ruggedpeak

The trigger was the court ruling, which made it very plain what the situtation was. I don't think reference to "ORR just stamping its authority" is appropriate in the circumstances or in relation to a safety regulator dealing with a company with an less than ideal safety culture. If ORR were to allow the exemption now after the judgement and someone got hurt, it would be the ORR in the dock explaining how they allowed WCR to operate witout CDL. after such a clear cut judgement from a High Court Judge. The risk assessment process around this seems very clear. And then there is the media pile in when the WCR back catalogue of not seeing eye to eye with authorities and near misses and incidents comes to light. This is offensive and ridiculous. No one is projecting hate, they are expressing their concern and opinion of a company that has not put safety at the forefront of its operation as is demonstrable by ongoing safety failings and failed legal disputes with safety authorities, as well as their attitude to those who have more expertise than they do. Why is Plan B our concern, it is not ours or yours? If they have one then it should involve improving their inadequate safety performance, culture and attitude. If not then like all outfits who think the law does not apply to they should cease operating. I have little concern for the fate of WCR, I have a lot of concern for their customers and third parties who might be put at risk. The JR case put forward was so weak I am struggling to understand how it went ahead, the Judge even had to explain to WCR that saying random unevidenced stuff in the court room leads to it being ignored. Think about Wootton incident, 30 seconds or so was the difference between a SPAD and a mass casualty/fatality incident with an HST going through a loaded set of Mk1 carriages. Then look at WCR's response to that. Let's stop pretending WCR are the victims here, the Graun website is a better place for faux victimhood. WCR made all these decisions themselves. They had choices and made the wrong ones.

But if we believe what was said in court, certainly for the Jacobite, it is so profitable putting in CDL is entirely possible. It could also help fund other stock upgrades. I'd have thought the smart solution would have been to bend over backwards to demonstrate compliance on the profitable and high profile Jacobite services to get in ORR's good books to negotiate flexibility on exemptions on other stock. They seem to have decided to play Russian roulette with a large chunk of the business and lost. Their track (!) record of engagement with regulators on safety issues is not ideal (and this is now a big juicy media story waiting to break if/when someone gets hurt along with the usual "who the hell let this happen" media outrage), and it is now coming back to haunt them with added karma. But may be the JR was the last roll of the dice for them. We shall see.

Yes. I think we have to be fair and realise many of us on this forum grew up and lived with with slam door stock and manual doors. My own now adult children lived and grew up in East Anglia and never travelled on a Norwich bound mk3 with proper doors(!), so have only ever experienced MU trains with push button operated doors or automatic doors on the Tube, other than a few heritage rail trips. They grew up in a world where operating things, even down to lights and cookers is more likely to be a touch screen or soft button as anything mechanical. It is unfair of those who criticise the younger generation for not understanding a world they have not lived in. Do we criticise them for not climbing to the top of tall chimneys with just a ladder and demolishing them by knocking a hole in them and starting a fire a la Fred Dibnah? CDL's is catching up with that reality in society.

Due to the general ineptitude, cronyism, corruption and stupidty of the UK legal and regulatory systems shutting down outfits like this is difficult. In properly run countries they would already be off the railways. They should have been banned permanently after their response to Wootton IMHO.

Yes, WCR are just playing the victim card to try and distract from their own deliberate actions and failings. If the local economy or WCR staff suffer it is a direct result of the decisions of WCR's management, no one else. However it requires a certain degree of maturity, intellect and professionalism to understand this.

Anyone with the most basic competence in safety management could see this coming many miles off. They had an exemption but to have an exemption you need a proper plan in place, play by the rules and not have any incidents. In a superb example of their genius at safety managemet they decided to fight it and go to Judicial Review with a weak case and managed to prove to the court beyond reasonable doubt that they had failed on all 3 points. That gave the ORR all the ammo it needed to take whatever action it deems necessary. It is not ORR's decision that WCR can't manage non-CDL stock, it is now a Judge's ruling. It takes a special sort of genius to take a less than ideal position and turn it into a slam dunk disaster.

Yes, if there was no alternative strategy or route to profitability they would just burn through the reserves and value in the company until it actually went bust. There is clearly some great stuff within the business but it was not working financially as a whole. There will undoubtedly be discussions behind closed doors and we will see parts re-emerge in due course.

Seen this in Rail mag, says WCRC will have to fit CDL on its coaches by Feb 29 or cease mainline operations. Not just Jacobite. Is this news or have I been a bit slow? https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/2024/01/09/west-coast-railways-handed-ultimatum-after-judicial-review For info, here's WCRC's barristers, they were instructed by the lawyers in the case DLA Piper, who in turn will presumably have acted on the instructions of their client. https://www.11kbw.com/knowledge-events/article/tom-cross-and-raphael-hogarth-act-for-hogwarts-express-train-company-in-judicial-review-of-regulator/ This comment made me laugh "The judgment will be of interest to practitioners advising commercial entities on challenges to regulatory decisions." Not really, it was such a weak case it was always going to lose, only a matter of how badly. The fact that the court felt it necessary in its judgement to explain basic legal procedure on things like evidence it to a multi-million pound company and its lawyers is not a good outcome for them.

