Mid-Cornwall Lines - 1950s Western Region in 00

[5BarVT]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

They do, however, like trains, so weather and travel-weariness permitting we'll all (including little Nate (2) and little Nick (5 months)) head over to Thirlmere on Sunday for a steam train ride. I'm sure they'll be introduced to life in Mid-Cornwall too during their stay.

2 and 5 months: introduced from a distance?  5 months is about max grab age!

Paul.

[FarrMan]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Interesting, isn't it. The only thing that I can think of is that in this context Transport Studies refers to working out why people/things need to move from place to place, whereas we engineers come in later to work out how to move them. A bit empirical, though.

Forgive me for disagreeing but Traffic or Transportation Engineering, as opposed to Highway engineering, is about working out scientifically why, where and how people move about.

 

Lloyd

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, FarrMan said:

Forgive me for disagreeing but Traffic or Transportation Engineering, as opposed to Highway engineering, is about working out scientifically why, where and how people move about.

 

Lloyd

Lloyd, I suspect that these are just different names for the same thing. In my vocabulary, for example, the why and where would be Transport Planning and the how would be [highway, rail, aviation, maritime, etc] engineering.

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I therefore worked through these at the lever frame and I'll type up the list ready for our next session. I'll share it here too for the benefit of those who like such things.

Here's the first draft. Comments welcome.

 

20220527 PM signal box pulling list.docx

 

 

[Sharky]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Here's the first draft. Comments welcome.

 

20220527 PM signal box pulling list.docx 19.97 kB · 7 downloads

 

 

I personally find this a little difficult to read.
I'm used to having 'Pull Charts' list every lever needed for that whole route, and in what order to pull them.
Ie, Points, Lock Bars & then signals (distant being the last pulled off).

 

For example, here's a picture of the former Pull chart & Diagram for Frankston Box.

 

As you can see the pull chart gives you the levers for the whole through route. Though if you were bringing a suburban train into platform 2  you wouldn't need 34 and 36 as the train terminates at Frankston.

The one thing charts don't tell you is what levers are usually left out of the frame.
In the case of Frankston Lock bars 14, 17, 39 & 58 are in reverse for most of the day and only go Normal when they are required for shunts into those respective sidings.
Although I imagine this won't be too much of an issue with Porthmellyn Road, especially once the holiday traffic to the coast picks up.

[St Enodoc]

9 hours ago, Sharky said:

I personally find this a little difficult to read.
I'm used to having 'Pull Charts' list every lever needed for that whole route, and in what order to pull them.
Ie, Points, Lock Bars & then signals (distant being the last pulled off).

 

For example, here's a picture of the former Pull chart & Diagram for Frankston Box.

 

As you can see the pull chart gives you the levers for the whole through route. Though if you were bringing a suburban train into platform 2  you wouldn't need 34 and 36 as the train terminates at Frankston.

The one thing charts don't tell you is what levers are usually left out of the frame.
In the case of Frankston Lock bars 14, 17, 39 & 58 are in reverse for most of the day and only go Normal when they are required for shunts into those respective sidings.
Although I imagine this won't be too much of an issue with Porthmellyn Road, especially once the holiday traffic to the coast picks up.

Thanks - I was hoping you would respond. I had that image in mind when I drew up the chart of course!

 

I wasn't sure how you dealt with whole routes or partial routes but I think I get it now. I'll have another go and if you don't mind I'll send it to you direct to have a look at (might make a change from R&R revision...).

[Iain.d]

11 hours ago, Sharky said:

.... Diagram for Frankston Box.

I have walked over that crossing by the box, many, many, many times!

 

Kind regards,

 

Iain

[Sharky]

5 hours ago, Iain.d said:

I have walked over that crossing by the box, many, many, many times!

 

Kind regards,

 

Iain

The old box is looking a little worse for wear these days, but it will be celebrating it's 100th Birthday later this year.
Not many places can hold testament to that and still be in daily operational use.

