Natalie

Which shade though? Very important in Southern circles... (lights touch paper and beats a hasty retreat. ..)

Hi Mick A worthy and potentially complicated subject indeed! A good start would be to maybe get your hands on the 'standard' books on Southern Coaches such as the David Gould books for Oakwood or Mike King's for OPC, Crecy and KRB as there is a lot of info within including on repainting. I will sort a list out if you haven't got any of them. An excellent website is bloodandcustard which you should find much of interest. One of the subsections covers Southern coaching stock which is being detailed with a lot of info from Glen Woods- who is also prominent on SReMG and SRLHCS- both on groups.io Of potential interest are the following which detail the SR's repaint of Mk1 set from Crimson Lake and Cream to Southern Region Coach Green No 11. These have been copied from the records of Lancing Works. Glen has also compiled a book called 'Lancing 1956' which lists all the activities during that year at Lancing Works. This is purely text listing with no illustrations. There are some still available from the Bluebell Railway Museum Shop if of interest. I can supply a sample page shot to show you the format if required. Mk1 3-car sets CLC to G livery change (British Rail Southern Region): https://www.bloodandcustard.com/SR-CoachingSets-BR-ThreeSetsLiveries01.html Mk1 4-Cor sets CLC to G livery change (British Rail Southern Region): https://www.bloodandcustard.com/SR-CoachingSets-BR-FourSetsLiveries01.html Mk1 4-Cor Sets (British Rail Southern Region): https://www.bloodandcustard.com/SR-CoachingSets-BR-FourSets.html This is essentially the info on the Mk1 4Cor sets that was contained in the yearly SR Appendix to the Carriage Working Notice which details their formations and were they were allocated to work. Bloodandcustard also has some pre-grouping and Southern set formations as well as the excellent histories/profiles of a lot of the Southern Electric units. Don't forget the legendary 'varnishing' of the Southern which ensured some stock remained in unbranded Southern Railway liveries until well into the 1950s. Have fun!

Quite an interesting issue with a number of interesting subjects. Found something strangely appealing/ inspiring about the muddy field with cows... The scenes with modelling water and drainage pipes I also enjoyed, not normally my type of thing, but definitely in this case so well done to the author and photographer (and whoever laid out the page too) for catching my attention. Class 01 article interesting too. Need to reread it again as I was getting cross eyed over the D2956/ D2965 issue. I am not sure if the proof reader had the same issue but I wouldn't be surprised. All I can say is that thank god it wasn't me. Which was the intended number btw? Nice to see something about the class- never saw any of them and they were almost mythical in status..

Hi Colin Being the sub editor and proof reader of UPDate, I was in the position of getting an early preview of your article. I found nothing intrinsically wrong with at all and it read very nicely indeed. Such was that I needed to do very little alteration/corrections and they were of a time sensitive nature caused by the blasted virus cancelling your forthcoming appearances, so it seemed pointless to leave them in. It was a very interesting read on the logistics and otherwise of taking a layout to a show and all that it entailed. I echo Kelly's sentiments in thanking you for submitting something so quickly that was 'a bit different' subject wise and also well written. Please feel free to submit more material, especially if you model in 7mm scale as we as a magazine are very much under represented in that size. Thanks again for your article and I hope that we presented it to your liking. (The change of title/ adding of a subtitle was me so feel free to blame Kelly (D827 here).

Hi Sorry for the delay. Time to clarify and correct the confusion caused by my inability to type numbers correctly... E5625 was apparently fitted with BT5 bogies for a time (Harris- "early 1972") as part of the development of the Mk3 stock. E5962 should have been M5970 which was converted into the prototype APT catering equipment vehicle and was later renumbered as M1800 and reclassed as RSS Restaurant Self Service. This was a more involved 'four-module' conversion. According to Harris in Mk2 Coaches there was another APT catering conversion carried out on another Mk2f TSO (it was this one that was M5962). Described by Harris as a 'galley conversion' it had 2 bays of seating replaced by a kitchen area which included an air circulation oven, a bread toaster and 2 fridges. It began public trials during October 1974 on the 1015 King's Cross- Leeds and a return. It later joined the then still-numbered M5970 on the West Coast after March 1975. Both are reported as retaining their original numbers at this time and TSO classification but had full length red cantrail bands. M5962 the galley car was restored to an open second during 1976 whilst M5970 was redesignated as RSS No M1800. I have never seen pics of any of the three vehicles mentioned so modified. The only RSS ones in BR use are the pair at Glasgow Central on Eastbank MRC's site. Also never seen are pics of the prototype Mk3 vehicles during their trial use in scheduled LH services on the East Coast (or the West Coast for that matter..) All in all not really very relevant to your excellent modelling but updated for completeness. Looking forward to seeing more of your excellent work.

