recent new model Princess Coronation came to me this way  - £25 for the body, £75 for the chassis and tender. 

I don't blame you Mike.

Personally, I'll keep my two pre orders going with Hornby, as the Caprotti version isn't currently in the main range and the S+S version was secured for a very good price, which will be even better with spending a few points.

If I encounter any of the reported problems with these models, they will be returned for a replacement or refund.

57 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

That highlights just how overscale the Hornby lamps are. As I said a while ago, they'd look good on the Ellis Clarke Black 5!

Maybe an opportunity for some enterprising individual(s) from smaller suppliers to produce working replacement lamps?

At least we still have the option of their removal and the fitting of the lamp irons from the accessory pack.

The fit/finish on this loco does bode well for the BR versions, which by all accounts (S+S excepted) are imminent.

2 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Photos on the Rails site appear to be of the actual model now - https://railsofsheffield.com/products/Hornby-r30224-stanier-5mt-black-5-4-6-0-5200-lms-steam-locomotive

 

I saw the LMS version 5200 displayed in the glass cabinet at Model Junction in Bury St Edmunds last Saturday.

Despite the misgivings of many on here about the lamps, they actually look ok and don't overly detract from the overall look of the model.

Maybe this is due to the them being black rather than white on the BR versions?

Hopefully, the spare lamp irons as promised by Hornby will be included with these locos.

IMHO, this model is a major step up from the previous incarnation.

Looking forward to receiving my pre-ordered Caprotti and Steam/Sound versions whenever they may arrive.

5 hours ago, Adi said:

I believe some are in at Hornby

R30224, the LMS version 5200 is shown as in stock.

4 hours ago, RailwayModeller927 said:

You aren't the only one, my payment was due on the 23rd as well.

 

Thankfully I was able to pay for it about a week beforehand.

 

I do have a nagging feeling however that it's going to end up being delayed if I'm honest.

I think Fran and Mc C both mentioned in previous posts that no money is required to be paid until the pre ordered items are in stock....