Roy L S

Not voting in the Model Rail Survey I am curious to know, what was this loco competing against to win the category or was it an open vote for any new model people wanted to include? Roy

I am not a OO modeller but having a general interest in UK model railways of all scales I have followed this thread quite closely. I have to admit that given the reported issues with this model I was more than a little surprised that this loco won the best locomotive category. I can't recall another model with so many reported issues ever doing this. However I am left wondering, does it more reflect what it is up against in the category? Is it the overall sheer volume of sales that has led to a lot of happy customers notwithstanding problems reported or does it reflect the audience Model Rail attracts? Possibly it is all three plus others too, and while I personally find it hard to reconcile a loco with the range of faults and defects as reported on this thread winning the category, the fact remains that it did. In some ways I am pleased for Hattons, as they are an old name in the model railway business and have had their share of knocks and setbacks not always of their own making, so this is a nice positive story. As an N gauge modeller it would appear they have no plans to do anything more following suspension of the Garratt, but having reflected, on balance if they did and partnered with a credible factory/manufacturer I wouldn't be put off - there has been a lot of call for the LMS Twins - they commissioned these in OO, I'll just end with that thought .... Roy

The only issue with that is that all the announced "New Tool" steam locos have now been released, unless one includes the partial re-tools for sound (N Class and 5MT) and diesels don't fare any better. Personally I don't think it matters which are chosen, such is the pent up demand I would think almost any new production in sensible livery choices will rapidly disappear from the warehouse at Barwell. Roy

Even more interesting is to look on the Bachmann Website as far as items no longer appearing goes. As just one example, only 20 steam locos in total are listed and of those just 6 are actually in stock at Barwell (Castle x1, 8F LNER only, Jinty BR Late Crest and 3 x WDs). There are 3 locos (N Class) due April/May and the remaining 11 (4F x3, J39 x3, 5MT x3 and Fairburn x2) "Awaiting" which clearly means somewhat further off. Not a criticism, merely an observation, the challenges around production and shipping must be pretty tough at the moment to see stocks shrink to this level. Roy

Don't seem to have received that newsletter (unless I accidentally deleted the e-mail!) good news re: the 128s, hopefully not too long then before the order book opens. I have tried to find the info on the RevolutioN website but failed, can Ben or Mike (Or Paul) please remind me what the spec for this model will be - is it to be Next 18 DCC compatible and will there be a factory fitted speaker? Roy

Seconded for the 128, would be good to see the order books open, but I can be patient (really), just happy that there is something else new that is powered coming through for us Transition types. Roy

According to my Bachmann Times, the Standard 5 sound upgrade is currently in the tool room so realistically even though only part is being retooled, by the time EPs have been produced and validated and ditto for deco samples we will be talking at least 9 months until release I would think, possibly more. It would be nice to be surprised though! Regards Roy

Here I agree with Grahame. It may be harder to model a more obscure region or era because of lack of RTR models being available, but I too would doubt it would change what most modellers would choose. I think generally there are sufficient RTR models to adequately cover most of the four regions of BR from Nationalisation right up to post TOPS, but of course such is the nature of batch production that availability at any given time is another matter. Admittedly some areas like the more vintage Southern EMUs is somewhat neglected and I would have thought something like a 2EPB in N might work given it's relative longevity, and it being a self-contained train, but there are 3D printed kits of some from Ajay Models I believe. Then in a similar vein there is the lack of any RTR LNER tank loco, quite glaring really but there are only a few that would even be considered as a RTR model I accept. So, in this respect again, it is worth looking at places like Shapeways to see what is available - there are some very nice prints. Here is just one example of just what can be achieved - completed for me by Steve Dacosta from one of his own 3D prints (Atso-Cad) it uses a slightly modified Farish N Class chassis plus 3D printed rear truck. Steve doesn't take commissions and this a model that I am lucky to have. The point of including it here is that it shows just what can be done, and with a bit of research about what is available, some creativity and some good old fashioned modelling there is scope to go some way beyond relying on RTR offerings. Roy