Hi Martin Enjoying your work. Any chance of E5625 joining your fleet (or indeed E5962)...?

Hmm probably says more about me but I never read the last word as 'wellies'... Interesting thread. I often wonder if I would have preferred to have lived then (well I did for the last 3 years of the 1960s) but then again I don't think I would have. Now if I could pick and choose which elements that would be another thing...

Hi again Just thought that I would share a couple of pics of our dogs taken today. This is Minnie who is a 5 year old Black Patterdale. She is really energetic and has a tendency to overheat, which one time resulted in her fitting and then having a respiratory arrest which I had to resuscitate her from. Seems like I got things right! That is what your taxpayer money funded when I did my nurse training..... This is Bracken taken about 10 mins ago- dozing next to me. She is an 11 year old Staffie/Ridgeback cross and was a rescue dog at 6 months old. She was rescued from the same place where Kelly's Poppy also was from. Bracken is newly diabetic and on bd insulin which she has adjusted to really well. She has also developed cataracts recently too which although they do affect her sight haven't stopped her from doing the things she likes. She can still fast run and jump up onto beds... She is a really special contraption indeed (as of course is Minnie too). Apologies for the orientation of the pic, I took it directly from the camera and don't know how to rotate it. Sorry. Hope that they pass muster!

Hi Hope all are well. Am feeling good at present and seem to have the black dog back under control... The kind comments received did help and were very much appreciated. Regarding accents I don't think that I have one but on the odd occasion I have been told that I have a Birmingham accent- usually by someone from the south east. I was born in Coventry and have lived within 10 miles of there my whole life... My mum was born and lived in East Ham/Manor Park (Stanley Road) but never had a London accent apart from the way she pronounced some words. Her Aunty who lived with her to me had a mild London accent but was very well spoken (some in the family defined this as 'posh'). Think of Vera Lynn whom she resembled both physically and orally. Similar ages too. My mum's mum spoke a bit more like a Londoner even though she hadn't lived in London for over 60 years. Her pronunciation of certain words like toilet and chocolate as toilit and chocolit remained with her to the end. After moving around via Skelmersdale, Long Eaton and Hook she ended up in Penzance in the 1980s with her husband (but hated the place and when she got divorced came to the Midlands near to us) but it had no effect on her accent that I could tell. Conversely her daughter, my Aunty who is the same age as me, grew up mostly in Penzance and seemed to have picked up a Cornish element. When I first met Kelly in 1999 to me she had a really broad South London accent but since she has been in the Midlands since either it has tailed off or I just don't notice it. My male parental figure's father was originally from the Rhondda Valley (Penrhiwceiber/ Mountain Ash) but moved from there to Coventry in the 1930s where he lived for the rest of his life. He never lost his beautiful Welsh accent. I think I get a lot of my social justice and solidarity values from him. Little Black Dog Minnie the Patterdale has an ear infection which is requiring antibiotic/ steroidal drops bd. She is only 10kg so you wouldn't envisage many problems administering them.. How much can a small dog resist?.....

I think the above may be the relevant thread that you refer to. I just point out that none of the dates listed are my own work? They were kindly sent to me by John Atkinson who is one of the writers on the excellent bloodandcustard site which is highly recommended if you are interested in the units shown here- and why wouldn't you be! As yet the CIGs and BIGs have not been covered on the site but are 'in preparation.'

Hi Andy Thanks for your reply and explanation but I have only a rudimentary idea of what you have posted-I shall get Kelly to translate for me. What I do get is that it was not an active decision on anyone's part (I know I am a gobby opinionated cow but I do deliberately avoid posting anything contentious or controversial) which is what completely baffled me as I know that you do tend to warn people first. It just didn't help that my mental health has plummeted big time. But I do accept that there was nothing malicious or deliberate about it and apologise if I have suggested it was so or offended you. I do feel a lot better at the moment which helps see things a lot clearer. This mental health issue is a blight on my life that I wish I could get rid of. It stops me from enjoying the things that I do love like Coaches, wagons, Signalling and rockabilly. I wish it would just knaff off and leave me alone . Once again my apologies.

