adrianmc

Yes correct - Hornby as far as I'm aware have produced Kitchen Dining Firsts to two diagrams - Diag 2656 and Diag 2651. One of these - Diag 2651 - is on the face of it the one required for the pairing with this new Third Class Dining Saloon - but unfortunately it is not! The Southern Railway produced several batches of Kitchen Dining Firsts to this diagram but they were not all the same when originally built - the diagram being amended to reflect the changes as each batch and subsequent modifications occurred! The batches were: 4x Diag 2651 - Nos 7858-63 - Eastleigh 05/27 4x Diag 2651 - Nos 7939-42 - Eastleigh 07-12/29 16x Diag 2651 - Nos 7943-58 - Eastleigh 05-09/30 The main differences were with the first batch. As built these lacked the already mentioned transverse vestibule with external doors at the Dining Saloon end and when compared to the other two batches had a smaller window in the kitchen adjacent to the double doors. Between 1935 and 1939 these coaches from the first batch were altered in that the transverse vestibules were added to match the others. However the smaller kitchen window remained. Hornby's model is of this post 1935-39 modified first batch Diag 2651 with the added vestibule but retaining the smaller window. Due to this smaller window - which wouldn't be correct for the 2nd/3rd batches - the number of the released Hornby BR (S) coach was changed from S7946S (3rd batch) to S7861S (modified 1st batch). It is because of this combination of added vestibule and small kitchen window that the existing Hornby coach tooling cannot accurately represent a batch 1 Diag 2651 Kitchen Dining First as built thus denying us the opportunity of having a fully lined SR Olive Green 1927 Kitchen First/Dining Saloon Third pair. Here's hoping! PS Diag 2656 is virtually identical to Diag 2651 batches 2 and 3 (vestibule and large kitchen window) with the main changes reflecting internal kitchen arrangements and external stove vents.

The early Kitchen Dining Firsts completed in 1927 (Diag 2651) differed really in only one major aspect from those produced by Hornby (Diag 2656). The original coaches to diagram 2651 didn't have a transverse vestibule with external doors at the Dining Saloon end - something that later Kitchen Diners were so equipped. So for Hornby to produce a model of one of these early ones - there were only six - then tooling for the different sides would have to be produced. Any easier option - but only if modelling post 1932 - Hornby could release an unlined SR Olive Green version of this new Third Class Dining Saloon / Open Third and number it in the range 1363-8 to make a suitable pairing with one of their existing 1932 Kitchen Dining Firsts in unlined SR Olive Green?

Unfortunately in the SR livery modelled these aren't. These Third Class Dining Saloons were built in 1927 to Diagram 2652 and numbered 7864-9 with Hornby now producing 7864 and 7867 in fully lined SR Olive Green. They only lasted with this classification until 1930 when they were reclassed as Open Thirds and subsequently renumbered 1363-8 Whilst in the livery and period (1927-30) modelled by Hornby they were paired with Maunsell Kitchen & Dining Firsts, also built in 1927 to Diagram 2651 and numbered 7858-63. Unfortunately these are not those modelled by Hornby. The already released Hornby models are the Kitchen & Dining Firsts built in 1932 to Diagram 2656 and numbered 7864-9, confusingly taking over the numbers released by the renumbering of the Third Class Dining Saloons being discussed! Hornby have to date produced 7865 and 7869 correctly in unlined SR Olive Green given their date of construction (1932).

Just dug out my copy of Mike King's Southern Coaches Survey where there is a chapter on LB&SCR six-wheeled stock. Going by the numbers on the SR liveried stock we have: SR No 7514 32ft 4-compartment 1st - SR Diag 507/508/509 SR No 1908 32ft 5-compartment 3rd - SR Diag 63 SR No 1909 32ft 5-compartment 3rd - SR Diag 63 SR No 3750 32ft 3-compartment Brake 3rd - SR Diag 176/177 Going by the elevations in the book for each of the above diagrams the Hornby coaches seem spot on for the panelling arrangements. As already pointed out earlier in the thread the models lack the distinctive LB&SCR "tall" grab rails at each doorway replacing them with a more generic type. The four wheel brake from Hornby seems to be completely generic as SR No 762 was a Billington 30ft 6 wheel Guards Van with a central ducket (SR Diag 901).

