Bob Reid

In amongst all this gloom and doom about the ScotRail / InterCity Livery - there's one good bit of news for those seeking the Blue & Grey TSO's

And the one colour that hasn't changed is Executive Light Grey (originally APT Light Grey) - Reference to a Chart is what exactly? Any printed chart is only for indicative purposes and certainly not for paint matching. See previous posting.

I'll wager Mike both are good match (paint wise) from back when the livery was current - more than 30 years ago - as you say, it can be done, and you certainly proved it. Lima CO Image, courtesy of Hattons.

The reason I asked Mike, is that written specifications by BR generally only specified how the "standard" colour should be achieved in terms of description. The actual colour that the paint manufacturers - at least four at one point had to be colour matched and approved by BR's Procurement folk by comparison to colour matched panels. Effectively if you did not match them to the colour panels (and these were physically painted panels, and not printed colour patches) the specification wasn't met. The colours produced by both Precision & Railmatch used these colour matched panels (at a time when these were still current liveries) to produce the paints exactly as BR had, hence the reason that by comparison, the colours they produce are a good match for the likes of the Bachmann produced stock. There is the question of colour scaling but that debate is a complete minefield!

Very interesting Mike, do you have a copy of these "specifications" that say the others were wrong that you could share?

By the reluctance to listen and act on the colour issues and with the errors they introduced from day one, they certainly have opened up the opportunity for an enterprising manufacturer to come along and do these properly - perhaps the Bachmann 2f's are the best example (so far) of what can be achieved with a lot of care and attention to detail, albeit for no small sums of money. Unfortunately for OR, fixing these errors on the existing tooling would probably wipe out any profit they were making from the release, never mind the cost of a contract variation to alter the agreed colours. I hoped they'd get the blue & grey versions correct, and livery wise, an d within reason they did. As for the body/bogie errors, I'd wager 70% of us would just accept them. The question is though, is the market for Mk3a's big enough to support yet another version? It is a real pity, that Oxford Rail, in not listening and acting on customer feedback have soured any future version/variants that they once intended to produce and no doubt wiped off a lot of the profit from the model.

We are fortunate that both Phoenix Precision and Railmatch matched their paints to BR's samples that were provided to the paint suppliers and not as OR seem to have done.

70% of modellers voted for Brexit and it looks like they are perhaps not getting what they asked for. I'm sorry OR, you made a good job of the Blue & Grey, but just where did you get the Executive/Swallow/ScotRail livery details from the 1970's? 70% of the buying public just want them to be correct, and that is not it.

Looks like a note on the display case that these are the (pre-production) early livery samples.... i.e the one's that have been trawled round the show's.

I think so John. I tried to take a photo in fairly bright light to show them as they actually are however I'm not sure it does - anyway here goes, note the recess on the lock and hinge pillar sides of the door and the raised mouldings either side. Apologies for highjacking your topic a bit Dave.

John, there's a recess either side of the door to represent the door shuts, and either side of those - i.e. left of the left door shut and right of the right door shut, there are raised sections that represent the anti-corrosion mouldings as on all Mk2's...

As LU_fan says I wouldn't expect you would need to do any of these hacks - I changed the address on mine without it and Bachmann provided the CV No. for changing the tail light end. I'd imagine they've already taken addressing it into account.

On the Edinburgh-Glasgow's and the Aberdeen's, behind the DBSO and before the second class accommodation - there are exception (like when no first class was provided in the set). What specific working and when are you talking about?

Martin, the single large fan was used on all air conditioned Mk2d-f BSO's. The 2d & e BSO's used a single large "Stone's" fan, and the 2f's, a single large fan by "Temperature Ltd." - There's only a subtle difference in the shape of the fan housing. The 2f Temperature one has more of a larger bell mouth shape and the stones fan has the motor on the outside. The housing behind them though is quite different - on the Stone's fan, it basically sits on a square box whereas with the Temperature version it slope back behind the fan housing slightly wider but narrower "box".

