ruggedpeak

Not entirely accurate to say the cruise ship hordes don't spend much money or arrive not hungry. Cruise ship spend varies enormously according to the port. Escaping the ship and its food and drink can be a priority for passengers. The Norwegians claim they don't spend much as no one gets off at Bergen, but then no one goes on a fjords cruise to look at Bergen, it is for the on-ship experience of being in the fjords. However try and find a taxi or restaurant table in Funchal, Madeira when a cruise liner arrives, or get on any of the well known attractions and you will have your work cut out. The entire city changes its dynamic when the cruise ship approaches. According to WCR the Jacobite brings £20m to the economy, whilst cruise passengers contribute £40m+ across Scotland according to Visit Scotland: "Visitor spend 2.9 It is estimated that £40.6 million was spent directly onshore by cruise passengers and crew in Scotland in 2019, representing 0.4% of all (overnight and day) tourism spend in Scotland. This, however, is a conservative estimate and does not include indirect and induced effects or some spend on tours booked through the cruise operator that is retained in Scotland. In addition, the contribution of cruise spend as a proportion of the local tourism economy varies significantly from port to port and their hinterlands and is estimated to be 2.54% of all tourism volume and 1.50% of expenditure in the Highlands region.4 Spend is focused in parts of the Highlands and Islands and the Central Belt. The five marquee ports accounted for £9 in every £10 spent by cruise passengers and crew in 2019." https://www.visitscotland.org/binaries/content/assets/dot-org/pdf/research-insights/cruise-tourism-in-scotland.pdf So cruise passengers do spend money and contribute. All of which begs the question, if the train is so important to the Highlands and WCR reportedly care so much, why on earth would they waste money on expensive lawyers to engage in a futile and counter-productive JR rather than do the work required by law and just get on with running trains?

After a protracted period of not progressing this, I have managed to get track laid on 3 shelves to create modules. I have a 4th shelf and that will just have straight double track. On a flat surface (our parquet floor turns out not to be flat but slightly wavy!) the align well. They provide a robust 'baseboard and can be stacked. They are piled up on the top of a tall bookcase out of the way when not in use. The track layout is for entertaining an 8 year old rather than prototypical accuracy! The double crossovers reflect the fact I got a retail pack of 10 Hornby crossovers on the Swiss version of Ebay for next to nothing so have used a couple! The top two boards also work well as standalone layouts. They are definitely something (assuming no protruding scenic detail etc) that can be picked up and moved around, stacked etc without risk of damage. So a good basis for a small layout. Next activity is to find a robust and reliable way of joining them together so they can be connected up quickly and easily. Given the end profile this does not seem straighforward if structural strength is required, especially as my trips to DIY stores here has not yielded the same selection of hinges and other potential connectors as B&Q et al in the UK. Cannot find flat hinges for love nor money....All ideas welcome. Electrical connections will probably just be banana plugs on wires through the base as there is no space at surface level for connections due to the tight clearances between trains and the side walls.

I flew in from Switzerland for the 2023 show, was always a great place to meet former colleagues who shared an interest in trains. Thanks to all the organisers and exhibitors over the years. Despite the less than great news this week there is plenty to be positive about in the hobby and Warley won't be forgotten.

Nice. Has the potential to be an epic model.

Same rules as in any consumer situation, book using a credit card for protection in case it goes wrong. Unless WCR are trading whilst insolvent or it is provable they can't deliver the service (unlikely as there is CDL stock around) then there is nothing wrong with this legally. At present there is no evidence to suggest either situation is the case, so they can take bookings. Barring any more unforeseen cock ups or starting more fights with regulators then the Jacobite will probably run.

Tin foil hat time. Last time I checked you are not a mod and it is not for you to decide what is posted on here. If there is anything factually or technically incorrect or demonstrably biased in my posts then do feel free to highlight it or challenge it based upon your railway, safety or management expertise. I have educated if you had read my posts and thought about them. For example I mention the weak court case, and question how that went forward given it was so weak, and that that decision has led to the situation being considerably worse for WCR than it needed to be. That is management education, based upon learnings from serious corporate failings like Boeing, BP etc. Again had you read my posts you would have seen it. Had you bothered to do even the most basic research before posting it would be pretty clear that I am not working for the ORR. I will let you figure that out for yourself. And so what if people do dislike WCR, given the circumstances that is entirely understandable. Personally I'd question the ethical standards of anyone who thinks this is an appropriate way to conduct business. Unlike many people I am not prepared to remain silent when I see people being put at risk through poor judgement, poor attitudes to safety, arrogance, incompetence or whatever. That is exactly why we had Grenfell, the Post Office horizon issue, tainted blood etc. I will comment on it as I see fit until those who have the right to stop me do so (i.e. in this case the RMWeb Mods), so feel free to report my posts. And yes, it is a model railway forum but you may not have noticed this is the section about the real world railway. If it is a problem for you why are you commenting here?