I have just noticed that The Festival of British Railway Modelling scheduled for the 13th/14th February 2021 in Doncaster has been cancelled/postponed. The World of Railways website is now promoting the 2022 event, scheduled for the 12th/13th February. Also The London Festival of Railway Modelling due to be held at Alexandra Palace on the 20th/21st March 2021 is now showing as TBC.

Thanks Dave - CMRA website 2021 diary updated.

Just noticed that according to the Bentley MRG website that Trainwest 2021 has now been officially cancelled. http://www.bmrg.org.uk/ We are now unfortunately starting to see events that were cancelled in 2020 being cancelled for 2021.

Thanks - CMRA website exhibition diary updated.

Sorry to hear that. Would you be willing to share the name of the venue so that I can update the 2021 Wakefield RMS Exhibition entry on the CMRA website diary? As an Association we are trying in these uncertain times to keep abreast of Associates' exhibitions whether they be cancelled or still scheduled to go ahead.

Hi Geraint, Vincent and colleagues were kind enough to bring De Graafstroom to Uckfield last year - its only UK visit to date. I agree it is a superb piece of modelling winning both the Keith Nock Memorial Trophy and the public Best in Show Award. More pictures at http://www.uckfieldmrc.co.uk/exhib19/degraafstroom.html Excellent video of Obbekaer by the way - just had chance to view as wasn't around for the "virtual" Scaleforum.

With the National Festival of Railway Modelling in Peterborough now officially cancelled as per the World of Railway's website it means that all the Chiltern Model Railway Association member exhibitions scheduled for the remainder of 2020 that the CMRA have previously been notified about, are cancelled. https://www.cmra.org.uk/diary.html And we are now starting to get quite a few cancelled for 2021. https://www.cmra.org.uk/diary21.html

in WHSmith in Brighton city centre this morning.

Also I believe that admission was free according to a friend who attended yesterday. Presumably trade stand rents (if any) offset any layout expenses (if any).

Not completely correct re the locomotives as I believe there were four types. 1) Nos 1 & 2 in original form with long side tanks 2) Nos 3 to 8 in original form with short side tanks and well tank 3) Nos 1 & 2 in modified form with extended smokebox and long tanks 4) Nos 3 to 8 in modified form with extended smokebox with short side tanks and well tank As Nick Holliday says the modifications to the spark arresters, which resulted in the extended smokebox, were carried out on No 5 first, followed by No 8 but then, according to Bradley, were carried out on the other six. Other modifications included better cab ventilation and a simpler firedoor. Although there were basically the two variations of coach there were in fact three types. 1) Nos 1 & 2 in original form with no droplights, 10 ventilators and wide body side windows 2) Nos 1 & 2 in modified form with droplights, 14 ventilators but retaining wide body side windows 3) Nos 3 to 8 in original form with droplights, 14 ventilators and narrow body side windows. Sorry for complicating things even more! What would be most popular; locomotive type (2) with coach type (3) i.e. the second batch as built or something else?

Before going down the crowdfunded route for a kit it might be worth contacting Dave at Roxey Mouldings to see if he still has some interest in the project. If going for ready-to-run that's a different matter!

Yes there are but again for those interested in the articulated set those specified on Shapeways do not make any differentiation between the main window spacing to reflect the two batches of the donor railmotor coaches. If the differences had been taken into account there would be four coaches offered, 2 for set 513 and two for set 514, and not three.