Hi Just a quick post. I have had a not very good evening as a result of when going to catch up with ER at 1645 to be confronted with an rmweb page displaying a large padlock graphic with the branding underneath of "Banned. You do not have permission to view this site." This completely floored me and send my mental health plummeting back down to earth again causing me once again to have suicidal thoughts (such as the minimum amount of dog insulin needed for a fatal dose for me). I have had no explanation of what I have done that has caused such an extreme action with no prior warning or explanation. My access seemed to return about 2330. I have been removing reactions to any post in the last week or so but without knowing what I am supposed to have done it is very difficult to comprehend the action. What really bothers me and increases my anxiety levels is that I have not been informed of what had happened or why. I am now very reluctant to post anything else or react to any post so this will be my last until I change my mind. I shall merely read the posts and only respond if necessary via pm. Hope that everyone else is ok and that Ben feels better with his paw.

Hi, Can't say that I am in a good place atm but at least ER was a place of relative decency and indeed sanctuary from the general nastiness of society. I don't feel that currently it is a place where I want to post any personal thoughts or feelings any more. I have taken the unprecedented step for me of blocking a poster in here as I really don't want to read anymore of their posts some of which I feel are quite nasty and actually disgust me. Sorry but that is how I feel and the best way for me to respond. I have the issue so have dealt with it the way that works for me.

That is Justin Daish who started off on the Shadows forums sending in videos of him playing to backing tracks. As he has got older he seems to have morphed into Hank Martin and is very well regarded on the Shadows scene. He played lead in a group 'The Shadowers'. He is more Hank than Hank is nowadays it seems and is a very talented guitarist. The clip above is not from Shadowmania but there are clips of him playing with his group and guesting with others at those events. I attended every Shadowmania and really miss them. A lot of the groups were semi-professional but all really, really good. Coupled with a great sound in the venue (Lakeside Country Club Frimley Green) it gave me the chance to hear the Shadows' music played live and to a high standard, something I wasn't around for in the 1960s. It has given me the chance to meet some of my 'heroes'. The only Shadows not to appear were (not including Ian Samwell (RIP) and Terry Smart were Hank himself, John Rostill ((RIP), John Farrar and Tony Meehan- although hevhad veen in the audience. There is a lot of of YouTube footage of Shadow mania featuring the likes of the Rapiers, Bruce Welch's Moonlight Shadows amongst others. It was nice to see the Shads on national television and not being mocked. There is a tale of Mark Knopfler appearing on Parkinson who kept trying to dismiss the Shads and Hank but Mr Knopfler was having none of it. There were two previously unseen bits of film from 1957 with Bruce playing a Gretsch/Gibson (sorry not sure which) and Hank with his unloved Antoria which was used pre Strat. Was mildly amused at the references to Hank and Bruce being founder members as Move It was played underneath.. Technically I spose they were founder members of the Shadows but that is only because they had changed the group's name from The Drifters. Founder members were Cliff, Norman Mitcham, Ken Pavey and Ian 'Sammy' Samwell on guitars with Terry Smart on drums. When it came to Move It only Cliff, Ian Samwell (who played rhythm) and Terry Smart were on it aided by Ernie Shear (a session guitarist) on lead and Frank Clark (another sessionist) on upright bass. Overall though I think the film was very good although maybe mentioning how Hank came to adopt the echo unit unit would have been included. This was from Joe Brown, the ex-Plaistow fireman who was a session guitarist and played lead for Billy Fury on the sublime 10' "Sound of Fury" which was self written before the Beatles apparently invented such a thing... The Shads- particularly Hank and Bruce were also prolific song writers but this wasn't touched on. They contributed most of the numbers for Cliff's 'Me and My Shadows' LP in 1960 again before the Beatles 'invented' such a thing as the BBC seem so keen to point out. Looking forward to hearing something Shadows-like on that magnificent guitar Andrew- played through an echo unit and Vox AC30 amp (there is a good doc on Vox-from Dartford- on YouTube.). Thanks for sharing.