If possible can we avoid this thread becoming about things that are are nothing to do with Hattons closing. Thanks 🙂

Of course it might have been taken by aliens, sold to Elon Musk, or bought by the Russians to convert DCC chips into guidance for homemade drones. However I'm going with fast fingered bargain hunters for now.

I was getting ready to go to my French class when I saw the news earlier this evening and there was loads of stuff available. Now most of it has gone including the Hornby Loram 08 I was after for £120. I think they sold it all once the news was out.

This news stopped me in my tracks. As always in these situations the back story will be more complex than we think, but losing a major player in the hobby is a shock. I commend the directors for an exit that would appear to leave no one out of pocket. I feel for the staff. I buy via mail order from many retailers and Hattons were always super efficient and never had a problem with them. They gave us their 66 and RHTT models as well as many others. I got rare secondhand items by registering my email in case something came in and reacting quickly when the email arrived out of the blue. I hope all their staff find other positions quickly. I would suggest predictions of the end of the hobby and a tsunami of shop closures are somewhat over-egging the situation. Companies close for all sorts of reasons and it does not necessarily mean the end of the modelling world as we know it.

The cruise missile convoys were not secret. Every few weeks a huge convoy of them and their support vehicles would drive out of the base to a remote location to practice their drills for WW3, which was deploying the missiles to remote sites to avoid being hit in the event of a Soviet nuclear first strike, as part of the nuclear deterrent. They wanted publicity for them so that everyone knew NATO could throw some nukes back no matter what. The Greenham ladies were very effective on the publicity front..... I went to school in Berkshire back then and one of my class mates was American and his Dad drove them for the USAF. Apparently driving these down the narrow country lanes of Berkshire was entertaining!

Their responses to the various actions and decisions following Wootton are on record so this is perhaps no surprise and does appear to be consistent with their corporate approach. What is interesting is the suggestion that they are taking bookings for something that they appear to have told the court they couldn't deliver.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12918727/footbridge-middletons-railway-station-takes-10-years-build.html Another good example is the Lower Thames Crossing, which has apparently cost £800m so far despite no building work. Nearly £300m of that on planning consent. HS2 is just another typically run UK infrastructure project.

Hornby New Year sale has East Coast and Rail Adventure HST power car sets at £217.79 each, TfW Class 67 at £116.39 and half price resin buildings https://uk.Hornby.com/catalogue/new-year-sale

Apologies if its in the report, but did he stumble against the handle? Or just decide that he wanted to get off and operated the handle? Plenty of examples of very drunk people trying to open aircraft doors mid-flight, which are definitely not something you can stumble against or accidentally knock open.

I don't agree that conclusions can be drawn given the dramatically different incidents and dynamics, particularly at Carmont. Pendo's should in theory be safer than HST's as a more modern design, but unless or until someone crashes one into a landslide that then flings coaches off the side of a bridge down a short almost vertical drop with a sudden stop that swings coaches around we won't know for sure. As for 8xx's, I can only hope they are not involved in a big 'off' as I think the outcome will be horrific, but I may be catastrophising.

FTFY.

No win no fee are for usually clear cut cases, mostly involving consumers and are backed by insurers who assess the case. Mostly they involve large, deep pocketed outfits like the NHS or other public bodies and companies where there is some likelihood of winning by default or other technicality, or they will pay out to avoid adverse publicity etc. I'd be surprised if no win no fee lawyers and the insurers who underwrite the fees would get involved in supporting a well funded business fighting safety regulatory authorities over a matter like this.

The same people will fit tooth and nail and more to keep their right to own guns despite clear evidence that the US populace as a whole is too unfit to be allowed any access to firearms without killing each other at a rate far higher than most other civilised nations on the planet. People who can quote sports stats but refuse to accept that an angry and divided society, built on a short history of violence and conquest, awash with guns is a bad thing are probably not the sharpest tools in the box. Individual Americans are not stupid, but as a cohort they are not the brightest people on earth. Being smart at one thing doesn't preclude you being a total imbecile in other areas of life. As for WCRC, if there is a serious injury incident or fatality, they may not be able to rely on any goodwill or benefit of the doubt from safety authorities. Their management appear not to have learnt the lessons of BP and the Gulf of Mexico. Payback, karma or whatever, if there is a serious incident there are a lot of people/outfits waiting to make sure WCRC and its directors pay their dues. Not a smart position to be in.

Thanks for posting, this was a really uplifting and interesting article. I'd be interested in any thoughts on the controls. Whilst setting up a simple layout is straightforward, the Raspberry Pi based control system may be off putting for techno Luddites like myself. I wonder if there are alternatives like variations based upon proprietary shuttle systems? Electronics is not my thing, but it should be possible to outline how to replicate this for others in a straightforward manner without programming a Pi?

A really interesting photo, Jim. Not just a grey shed on a grey day (!) but a brand new building with two legacy locos outside and an old burnt out shed from the site's previous life. One of those scenes that would not look realistic if it was on a layout!

Because everyone involved gets paid more/makes more profit by doing everything bespoke.