 

It's probably also a blessing that it hasn't been repainted. As in true railway tradition, when a building gets a coat of paint it's due to be knocked down in 6 months.

[St Enodoc]

After a couple of iterations with @Sharky here's a simpler version of the Porthmellyn Road signal box pulling list. We'll try it out at the July running session.

 

PM signal box pulling list v3.docx

[FarrMan]

22 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Lloyd, I suspect that these are just different names for the same thing. In my vocabulary, for example, the why and where would be Transport Planning and the how would be [highway, rail, aviation, maritime, etc] engineering.

Perhaps I should add some clarification. Being an engineer, my english aint quite proper.

 

By 'how', I meant whether that individual would probably travel by car, bus, train, plane, ferry, etc., and what preferred route would be taken, to allow design of specific projects to be appropriate, e.g. where a new road, railway etc would go, and what capacity it would need to have. This would then guide the railway engineer, highway engineer, etc to design the specific project in the right place and at the right size. The only problem with this is that politicians  then change it!

 

Lloyd

[5BarVT]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

After a couple of iterations with @Sharky here's a simpler version of the Porthmellyn Road signal box pulling list. We'll try it out at the July running session.

 

PM signal box pulling list v3.docx 20.4 kB · 6 downloads

Now that’s a lot clearer. I understand it enough to comment now!

First comment (and there may be more when I’ve been more thorough 😊) is that you are assuming no sequential locking. (I know you don’t have it, but by the late 50s you might have.). That would change the mains pulling sequence to be e.g. 12 2 3 4 6 1. 
Pedantic Paul. 

[Regularity]

3 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

First comment (and there may be more when I’ve been more thorough 😊) is that you are assuming no sequential locking. (I know you don’t have it, but by the late 50s you might have.). That would change the mains pulling sequence to be e.g. 12 2 3 4 6 1. 

I wondered about that, but I could see a problem or two in that some of the levers are also used in sequential pulls for the other direction, and there might be problems satisfying both requirements.

Or maybe I am talking out of my hat - anything likely to have been installed or revised post about 1900 is beyond my reading.

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Now that’s a lot clearer. I understand it enough to comment now!

First comment (and there may be more when I’ve been more thorough 😊) is that you are assuming no sequential locking. (I know you don’t have it, but by the late 50s you might have.). That would change the mains pulling sequence to be e.g. 12 2 3 4 6 1. 
Pedantic Paul. 

 

43 minutes ago, Regularity said:

I wondered about that, but I could see a problem or two in that some of the levers are also used in sequential pulls for the other direction, and there might be problems satisfying both requirements.

Or maybe I am talking out of my hat - anything likely to have been installed or revised post about 1900 is beyond my reading.

Thanks both.

 

There's no sequential locking but as a rule of thumb - to stop drivers setting off before the whole route is clear - I have, wherever the locking permits, listed the signals in order from furthest in advance to furthest in rear. I've also tried to avoid the bobby having to move back and forth along the frame when setting up or putting back a route, although in a couple of cases the locking doesn't allow this.

 

Given that the Modratec interlocking is pretty well set in stone, it is what it is!

Edited May 28, 2022 by St Enodoc

[5BarVT]

6 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

There's no sequential locking but as a rule of thumb - to stop drivers setting off before the whole route is clear - I have, wherever the locking permits, listed the signals in order from furthest in advance to furthest in rear. I've also tried to avoid the bobby having to move back and forth along the frame when setting up or putting back a route, although in a couple of cases the locking doesn't allow this.

Starting in the centre(ish) of the frame and setting points first then pulling running signals from outer starting back to the distant is exactly how one tried to design a frame, to minimise running backwards and forwards. Sequential locking just meant that the running signals had to be pulled in the opposite order.  Not usually a problem as they were normally all close together.

I like your reasoning for keeping it ‘the old way’.

Paul.

[St Enodoc]

Quite a few folk on here will have known my good friend Ron Reilly @nerron who died last year. I'd like to let everyone know that his model railway items are being sold by online auction this Sunday:

 

https://www.invaluable.com/catalog/g4526ebv6h

 

Thanks.