Won't start another thread but some freight news via Linkedin (Vincent Ducrot is SBB CEO and worth following on LinkedIn if you like the technical details): my bold... https://www.linkedin.com/posts/muhm-alexander_sbbcffffs-schienengaesterverkehr-logistik-activity-7151506456356290561-zAi9/ "Let's get down to business: On 10 January 2024, the Federal Council adopted the dispatch on the total revision of the Freight Transport Act. Now it's up to us: the modernisation of single wagonload transport (EWLV) is central to ensuring Switzerland's security of supply. At the same time, we continue to focus on the development and introduction of digital automatic coupling (DAC) together with Europe in order to make rail freight transport safer, faster and more economical. Together with our employees, partners and customers, we will make rail freight transport competitive, sustainable and innovative."

The trigger was the court ruling, which made it very plain what the situtation was. I don't think reference to "ORR just stamping its authority" is appropriate in the circumstances or in relation to a safety regulator dealing with a company with an less than ideal safety culture. If ORR were to allow the exemption now after the judgement and someone got hurt, it would be the ORR in the dock explaining how they allowed WCR to operate witout CDL. after such a clear cut judgement from a High Court Judge. The risk assessment process around this seems very clear. And then there is the media pile in when the WCR back catalogue of not seeing eye to eye with authorities and near misses and incidents comes to light. This is offensive and ridiculous. No one is projecting hate, they are expressing their concern and opinion of a company that has not put safety at the forefront of its operation as is demonstrable by ongoing safety failings and failed legal disputes with safety authorities, as well as their attitude to those who have more expertise than they do. Why is Plan B our concern, it is not ours or yours? If they have one then it should involve improving their inadequate safety performance, culture and attitude. If not then like all outfits who think the law does not apply to they should cease operating. I have little concern for the fate of WCR, I have a lot of concern for their customers and third parties who might be put at risk. The JR case put forward was so weak I am struggling to understand how it went ahead, the Judge even had to explain to WCR that saying random unevidenced stuff in the court room leads to it being ignored. Think about Wootton incident, 30 seconds or so was the difference between a SPAD and a mass casualty/fatality incident with an HST going through a loaded set of Mk1 carriages. Then look at WCR's response to that. Let's stop pretending WCR are the victims here, the Graun website is a better place for faux victimhood. WCR made all these decisions themselves. They had choices and made the wrong ones.

But if we believe what was said in court, certainly for the Jacobite, it is so profitable putting in CDL is entirely possible. It could also help fund other stock upgrades. I'd have thought the smart solution would have been to bend over backwards to demonstrate compliance on the profitable and high profile Jacobite services to get in ORR's good books to negotiate flexibility on exemptions on other stock. They seem to have decided to play Russian roulette with a large chunk of the business and lost. Their track (!) record of engagement with regulators on safety issues is not ideal (and this is now a big juicy media story waiting to break if/when someone gets hurt along with the usual "who the hell let this happen" media outrage), and it is now coming back to haunt them with added karma. But may be the JR was the last roll of the dice for them. We shall see.

Yes. I think we have to be fair and realise many of us on this forum grew up and lived with with slam door stock and manual doors. My own now adult children lived and grew up in East Anglia and never travelled on a Norwich bound mk3 with proper doors(!), so have only ever experienced MU trains with push button operated doors or automatic doors on the Tube, other than a few heritage rail trips. They grew up in a world where operating things, even down to lights and cookers is more likely to be a touch screen or soft button as anything mechanical. It is unfair of those who criticise the younger generation for not understanding a world they have not lived in. Do we criticise them for not climbing to the top of tall chimneys with just a ladder and demolishing them by knocking a hole in them and starting a fire a la Fred Dibnah? CDL's is catching up with that reality in society.

Due to the general ineptitude, cronyism, corruption and stupidty of the UK legal and regulatory systems shutting down outfits like this is difficult. In properly run countries they would already be off the railways. They should have been banned permanently after their response to Wootton IMHO.