You mention rain strips in the photo and text. I thought you were talking about something fitted above the drivers window? (all were removed at conversion) at the same Time the curved end panels were replaced with flat panels. The set numbers - this posting gives some idea of their application ; http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115265-scotrail-push-pull-operations-in-the-1980s/page-4&do=findComment&comment=3020378

Looking good Jonathan. What rainstrips are you referring to?

Thanks Jonathan as long as it's of some use - DBSO's 9711-9713 had a few minor changes so unless you really need to have one of the later builds, they are best avoided - the equipment case if I remember correctly was moved into the van area above the brake cupboard - the cylinder is another main air reservoir (If I remember correctly to try and make them less sensitive to low main air problems). I forgot one other (very slight) very slight difference. The furthest away boxes from the cab on the MA set side (the side viewed with the cab to the left) - on the 2d-e's these were two seperate cases (kind of stuck together by the model manufacturers) On all of the 2f's inc. the DBSO, these two boxes were replaced by a single box / case, which was slightly less wide but deeper than the two cases of the earlier marks. Only a daft wee point! Great work! [Edit] Oh and another - after the obstacle deflector's were fitted the buckeye coupler from the cab end was removed - so all you'll see is the drawhook. The yellow main air coupling/valve was bolted onto the face of the deflector - same position just a wee bit lower down.

Great work Jon and they are turning out well... Couple of things to bear in mind with the DBSO... You need B4's fitted with hydraulic dampers rather than the friction dampers usually seen - that said both Hornby on the 2E and Bachmann on the 2F have them fitted (for the 2E it's only appropriate for later modified bogies. Prior to the obstacle deflectors being fitted, you need railguards on the leading bogie headstock (at the cab end). After the deflectors were fitted they remained in place - and were fitted to the additional DBSO's though in reality they served no purpose. Unless you are modelling 9711-13 the bogies need to have the friction brake blocks cut off and a representation off the Girling WSP equipment fitted to the right hand bogie - as with the Mk3A's - and of course the disc brake cheek discs. If you are modelling 9711-13 you don't need the WSP equipment. You seem to be short of one equipment case on the DBSO. This was fitted to the position on the underframe where you removed the PV unit from the 2D. It wasn't normally fitted to the 2F BSO's as it was added during the conversion to house the two-wire control modules. If you are modelling them post 1988 there needs to be an NRN aerial on the roof just to the rear of the cab. Hope that's of some help and certainly not a criticism of your work....

Coined by the Glasgow Evening Times amongst other to sensationalise it - hardly appropriate when it was associated with its use after the loss of 13 lives. Needless to say we were expected to never to call it by that name.

It's not a snowplough - it's an obstacle deflector or in the parlance of the time - a humble coo catcher.

The gangways as modelled by Jouef are spot on for use on the prototype Mk3, the HST Mk3's and the 3A's - up to a point They were modelled on the original foam type which turned out to be a mistake - the polyurethane foam used between the body and there faceplate acted like a sponge in the wet and quickly began to deteriorate / fall apart. A fairly extensive modification was applied to them to replacing the foam with rubber bellows - as seen in all the photographs above and correctly represented by Oxford Rail on the Mk3A's. If you are modelling them accurately, after the spring of 1984 all of the foam gangways had gone, but not before one caused an extensive fire on an E&G set at Cadder the previous year. [edit] to add - for modelling sake, the foam ones have flat and square section foam from the body to the faceplate, the later one's a nice traditional looking rounded bellows.

6,480 hp capable of just over 161 mph and in that livery as well. That's still going to take a lot of beating!

Wouldn't most of this stuff me more appropriate on a Hatton's thread? http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/269-hattons/ There's more chance you might get some feedback on some of the items / issues raised?

And there's more to the POT's than meets the eye - see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69220-Bachmann-announce-mk2fs/page-40&do=findComment&comment=3366860

Don't have an answer for the POT's but reply to the part off the same question here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69220-Bachmann-announce-mk2fs/?p=3366860