Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge GWR Dean Goods

[coachmann]

Isn't that the pre-grouping version? Although the green looks a bit light.

First World War austerity brought with it a suppression of lining on locos and all bright and polished work was painted over. The Belpaire Dean Goods with a non coal rail Tender looks to be a later configuration. GWR green was very dark at this period although it tended towards khaki 1915-16.

Edited January 28, 2016 by coachmann

[BG John]

First World War austerity brought with it a suppression of lining on locos and all bright and polished work was painted over. The Belpaire Dean Goods with a non coal rail Tender looks to be a later configuration. GWR green was very dark at this period although it tended towards khaki 1915-16.

It seems that 2309 is in pre WW1 lined livery, with the B4 boiler it got in 1913 and non coal rail tender, like this 1914 photo, according to the awful Photoshopped image Oxford produced, so I assumed this might be it, but without the lining, due to the polished bits. An obvious difference though, is the heavy riveting on the smokebox of the model, that the real thing didn't have.

 

It's probably too early to speculate too much though, but I want 2309 in a nice dark green so I can backdate it to one that had a B4 boiler in 1905, without having to fully repaint it.

[coachmann]

Normal day to day finish on that 1914 shot of the Dean Goods and nowhere close to the ultra polished appearance of many preserved locos of today. This is why the current scene holds no nostalgia for me. Yet when I saw the video a friend took last Autumn of a specially weathered Austerity 2-8-0 climbing out of Keighley, that did challenge the old pacemaker a bit!

[The Stationmaster]

Isn't that the pre-grouping version? Although the green looks a bit light.

I'm not really sure exactly what it is meant to be.  I suspect the idea is that it's the Pre-Group version but there wasn't time to get the colour and livery etc details done properly/checked for the show.  Mind you as a 'livery sample' it's not spectacularly worse than examples we have (and, in some cases, haven't) seen from other Chinese factories and of course it's photographed in a showcase and we're perhaps not seeing a true rendition for all sorts of electronic reasons.

 

However that again makes me wonder if it is coming from a factory that makes models for Hornby as it seemingly has technical differences from the Radial and quite a few similarities to, say, recent Hornby 0-6-0s.

[Edwardian]

I only hope that the quality of the green is closer to Bachmann's standards than Hornby's.  Hornby have never ever seemed to be able to produce a decent green for Great Western locomotives (pre or post 1928 finish).  The finishes are flat, lacking depth and either too blue or too muddy.

 

In contrast, their Southern olive green and their LNER Doncaster green seems, to me, at least, to be very well done.

 

Another example of the class with a Belpaire firebox from 1914:

[BG John]

Another example of the class with a Belpaire firebox from 1914:

And another without those monster rivets on the smokebox.

[coachmann]

And another without those monster rivets on the smokebox.

I don't know when Swindon went over to snaphead rivets, but folk modelling the later GWR and BR would require those smokebox rivets. Perhaps easier to remove from a modelling aspect John.

[Bulwell Hall]

And another without those monster rivets on the smokebox.

Not only are there no rivets on the smokebox of 2386 in 1914 - I know, I tried to count them - but the construction of the smokebox is different.  Later smokeboxes had flanged front and rear plates with a simple, heavily riveted wrapper as brought in by Churchward and exactly as the Oxford Dean Goods has been modelled.  Earlier smokeboxes - as in the 1914 photograph - were consructed with internal angles and they have a different appearence, some being flush rivetted and some having domed head rivets.  Also the smokebox door is different - fabricated with a steel rim which was often polished - rather than the later cast smokebox doors also as modelled by Oxford.  And the chimney is different - parallel and with a copper cap - whilst the Oxford model has the later cast iron chimney introduced in 1919.  All as currently seen on the preserved 2516 which is correctly modelled by Oxford as running from the early 1920s onwards.  Livery in 1914 would have been lined green with black frames, polished chimney copper cap and brass safety valve bonnet but probably not the dome.  Of course, it all depends on how fussy you are!

 

Gerry

[BG John]

Not only are there no rivets on the smokebox of 2386 in 1914 - I know, I tried to count them - but the construction of the smokebox is different.  Later smokeboxes had flanged front and rear plates with a simple, heavily riveted wrapper as brought in by Churchward and exactly as the Oxford Dean Goods has been modelled.  Earlier smokeboxes - as in the 1914 photograph - were consructed with internal angles and they have a different appearence, some being flush rivetted and some having domed head rivets.  Also the smokebox door is different - fabricated with a steel rim which was often polished - rather than the later cast smokebox doors also as modelled by Oxford.  And the chimney is different - parallel and with a copper cap - whilst the Oxford model has the later cast iron chimney introduced in 1919.  All as currently seen on the preserved 2516 which is correctly modelled by Oxford as running from the early 1920s onwards.  Livery in 1914 would have been lined green with black frames, polished chimney copper cap and brass safety valve bonnet but probably not the dome.  Of course, it all depends on how fussy you are!