It is a real shame that with all the 3D printed loco bodies there isn't much in the way of chassis components available, N Brass does some really nice fittings and bits and bobs for steam locos but not chassis, wheels, motion etc. In fact I think one of the biggest constraints to modellers wanting to kit or scratch-build steam locos in N is the lack of availability of any suitable off the shelf wheels, axles and to a lesser extent gears. The only real option is cannibalisation recent RTR models that come up for "spares or repairs". ABS Beaver did make various sizes but that was many years ago, there has been nothing since in more recent times that I know of. The 2MM Association does make a range of gears, axles and wheels, but obviously they are much finer and not suitable for N. The question is whether there would be sufficient market to justify tooling for something that is suitable for N, and maybe fold up etched chassis or such like. It's a bit of a difficult one because without these components there seems little prospect of the kit market growing, but how big would it get with them and is it worth the financial risk? Regards Roy

No way I have any thoughts about changing scales. When I look at the range and quality of British N products now compared to 20 plus years ago there really is no comparison. Bachmann have made huge investments in the scale when you consider how the range of models compares with Poole days, there are so many more locos and a simply huge range of rolling stock - none with many generic parts, so it is inevitable that they will be made in batches and we won't see everything at once. I feel sure that the Thomas launch priorities plus Covid have inevitably impacted things but I remain reasonably optimistic that Bachmann availability will improve in time. On top of that there are the other manufacturers like RevolutioN, Sonic and Rapido (Co-Bo anyone?) and Dapol producing stuff and I remain convinced that when all is said and done there really hasn't been a better time to be modelling British N. Roy

Realistically I think that we will have quite a while to wait for already announced models, even where it is a re-run from existing tooling, I would think the flurry of Thomas models released of late has had an impact, and I would have no doubt that in both OO and N these would take priority for what production slots there are. I have just pre-ordered two of the sound upgraded 5MTs, according to my Bachmann Times (arrived today) these are currently in the tool-room. I reckon (and I would love to be proved wrong) release of these could be 18 or more months away. Roy

Until maybe you compare the underframe detail at which point the EFE one becomes a clear winner (again ignoring the price differential). Roy

Just read the update, having fast forwarded through the vid. I think I tend to agree that with the comparative lack of anything new at present, having a quarterly update for N only emphasises the point. Am I unhappy? Not really because being realistic my expectations were not high to start with. I had hoped we might see the V2 go through the shrink-ray but didn't expect it, but I had thought we might see one or two new tool items of rolling stock. But let's not forget Bachmann have a massive portfolio of N products already and I will very likely take solace in a weathered 5MT when available and source a sound-chip for it. What does it tell us about the health of British N? I think it tells us that more than anything there remain problems with supply due to Covid in particular, the higher prices asked on e**y of late (especially green DMUs) certainly do not suggest any lack of demand. Hopefully as Covid eases so will supply issues. Roy

It is good to see the various thoughts for OO models here, and I do hope some new tool items are announced, but as an N gauge modeller, let's say I am managing my own expectations as far as brand new announcements go. It would be nice to see a brand new steam loco announced, but I am not holding my breath and won't be poised and waiting for the nanosecond that thing start tomorrow morning. Please though not a 1:148 Raleigh Chopper! Roy

Hi Claggy There have been second production runs of all three locos you mention, albeit not for a while now. However things have moved on somewhat and I think we may find Bachmann's efforts focussed on making more recent loco-drive models like the Standard Five they are currently working on DCC Next 18 compatible and "plug and play" for DCC sound. Hopefully beyond that, in due course we will see other older models re-tooled, changing to coreless motor loco-drive and given the N18/sound treatment. I would like to think the Black Five would be right up there for such treatment if and when that happens (hopefully along with the V2!). Regards Roy

I got four Mermaids first time round so I'm waiting for upgraded Dapol Dogfish. We are getting a bit spoiled with Mermaids, Grampus and Dogfish ballast wagons RTR in N! Dutch ones still available from a number of sources on you evilbay, this is just one example who shows more than ten in stock (no connection and I don't buy from them personally): - EFE Rail E87514 N Gauge 14T 'Mermaid' Side Tipping Ballast Wagon BR Engineers Gr 5023219875141 | eBay Good luck those searching! Roy

That does look very nice indeed, when you see the detail and think about the intricacies of assembly it is easier to understand the £30 plus price-tag. Andy, can I ask, was this a review sample shipped ahead of the main batches or are they actually in the UK? Roy