Yes quite correct - the S.E.& C.R. Railmotors were built in two batches and there were differences both in the locomotive and coach bodies. Nos 1 & 2 in 1905 and Nos 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 & 8 in 1906 The later locomotives differed from the original pair by having shorter side-tanks. The fully panelled carriage portions were dimensionally the same as the original two but differed in detail. On the second batch the bodyside windows were narrower, with a consequently larger panel between each; the third and sixth seating bays viewed from the inner end had pairs of droplights instead of a large fixed window; there were 14 roof ventilators; and at the driving end there were four equal-sized windows, of which the nearside and offside two were slideable." The original two railmotors had 7 large bodyside windows on each side when built and only 10 roof ventilators, however they were soon modified to match the second batch with the addition of more roof ventilators and the pairs of droplights in the third and sixth seating bays. However because of the original bodyside layout, the remaining large windows, new droplights and the corresponding above window ventilators were all noticeably larger than those from the second batch, with corresponding smaller bodywork panels between the windows. When converted by the SR into the articulated sets (513 & 514), for the Sheppey Light, and pull-push sets (481 & 482), for the Isle of Wight, the panelled bodywork of the coaches were plated over. Set 513 - built from railmotors 3 & 8 - so narrow body side windows Set 514 - built from railmotors 1 & 2 - so wide body side windows Set 481 - built from railmotors 5 & 4 - so narrow body side windows Set 482 - built from railmotors 6 & 7 - so narrow body side windows Mike King has produced a drawing which looks to be of the plated converted second batch and is therefore not strictly applicable for articulated set 514 built from the original 2 railmotors but is suitable for the other three. More information from: Bogie Carriages of the S.E.& C.R. - David Gould - Oakwood Press Illustrated History of Southern Pull-Push Stock - Mike King - OPC A ready to run 7mm/ft model of the Articulated Set was produced for a while by Electrifying Trains / MARC Models - however they were fairly robust as designed to go round 3ft radius curves and although advertised as available as set 513 or 514 the body side layout would be only suitable for one as per the info above, There was also a 7mm/ft kit produced I believe by J.M. Model Products whom were approached by a couple of Uckfield MRC members at a Bristol show to ask about reducing their etches to 4mm/ft - however they weren't interested. Subsequently my model of Articulated Set 514, which features on Leysdown, was scratch-built back in 1999 - featuring fretted out body sides! http://www.leysdown.org.uk I don't know of any kits for the original railmotors although I believe Dave Hammersley of Roxey Mouldings was considering it at one point. Hope this helps.

Robin and family with Port Foxdale at the 2001 Uckfield Model Railway Exhibition. My and the Uckfield Club's condolences to Susan, Tim and Annie.

List of exhibitions organised by Chiltern Model Railway Association (CMRA) members cancelled or otherwise : https://cmra.org.uk/diary.html

Unfortunately the EM Gauge Society website seems to be experiencing problems at this moment in time having lost all it's formatting. However expoEM Autumn this September is definitely canceled - confirmed by a facebook post on the 22nd May https://www.facebook.com/emgauge/

Southern ex SE&CR Class B1 at Leysdown.

From the badges worn this would have been at one of the Sandown Park Racecourse model shows organised by the Elmbridge Model Club.

I posted the picture as an example of what can be produced given a Falcon Brass kit, however the B1 is not my work but that of good friend and very skilled 4mm modeller Jeff Day. Jeff wrote an article about the locomotive in Scalefour News No. 140 (December 2004) in which he goes into detail about the model's construction. The locomotive body itself was used as supplied from the kit with a few modifications - e.g. the cab roof supplied is from an F1 which has a vent which the B1 does not have; it has an extra rib over it's centre. The tender supplied with the kit is for a C Class! When this was pointed out to Philip is became apparent that Jidenco/Falcon Brass didn't do one for a B1 so Philip supplied his etches for the tender for a F1 and Jeff heavily modified it to look the part. One thing Jeff did say was the locomotive was much easier to build in P4 than 00 due to the fact that since the wheels are set further apart, the splashers can be thinned down and hence allow the boiler and firebox to sit in between them better thus making more space for the motor. Also the secondary splashers are functional to allow the crank pins and coupling rods to move up above the running/foot plate.

Southern Railway ex SE&CR Class B1 4-4-0 to P4 standards built from a Falcon Brass kit (LK116). (Kit was purchased direct from Philip Rudd back in June 2001 - as an aid to scratch-building it wasn't inexpensive at £65.45)

Of course there is the Two Ronnies sketch - The Little Trains of Wales - featuring Dick Wyatt's Dovey Valley Railway. A layout I was lucky to operate several times in the late 1970s/early 1980s.