Yes, WCR are just playing the victim card to try and distract from their own deliberate actions and failings. If the local economy or WCR staff suffer it is a direct result of the decisions of WCR's management, no one else. However it requires a certain degree of maturity, intellect and professionalism to understand this.

Anyone with the most basic competence in safety management could see this coming many miles off. They had an exemption but to have an exemption you need a proper plan in place, play by the rules and not have any incidents. In a superb example of their genius at safety managemet they decided to fight it and go to Judicial Review with a weak case and managed to prove to the court beyond reasonable doubt that they had failed on all 3 points. That gave the ORR all the ammo it needed to take whatever action it deems necessary. It is not ORR's decision that WCR can't manage non-CDL stock, it is now a Judge's ruling. It takes a special sort of genius to take a less than ideal position and turn it into a slam dunk disaster.

Yes, if there was no alternative strategy or route to profitability they would just burn through the reserves and value in the company until it actually went bust. There is clearly some great stuff within the business but it was not working financially as a whole. There will undoubtedly be discussions behind closed doors and we will see parts re-emerge in due course.

Seen this in Rail mag, says WCRC will have to fit CDL on its coaches by Feb 29 or cease mainline operations. Not just Jacobite. Is this news or have I been a bit slow? https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/2024/01/09/west-coast-railways-handed-ultimatum-after-judicial-review For info, here's WCRC's barristers, they were instructed by the lawyers in the case DLA Piper, who in turn will presumably have acted on the instructions of their client. https://www.11kbw.com/knowledge-events/article/tom-cross-and-raphael-hogarth-act-for-hogwarts-express-train-company-in-judicial-review-of-regulator/ This comment made me laugh "The judgment will be of interest to practitioners advising commercial entities on challenges to regulatory decisions." Not really, it was such a weak case it was always going to lose, only a matter of how badly. The fact that the court felt it necessary in its judgement to explain basic legal procedure on things like evidence it to a multi-million pound company and its lawyers is not a good outcome for them.

If possible can we avoid this thread becoming about things that are are nothing to do with Hattons closing. Thanks 🙂

Of course it might have been taken by aliens, sold to Elon Musk, or bought by the Russians to convert DCC chips into guidance for homemade drones. However I'm going with fast fingered bargain hunters for now.

I was getting ready to go to my French class when I saw the news earlier this evening and there was loads of stuff available. Now most of it has gone including the Hornby Loram 08 I was after for £120. I think they sold it all once the news was out.

This news stopped me in my tracks. As always in these situations the back story will be more complex than we think, but losing a major player in the hobby is a shock. I commend the directors for an exit that would appear to leave no one out of pocket. I feel for the staff. I buy via mail order from many retailers and Hattons were always super efficient and never had a problem with them. They gave us their 66 and RHTT models as well as many others. I got rare secondhand items by registering my email in case something came in and reacting quickly when the email arrived out of the blue. I hope all their staff find other positions quickly. I would suggest predictions of the end of the hobby and a tsunami of shop closures are somewhat over-egging the situation. Companies close for all sorts of reasons and it does not necessarily mean the end of the modelling world as we know it.

The cruise missile convoys were not secret. Every few weeks a huge convoy of them and their support vehicles would drive out of the base to a remote location to practice their drills for WW3, which was deploying the missiles to remote sites to avoid being hit in the event of a Soviet nuclear first strike, as part of the nuclear deterrent. They wanted publicity for them so that everyone knew NATO could throw some nukes back no matter what. The Greenham ladies were very effective on the publicity front..... I went to school in Berkshire back then and one of my class mates was American and his Dad drove them for the USAF. Apparently driving these down the narrow country lanes of Berkshire was entertaining!

Their responses to the various actions and decisions following Wootton are on record so this is perhaps no surprise and does appear to be consistent with their corporate approach. What is interesting is the suggestion that they are taking bookings for something that they appear to have told the court they couldn't deliver.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12918727/footbridge-middletons-railway-station-takes-10-years-build.html Another good example is the Lower Thames Crossing, which has apparently cost £800m so far despite no building work. Nearly £300m of that on planning consent. HS2 is just another typically run UK infrastructure project.

Hornby New Year sale has East Coast and Rail Adventure HST power car sets at £217.79 each, TfW Class 67 at £116.39 and half price resin buildings https://uk.Hornby.com/catalogue/new-year-sale

Apologies if its in the report, but did he stumble against the handle? Or just decide that he wanted to get off and operated the handle? Plenty of examples of very drunk people trying to open aircraft doors mid-flight, which are definitely not something you can stumble against or accidentally knock open.