Afternoon all For the record I really do know who the Beatles are! My tastes musically veer more to their influences of the likes of Elvis, Gene Vincent and Jerry Lee. Rockabilly is my love, the obscure the better. People such as Glen Glenn, Benny Joy, Warren Smith, Sonny Burgess etc. I also like a bit of bluegrass and proper country such as The Louvin Brothers, Flatt and Scruggs and Hank Williams. Currently listening to Johnny Horton who was known as "The Singing Fisherman". Maybe not well known but is one of my favourites. He has a great voice and superb guitar backing from the likes of Hank 'Sugarfoot' Garland and Grady Martin. Bizarrely I also like Steps, Incubus Succubus (thanks Kelly D827!), Enya and uellian pipes (played by a gent called Davey whose surname I can't recall)- where that came from I have no idea, but I can't help what I like. The availability of all this great music (to me anyway) is actually the thing that has stopped me going over the edge at present. The social isolation I can cope with- I have practiced it since about 1981), I am naturally antisocial and prefer to be on my own. It is the fact that you cannot put the radio or tele on without the blasted virus being mentioned- that sends my anxiety levels raising to stratospheric levels. It is not the actual virus or concern at getting it (I might have had it already) as there is nothing that I can do about that. No, it the sensationalist reporting in the media that is getting to me. It may be avoidance but it is what works for me Music is my haven at present- I think ChrisF may have some thoughts in this direction. I read everyday and like to catch up with the likes of Ben the (insert activity) Collie , Polly, the Hill of Strawberries, Fraggle Rock and the Boring Borough. You are all helping in your own ways by keeping me sanish and involved/ connected. I am really missing my shows at the moment! I see that Andrew P is going to reform his band. No offence intended but I think he would have been around when the rock'n'roll music I love would have been popular. It would be nice to hear his band in action. I have dabbled a little bit in playing music. I have an Arla Fender copy- a left handed version- on which I can bang out a couple of Shadows tunes roughly. I am considering digging it out again, wonder what Bracken, our newly diabetic Staffie/Ridge back cross would make of it. A highlight a few years ago was going to Warwick Shadows Club (actually in Wellesborough) where Brian Locking (bass player for Vince Taylor and the Playboys- he is on Brand New Cadillac, Marty Wilde and the Wildecats and later the Shadows as replacement for the great Jet Harris) was a special guest. On these occasions there is usually a band made up of members and people can play too if they like. I did a couple of numbers- gone all muso now!- with Brian Locking playing bass for me. Never thought that would ever happen. On the way back on the Kenilworth Bypass (A46 i think) i was just approaching the bridge where the Birmingham GW line crosses and was startled by the sight of a Vulcan emerging from behind the trees (roughly where Warwick Parkway is located). What an impressive contraption it was. Pete (Trisonic- great to see you back) has no doubt met a few interesting musicians in his career. What I am trying to say during my incessant waffling is that music can be a life saver and is another activity that can be participated in during this lockdown. Best wishes to all and keep yourselves safe. Natalie x

Who or what are The Beatles?