 

Gerry

Mine needs to go back to 1905. I think I've got the right smokebox door and chimney already, but I'm hoping to do as little as possible (apart from converting to EM), although I suppose I'll have to repaint the smokebox, as well as doing the frames in Indian Red. Then there's the tender coal rails!

 

It does seem odd that their pre-grouping one has a combination of boiler and livery it only carried from 1913 until whenever it lost its lining after 1914, as well as some wrong fittings, when other members of the class had B4 boilers earlier.

[Edwardian]

An unidentified Belpaire example in 1915, double-heading with an Armstrong Goods.

 

2579, also in 1915, still sports a round top firebox, but, go back just a few years to 1911 and note the different position of the dome (and that she is much cleaner!).

 

 

[BG John]

2579 was the penultimate member of the class, built in Jan 99 with an S4 boiler, had an S2 fitted in June 09, and an S4 in April 14. Then a B4 in May 18. So the two photos show different boilers, explaining the dome positions.

[mikeharvey22]

However that again makes me wonder if it is coming from a factory that makes models for Hornby as it seemingly has technical differences from the Radial and quite a few similarities to, say, recent Hornby 0-6-0s.

My understanding is that this being produced in Oxford's own dedicated die-cast and rail factory. I think it is unlikely that they are making models for Hornby. But you never know.

[Adams442T]

My understanding is that this being produced in Oxford's own dedicated die-cast and rail factory. I think it is unlikely that they are making models for Hornby. But you never know.

 

If you re-read Mike's post he says, "a factory that makes models for Hornby."   There has been some doubt, despite the photos appearing to show a dedicated production facility for Oxford, that they do in fact actually own it.

[Butler Henderson]

This seems pretty clear taken from their web page with my underlining.

"We will produce the products at Oxford Diecast China Factory. We have carried out an expansion of our factory in the last 6 months to accommodate the introduction of the Oxford Rail range."

[mikeharvey22]

If you re-read Mike's post he says, "a factory that makes models for Hornby."   There has been some doubt, despite the photos appearing to show a dedicated production facility for Oxford, that they do in fact actually own it.

Adams442T. Knowing several of the Oxford team personally I can honestly say that if they say they own the factory then they own the factory. Can you identify what the grounds were for anyone doubting their statement? Sound like uninformed gossip but with what motive?

 

Mike

[olivegreen]

Uninformed gossip on RMWeb ?  Really?  Surely not. Highly unlikely. Unthinkable... 

[DavidR]

I don't care where it's made: I've ordered one today, delivery 3rd or 4th quarter. Chance to save up from my pension.

[The Stationmaster]

Adams442T. Knowing several of the Oxford team personally I can honestly say that if they say they own the factory then they own the factory. Can you identify what the grounds were for anyone doubting their statement? Sound like uninformed gossip but with what motive?

 

Mike

They do indeed own a factory in Hong Kong - having looked at it, or rather the city block it is inside, on Google Street View it isn't the one that featured in a picture on their website.

Edited January 28, 2016 by The Stationmaster

[Adams442T]

Adams442T. Knowing several of the Oxford team personally I can honestly say that if they say they own the factory then they own the factory. Can you identify what the grounds were for anyone doubting their statement? Sound like uninformed gossip but with what motive?

 

Mike

 

There were several posts some time ago on another thread concerning the ownership or otherwise of the factory, from persons who I take to know what they are talking about.   I have no ulterior motive in saying this other than to pass on the information, which I accepted in good faith.   Having worked for many years with Chinese factories I know the Chinese are most reluctant to let anyone from 'outside' have 'ownership' of any production facilities.   

[mikeharvey22]

They do indeed own a factory in Hong Kong - having looked at it, or rather the city block it is inside, on Google Street View it isn't the one that featured in a picture on their website.

It would surprise me if a building in Hong Kong bore any resemblance to the factory across the border!

[mikeharvey22]

There were several posts some time ago on another thread concerning the ownership or otherwise of the factory, from persons who I take to know what they are talking about.   I have no ulterior motive in saying this other than to pass on the information, which I accepted in good faith.   Having worked for many years with Chinese factories I know the Chinese are most reluctant to let anyone from 'outside' have 'ownership' of any production facilities.

 

Thanks for that explanation. I agree that the issue of land ownership in the Peoples' Republic of China is not as clearcut as it can be in England and Wales. And recently a few folk have had problems with reclaiming tools and stock which they "owned".

[57xx]

Missed this announcement. Glad I spotted it, looks like an alternative to putting a new chassis under my old Mainline relic! 

[dibber25]

Nice loco, shame about the angle of the boiler hand rail knobs. If this had been a H*&%by model we'd be up-to 14 pages pages plus of knob-gate - just saying   

To judge from photos the knobs on the real thing were almost horizontal. I still think this is a technical issue - models with cast boilers have horizontal handrail knobs, models with plastic boilers have them at the correct angle. Presumably it's connected to the fact that injection moulds can open in a much more complex way than metal moulds. (CJL)

[mikesndbs]

Wonder how much it will cost?

[rembrow]

Wonder how much it will cost?

Hattons are pricing all 3 initial versions at £95 with no riders concerning price estimation. Looks like a bargain.