I didn't say the LNER locos are neglected. just that it would be nice to have one of them for a change, it is the LNER tank locos that are neglected and always have been RTR in N, I can only think of the ancient Farish Holden Tank (ignoring the J94 which was an austerity design). Les does make a valid point, LNER modellers are lucky to have Union Mills, but that said, they haven't made an LNER prototype since the D16/3 quite a number of years ago, and aside from these solid but basic non DCC ready models, there are actually very few models from other manufacturers. Anyway, time will tell, I would like to continue to support Sonic so I am hoping the next loco will be of interest to those modelling other than the GWR/WR of the launch model (I dream of an N2 and have a Quad Art set waiting)... Roy Roy

I would like something LNER for a change, preferably a tank loco as that is the most neglected area of steam RTR. Roy

It has gone very quiet as far as this loco is concerned. I know there is some info on the RevolutioN website about this project (it says due Q1 2021) but I wonder if Ben or Mike can advise whether these locos will be ready before the CNY shutdown or whether realistically it is now looking more like Q2? I confess I am not just looking forward to receiving these models, I am super-keen to know what steam loco will be announced once these are delivered! Roy

I counted four beats per revolution for my 8F albeit not extremely scientifically. I think it sounds really good personally, and is probably pretty close to correct. If you consider the small wheels the chuff rate will be pretty fast even at lower speeds. You can adjust the "chuff rate" by changing CVs, but from those accounts I have read it seems a pretty hit and miss process to me, so I chose to leave my sound fitted locos alone, even though some two cylinder models' exhausts seem a tad less than four beats per revolution. Roy

Isn't there an EMU that's been tooled, sorry can't recall the class. Then the existing models partially re-tooled to take sound (5MT and N Class) and the "Parrot" bogie-wagon. The above said, I don't think that is the way Bachmann plan to do things any more, any future announcements will happen much closer to production, if I recall correctly typically not until the EP stage, news being the subject of quarterly updates. Roy

I don't have any skin in this game so to speak although I was tempted by the Scotrail loco. It looks a really fine model overall, but I have to say once you have zoned in on that cab window issue it is unfortunately difficult to "unsee" it and even acknowledging the size to which the pic has been blown up, the definition between red and yellow paint on the cab front is not as good as I would have expected from Rapido, it looks a bit fuzzy to me. Roy

Hi D9020 Nimbus From what you say then (unless I have misunderstood in which case my apologies) almost all of the models you have had issues with are 9 years old or greater? I am not honestly sure how this informs any conclusion on the quality of modern models Farish such as the Class 40 and new chassis 31 or for that matter the many steam locos that have been produced since? The last Farish models I had a split gear problem on was one of my Peaks, and before that one of the first 66's and yes, the problem then was well reported and pretty bad, but that was a long while ago. Of the more modern diesel and steam locos I have never had a split gear, and in other respects I have had only a handful of issues including a couple of can motor failures (easily replaced) and a WD where a Gaugemaster chip blew and took the motor with it. In my experience failures of any kind with Farish locos are very rare and the more recent diesels, the later tender-drives and those with coreless motor loco-drive have very good mechanisms indeed, and perform just as well as they look. I am certainly not "fooled" by the detail, if they didn't run well I wouldn't buy them. The recently released Farish 8F is a case in point, it exudes quality, and for the price is excellent value. Indeed, (and respecting your choice to change to continental models) how many continental steam locos have pre-fitted speakers and are Next 18 plug and play sound enabled for £144 discounted?? As to metal gears, it is a fallacy that metal are better than materials like Delryn, Nylon etc. The best combination is very often a brass worm and drive gears made of some such dissimilar material. Metal on metal, especially the same metal (e.g. brass) can often wear terribly. I had a Farish Duchess from way back when that had a brass worm completely worn away by the brass gear to the point where they would not mesh at all! Regards Roy

I respectfully disagree that Dapol products are anywhere close to, never mind of higher quality than Farish products. In my own personal experience speaking of locos, diesels may in some cases be close, but Dapol steam is now light years behind Farish, and all from old tooling. If you want a more relevant price comparison for steam, look at the RRP being shown for the Dapol BoB if we ever actually see it. As to pricing, the Farish rolling stock we are seeing now is of the utmost quality, and taking Thompsons as an example I have no problem paying £35-£40 for models of that quality. Sure, the Dapol Gresleys are cheaper, but then the tooling is over 10 years old, and remember when they were launched RRP was £25 or a whopping (for the time) £35 for the buffet car! Roy