Hi to Tony and everyone else, As someone who doesn't contribute anything much, especially modelling, I just wanted to say thanks for sharing your projects, reading about them really is an important part of the day for me. It really does make me feel a part of something positive and constructive. The last bit of modelling I did was when I was Hinckley Signalman (not signalwoman or signaller please!!) with a T3 possession on and very few trains to have to deal with, I built a 4mm model of the Hinckley pway cabin, simply as it was outside my windows and easily accessible. PTS rules were not as stringent then and signalmen were allowed trackside access. It was nothing architecturally to get excited about as it was a modern portakabin. I wasn't keen on the models around at the time as they were 3.5mm/ft and really did look too small. I thought that it was something that I could manage so i measured it up and had a go.That was in 1990 and I still have the model which I would like to tidy up and titivate. I may post a photo of how it is and see what people thing/ suggest needs to be done. One positive thing is it is still square and has warped (unlike me..) My main reason for droning on is to thank all of you on here for keeping me less mad than I usually am. I have socially isolated since about 1978 and I am feeling hemmed in by things at the moment. I really feel for those who are sociable and feel restricted at present. We do have 'Wright Writes' though which is a breath of fresh air. No pompousness or 'look at me' just plain simple friendly and informative conversation about things that are interesting and that you didn't know about. I have learnt about valve gear and how it works, constructing buildings by the maestro himself Grahame, I am learning about LNER locos ( the only ones I really have knowledge of are the electrics and the ex Met tanks) and the fact that there are large variations within each class. I enjoy the honesty of posters, the fact that our glorious teacher Mr W has principles and a modelling philosophy which underpins everything that he does. To coin a phrase my late gran used "I know what I like." I like the approach to getting things right and helping others to do so too. It is all about sharing knowledge and improving ourselves. I also like the sometimes opinionated views of some, something that I have very many of myself. As an ex-signalman things like point rodding are of great interest and I'm glad that correct and accurate signalling and equipment is deemed as important as the locos and stock. Would it be possible to have some closer pics of the rodding and things like cranks and compensators please? I have always said that you can't beat a good rodding... What is also great is the photos that people kindly share. As we are currently not able to visit our usual shows it has been great to see what people are up to. As operating and train working appeals to me (plus I am a nosey cow), the series of pics that Tony posted about the operation of LB are of great interest. Layout operation is something that interests me greatly and is often a much ignored item. One of my bizarre habits is photographing entire sequence cards etc as I like to get a feel for how the required info to run the layout is conveyed to the operator, and indeed the public. One of the important features of Tony's LB sequence of photos is that he explains what the train is and what it is doing. It then stops being just a random loco and stock passing through just for the hell of it. I shall stop rabbiting on and apologise for the length of my post, but please continue to post all of you, it is great to be able to share with you. Keep safe. Natalie x

I doubt that they will be after me to go back considering they removed me for whistleblowing. I am also signed off as being mad, with the certificate to prove it. I worked in A&E and Medical Admission wards so might be of some use but was never trained to operate a vent. I could cannulate, take blood, do ECGs, IV drugs (including diamorphine) amongst other things but I am well out of practice now. I could verify but not certify. My NMC registration lapsed about 7 years ago because of lack of practice hours following the collapse of my mental health. To go back ordinarily would require a 6 month Return to Nursing course. Would you be happy being looked after by a nurse who hasn't practised for 7 years and is not up to date? I don’t think at the moment they would want me as I am brewing a chest infection -just as I always do at this time of year. But seriously keep safe everyone and keep your mind busy. There is a good community in here so no need to get isolated socially. It may not be face to face but it is reassuring and comforting to know that there are other people in the same situation who understand what we are going through and are looking out for you. Friendship doesn't need to be face to face to be valued.

Many thanks for your kind reply. I have photted the buffer beam arrangement under the floor. There is a metal plate with a screw at each corner. On close examination it does appear to be that the plate is angled to form the bufferbeam but it might not be very clear in the photos. I can't seem to get a decent photo behind the bufferbeam.

Sorry for the huge date bump but I have come across this topic only today. At the 7th Chris Kedgley Skills Day today at Didcot Civic Hall was some stock previously owned by a now deceased member. Mostly it was all manner of GWR types but a model of a Southern Railway GBL (Gangwayed Bogie Luggage) van caught my eye and for a very reasonable price under £10 I was tempted. I am trying to work out who the model was made by. It is obviously a wooden body and the planking appears quite well reproduced to my mind. The underframe equipment is on a metal plate screwed to the underbody. The gangway is either lost or not fitted. Overall it looks quite a good attempt- certainly better than the old Triang version although the bodyside windows appear a touch high. I have consulted my Gould "Southern Railway Passenger Vans" (Oakwood X50, 1992) and there is a chapter at the rear on 4mm Scale models of SR Passenger Vans. Reading the text suggests that the model is potentially either Ratio or CCW Productions (described by Gould as Cramer, Cartwright, Webster). Gould reckons that on the CCW version the planking is wrong and the windows a little high and generally not as good as Ratio. Judging by the advert pictures in this thread I really cannot make my mind up whether the model is Ratio or CCW. My hunch is Ratio as the CCW planking appears coarser and deeper in the adverts whilst my van has quite subtle planking. I have included some photos snapped by my phone and hope that they show the vehicle to advantage.. Apologies for the orientation of the photos but I have no idea how to rotate them as they were imported direct from my phone camera. As it is EM fitted we plan to replace the bogies with something a little more detailed but also with P4 wheels. The battery boxes could benefit from some surface detail but would it really be visible? Finally the ends need some replanking- they are wood grain on the model and an appropriate gangway fitted. Any help with identification gratefully received!