[St Enodoc]

On 25/05/2022 at 20:44, St Enodoc said:

I won two coach kits on eBay last night - both Toplight brake thirds, one by Slaters and the other by Blacksmith and both at not-too-silly prices. In due course they'll probably replace a couple of BSL/Phoenix versions.

The coaches arrived yesterday and very good they look too.

 

The Blacksmith kit includes a set of "Instructions Part 1", which are generic to all their kits, but not the relevant "Part 2 specific instructions for each vehicle". Does anyone have a set of these that they'd be willing to scan and send me please? If not I'll adopt my usual practice of making it up as I go along.

 

Now, while looking at the Slaters kit it occurred to me that I now have 3 BTKs, 2 CKs but only 1 TK. I really need more TKs, so I wonder whether I could cut-and-shut two BTKs to make a TK and some sort of full brake. I'll have a browse through Russell later but has anyone, such as Mike @Coach bogie, done this and/or have any thoughts on its feasibility?

[Coach bogie]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

Now, while looking at the Slaters kit it occurred to me that I now have 3 BTKs, 2 CKs but only 1 TK. I really need more TKs, so I wonder whether I could cut-and-shut two BTKs to make a TK and some sort of full brake. I'll have a browse through Russell later but has anyone, such as Mike @Coach bogie, done this and/or have any thoughts on its feasibility?

I have not done so myself as I prefer to work in metal. Most of my cut and shuts start off with 70ft sides as they give you more side to work with.

 

Using the D47 you will get away with it on the compartment side. The challenge will be the corridor side where you are a large window short and you will have to fabricate this.

 

As an alterative, Allen at Worsley works is planning brass sides that the Slaters body can be modified to accept. He is looking for interest. I will certainly be after a C30

 

www.worsleyworks.co.uk/4mm/4mm_GWR.htm

 

 

CHURCHWARD TOPLIGHT Panelled

Corridor Third C30 56'  

Corridor Third C31 57'  

Corridor Brake Third D45 57'  

Corridor Brake Third D46 56'  

Corridor Composite E85 56'

 

Mike Wiltshire

Edited June 3, 2022 by Coach bogie

[St Enodoc]

7 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

I have not done so myself as I prefer to work in metal. Most of my cut and shuts start off with 70ft sides as they give you more side to work with.

 

Using the D47 you will get away with it on the compartment side. The challenge will be the corridor side where you are a large window short and you will have to fabricate this.

 

As an alterative, Allen at Worsley works is planning brass sides that the Slaters body can be modified to accept. He is looking for interest. I will certainly be after a C30

 

www.worsleyworks.co.uk/4mm/4mm_GWR.htm

 

 

CHURCHWARD TOPLIGHT Panelled

Corridor Third C30 56'  

Corridor Third C31 57'  

Corridor Brake Third D45 57'  

Corridor Brake Third D46 56'  

Corridor Composite E85 56'

 

Mike Wiltshire

Thanks Mike. Probably not such a great idea as I thought, which is also probably why I've never seen it written up anywhere.

[St Enodoc]

On 27/05/2022 at 17:27, 5BarVT said:

2 and 5 months: introduced from a distance?  5 months is about max grab age!

Paul.

All went well this morning. Nick (5 months) stayed firmly in Mum's arms while Nate (2) sat on a stool that I'd placed on top of the magazines shelves where Pentowan will go, so he could see everything but reach nothing! He had a rare old time blowing the whistle on my one-and-only sound-fitted loco, a Hornby TTS Castle, though.

 

They all leave for home early tomorrow so life will return to normal.

[St Enodoc]

Our visitors got away safely and on time and are now approximately 75% of the way home to Singapore. It all seems very quiet here now.

 

After Veronica and I had squared up the house there was enough time for a short session in the railway room, so I went back to the St Enodoc lever frame.

