Bob Reid

Having been introduced to both over my career you can imagine the hilarity...

Looks like 60031 Golden Plover, which did have the stripe....

Absolutely spot on Rob. Yes, there's still the issue of the height of the white lining at the top however without a major repaint (which I've no intention of tackling either) that's not easily fixed and perhaps offers little in return for the amount of effort. The only other thing you might consider is repainting the gangway doors / inside of the gangway rail warning yellow...

I would doubt any company would do that. Extended development and production times and unplanned "diversions" like factory moves make for very fluid timescales and it no doubt lots of revisions to the plan. Without any firm statement It'll still be their intention to revise these models but just how long that'll take is anyones guess.

Yes, still Vacuum Brakes - The Westinghouse QSA (Quick Service Application) were just another variant of the D.A. Direct Admission Valves popularised and already used by the GWR and LMS for more rapid application of the Vacuum brakes between the front and rear of the train reducing the braking distance at higher speeds.

They did that for the RUB only - if you look close between the blue band and the black on the roof, there's a ragged edge where they appear to have added more blue on as an afterthought - it doesn't have the normal crisp edge produced by the tampo? printing so may well have been a bit of hand rectification. I suspect that was done to reduce the height of the red band - something they didn't do on the FO but left it even wider.

Which is exactly what I said in my previous posting http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107460-oxford-rail-announces-oo-gauge-mk3-coaches/?p=3385465 however there's no getting away from the point that even if you reduce the height of the blue / colour band down to the top of the door / gutter strip it's still too wide by a country mile (OK slight exaggeration there) - the white lining band is still marginally low reducing the height of the grey above the bodylights. It could be something as simple as the white lining being placed over the grey panel edge and not the blue that's caused it but if your happy with it as it stands it's your choice. If it helps anyone understand the issue I'll put real numbers around it later. p.s. I've a photo of Mk3a where the Litchurch Lane painters continue the upper Rail Blue Band (but not the red / yellow classification band) above the top of the door / gutter strip up to the weld line on the roof panel - see my photo here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107460-oxford-rail-announces-oo-gauge-mk3-coaches/?p=3050007

No, the RUB, TSO and FO all have the top white line too low - the bottom white line is correct for a loco-hauled Mk3a however the top line is at the (lower) height of an HST Mk3 - the net effect is that there is insufficient Rail Grey above the bodylights and the classification band as a result is too wide but rather more noticeable on the Red (RUB) and Yellow (FO) versions. This fine shot from Robert Carroll's collection shows how they should look; M10015_DerbyWorks by Robert Carroll, on Flickr And OR's interpretation....

They came close enough with the colours for the B&G stock, where they got the details of the lining heights may remain as big a mystery....

Hard to believe its been more than 10 years since you first spoke about this and I guess 10 since its first outing next year some time. It hasn't half worn well and not been stationary (no pun intended) in all that time. congratulations when it comes round.

Now in stock - the B&G TSO's..... https://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/collections/new-in?constraint=oxford-rail

Bachmann at 1.3mm. (or at least the one nearest 1.3mm)

What happened to the pictures you found that showed it to be correct?

Looks like it Gordon! they've got the bottom half correct for a LH Mk3a and the top half from and HST Mk3.

`Good find there. Fresh off the works that one - you can smell the paint!

The problem with any guess at potential sales, is that is all it is - a guess. The NR and DRS versions are limited to a fairly short time span with no idea of demand whereas the existing tooling starting with the basic BSO conversion provides for 10 years of their life with the potential for add-on sales for 17 locomotives (albeit of the same sub-class) that have not failed to sell over the last 38 years by no less than 3 manufacturers and as a basis for conversion, from another 2. In all that time they've featured on many Post 1979 layouts - Scottish or otherwise. Post 1989 requires only minor modifications whereas the NR version needs not only the front changed (to at least one of several variants) and likewise both the sides and underframe moulding. Clearly there is some sales potential for the NR version but I would reckon that's more likely to be taken up by either by conversion kits or by a Limited Edition special from one of the Magazines. More likely, we would see the InterCity and One versions of the DBSO, long before any NR version.

I'd wager however there's far less sales potential in the Network Rail Version. (what variant do you choose and at what time) The DRS one's are pretty limited in scope as well. What they chose were 12 vehicles (+2 with minor modification) that lasted from 1979 to 1989 on the Scottish Regions Premier route. plus the Glasgow-Aberdeen's etc.

Too wide and marginally too low - at least for what I'm needing them to represent; Courtesy & Copyright of John Turner / 53A I'm intending to reduce the height down to the level of the top of the door (there's a rain strip above it on the model that wasn't present on the early Mk3's). There's possibly an issue with the height to the bottom which that won't resolve but at least it'll look a bit better.

Try the topic here Ian http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/74027-corridor-connection-between-br-standard-pullman-type/?hl=%2Badapter+%2Bgangway&do=findComment&comment=1099654. In general they were fitted to the BS Gangwayed stock and utilised when it was necessary to couple them into a rake of Mk1's etc. i.e. those with Pullman type Gangways.

I don't think there is an easy way! - Although they were not equipped with lighting, as has been previously mentioned they do have integrated electrical pickup's on the bogie's that also form the bearing cups that the axles run in. The issue with this is that they have a very short axle length of 23.35mm (instead of the usual 26.0mm) to fit between the pickup's / bearing cups which unfortunately leaves no room to alter the back-to-back - the inner end of the axle taper is almost flush with the hub of the factory fitted wheels. It looks like replacement bogies / frames / wheel sets is the only option for those needing EM / P4 needs - a similar arrangement is used on the Bachmann 2f's and other Bachmann Stock but with a marginally longer axle at 23.75mm.

Only if it get's a bit of modification Chard - I'll send you the Form 3's - I'm interested to see who'll be the first to carve one up though - not me I should add, save for a bit of ageing!

Okay I've seen it, now what?

Isn't it about time we all (inc. myself) moved away from argument/debates/ general hand wringing over the colour of these models. All that is happening that we are repeating exactly the same stuff as was done back in January, and at various times in between with no solution. No matter what the answer, it is clear now that they are not going to change the colour, and it doesn't match what went before even on models produced 25-30+ years ago The ScotRail one's are en-route and no amount of moaning and groaning is going to change that now. I've certainly said my piece about it and won't be continuing it.

At least nine appear to have run during July. & September 1983 between Edinburgh & Oban. for example see https://flic.kr/p/pBWiiF All it would appear using 37081 (Loch Long), Ethel 1 ADB97250 various push pull sets and DBSO's.... More info available on Six Bells Junction..... 19830717_049: 37081 & ADB97250 at Oban by Gary Thornton, on Flickr Different photo's state there was a run on 31/7/83. It appears to be missing on the Six Bells Junction site on that date., but Gary's shot here is correct for 17/7/83 and includes DBSO 9705

I think it's the P5 cover that's scruffy, and not the coach!. We had the covers fitted within the months of the service launch (following driver complaints) - the Second photo, again without the cover was taken during the BR Derby / Brush trials of the two-wire control system before the service started (DBSO 9703) - RMwebber' St Enodoc will know better than I where it is - he was probably on the loco or the set at the time... Those without the LPA boxes on the cab front that held the RCH jumpers were added (I thought, during 1980 - but I'd need to check) to be sure, to prevent the ingress of water - which had a rather nasty effect on the control signals - particularly on the 47/7's but they were added to the DBSO as a precaution) - the cables should enter from the top of the orange LPA box. The addition of ScotRail after the original InterCity branding was a Chris Green thing - kind of like a cat marking its territory and before the rebranding / re-livery post March? 1984...