Myself and Kelly (D827) had a wonderful time. Lots of humorous chat about all manner of things and some excellent modelling on view. Where else can you see a Southern Region De-icing set on one layout and a De Glehn Compound (GWR 104) on a rake of LNWR corridor stock on another (set on the Dorset coast?) Whether you are a fine scale modeller or not there is much for the modeller to enjoy at these skills days. I recommend attendance! Thanks to all for carrying on with the day and for your time, expertise and chat.

Hi Can I thank the organisers for another excellent show. Can I also thank the stewards at the entrance for the consideration shown to my friend Kelly (D827 here) who was using her mobility scooter (or The Dreaded Contraption as I refer to it)? Firstly being able to park near the front despite not having a blue badge- not all with disabilities are able to get a blue badge- was also a tremendous help and again much appreciated. I went ahead to join the queue and get the tickets and to see if Kelly could be let through the barrier at the end instead of having to zig zag round the barriers. The way Kelly drives the contraption it is likely that she would have demolished it all or ran everyone over! Permission was instantly given for which many thanks. On buying the tickets I was deemed to be Kelly's carer (although it is debatable who of us is caring for who) and despite offering to pay was very kindly given free entry which was a wonderful gesture. This promptly went onto the Society's magazine stall donation plate and the rest to another worthy charity. Lovely wide aisles really make a difference. Despite generally being a fine scale rivet counter (apparently this is considered by some to be a bad thing) there was lots to see. I especially enjoyed the LU layouts and also the 3mm layouts- Addison Road being just one of those. I remain staggered that this size has never caught in commercially as my personal opinion is that N is just that bit too small- although gifted modellers like Jerry (Queensquare) and Grahame Hedges are truly gifted practioners and artists in this scale. There was really was a good spread of layouts of all eras and sizes and space to be able to see them too. Lots of people to talk with and all too soon the show was over. I had been that absorbed in things that I hadn't needed to take either my pain reducers or anxiety meds. All in all a wonderful show and thanks to all who were involved in any way. We both appreciated it. Add the 'banter' from Charlie Petty which is always amusing and I certainly had a great time-helped by obtaining a number of publications. As a last humorous aside on getting my hand stamped to go outside this is what I was presented with: The poor person on the other end of the stamp was mortified and really concerned that they had offended me and offered to do it again. I said no need and that it was really funny and hadn't realised that they knew me that well! The other stewards of course had to have a look at what was amusing us and they also had a good laugh about it. That shows to me what a tremendous hobby that we have in that we can all share some humour and have a nice laugh about it. That is what it is all about- friendship. Once again thanks to all involved and I am already looking forward to next year. It has done me the world of good.

I was up and nearly ready at 7.30 am! It is not me who 15 mins ago decided that she couldn't find her other boot. Not a criticism but just an observation.. I have had my seasick tablets and my 'anti sacred stiff' tablets so hopefully will be in a reasonable shape whence we arrive near to the door.. Looks a good show- especially the 3mm (oo er) stuff. Nat

Hi awl This is a very early rise for me and an even earlier one for Kelly.. There is a reason as we are just leaving for the Stafford Show. Kelly will be accompanied by Her Contraption.. Nat

Good news about the Mk1 diagram 24 RB (seemingly with B1 or CW bogies) but what is indeed intriguing is R4974A which is described as InterCity no 1981 RBR. Is this- and the accompanying picture suggest this too- a diag 23 RU (of the type that Bachmann produce) but in refurbished RBR (can't remember diag number) form which had bodyside alterations which Bachmann haven't modelled. Hopefully so as it will be a great match for the InterCity mk2d, f and Mk3a stock that isn't currently catered for by Bachmann. A clever move from Hornby if this is the case. Just need Hornby to do a genuine Mk1 boat SO and to omit those roundels from the green stock. The new buffets significantly tip the balance towards Hornby in SR Mk1 stock.