 

I finished Step 13, by cleaning up the burrs on the cut ends of the short locking bars, then moved on to Step 14 (funnily enough). The first part of this involves placing the lower, even-numbered, tappets into place and connecting them to their respective levers using the wire tappet links.  A long piece of piano wire with a hook at the end helps here. After checking them (again) for straightness, I placed the long locking bars on top of the tappets. The short locking bars need to be made slightly narrower to get a nice sliding fit between the long bars, which I do by draw-filing the two vertical edges and once more checking their straightness. I got about two-thirds of the way though this before time ran out so I'll finish the step next weekend.

[St Enodoc]

Apart for some correspondence with @Sharky and @5BarVT on the topic of pulling lists, there was no more MCL action until today, when I finished off Step 14. I needed to do a fair bit of fettling, which involved reducing the width of the locking bars and also ensuring that the long bars weren't binding in the locking bar guide slots, to make sure that all the locking bars moved freely. My test for this is that a) I can flick them from side to side with one finger and b) they don't drag their neighbour(s) along, I was happy with this, so next it's on to Step 15, filing the notches in the tappets.

 

I need to do a bit of homework here, checking how I built the Porthmellyn Road frame, so that I can make sure that I get the shape of the notches right and also that they are oriented correctly for the lever positions, given that my frame is back-to-front. Once I've done that, I'll use my tappet/locking bar matrix to mark and file the notches. A simple enough job but time-consuming, so it could well take a few weeks to complete.

 

Once I'd finished, I settled back to watch the second Super Rugby Pacific semi-final and, with today being World Gin Day, I poured Veronica and myself a large G&T using a bottle I bought in a recent QANTAS promotion, namely Ford's https://spiritsreview.com/reviews/fords-gin/. It wasn't at all bad but it hasn't knocked either Tanqueray or The Botanist from their places at the top of our personal league table.

[St Enodoc]

The Modratec construction manual that you receive when you purchase a lever frame is tailored to your specific design and is extraordinarily comprehensive. However, there is one section that is quite difficult to follow, namely the shape and location of the tappet notches. This is because the relevant information is listed by locking bar, whereas the logical (only?) way to approach the notch marking and filing task is tappet by tappet.

 

I therefore draw up spreadsheets, using the construction manual data, that can be sorted to show the notches either in locking bar order (for initial data entry and checking against the manual) or tappet order (for marking and filing each tappet). For any Modratec users that might be interested, here is the St Enodoc version, using the standard Modratec symbols - or the nearest approximation I could coax out of my computer.

 

SE lever frame tappet notch data.xls

Edited June 13, 2022 by St Enodoc

[Nick Gough]

It all seems very complicated to me - but is it really that bad?

 

If I were to go down that route I would have to deal with a prototype 75 lever frame for Cholsey & Moulsford.

[St Enodoc]

12 minutes ago, Nick Gough said:

It all seems very complicated to me - but is it really that bad?

 

If I were to go down that route I would have to deal with a prototype 75 lever frame for Cholsey & Moulsford.

It's essentially just repetitive (and tedious, sometimes) rather than complicated, Nick.

 

Unfortunately (or fortunately?), the maximum length of a Modratec frame is 60 levers.

[St Enodoc]

Today is our Queen's Birthday public holiday, which is normally an excuse to spend much of the day in the railway room.

 

This time, however, I had to do some domestic repairs that have been hanging around like a bad smell because I didn't have the proper tools. I bit the bullet and bought a cordless multi-tool, which let me finish the job in less than an hour.

 

That didn't leave enough time to make it worth starting on the tappets, so I just cut the timber for the Penzance tea-tray instead. I also took a photo of the lever frame, which is ready to mark and notch the lower tappets.

 

As the frame is in "construction" orientation, all the levers are in reverse, which will of course be normal when the frame is installed with the levers at the front. Confused? You will be...

 

By the way, yesterday we went to see "Operation Mincemeat", which we enjoyed. I was struck, though, by how Colin Firth, as he ages, is looking more and more like the late Kenneth More. Is it just me?

Edited June 13, 2022 by St Enodoc