Mid-Cornwall Lines - 1950s Western Region in 00

[5BarVT]

I’m back, faster than I thought, having applied some 5BarVT design knowledge (this time 5BarVT is the frame!).

Square ended notches I associate with mechanical sequential locking (MSL) which is ‘one way’ locking i.e no converse.  So to get the locking both ways it would need to be duplicated.  Then looking at the tappet data I find that each of the conditional locking bars has a duplicate (A/B C/E D/F).

 

So I’ll need to wait until you’ve done more filing to see exactly how he does it, but I think Howard has adopted MSL design (duplicated for converse) to achieve conditional locking because he cannot do it the way a full size frame would achieve it.

 

Clever!

 

Paul.

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

I’m back, faster than I thought, having applied some 5BarVT design knowledge (this time 5BarVT is the frame!).

Square ended notches I associate with mechanical sequential locking (MSL) which is ‘one way’ locking i.e no converse.  So to get the locking both ways it would need to be duplicated.  Then looking at the tappet data I find that each of the conditional locking bars has a duplicate (A/B C/E D/F).

 

So I’ll need to wait until you’ve done more filing to see exactly how he does it, but I think Howard has adopted MSL design (duplicated for converse) to achieve conditional locking because he cannot do it the way a full size frame would achieve it.

 

Clever!

 

Paul.

Thanks Paul. I think that makes sense (although don't ask me to write it out for an exam).

 

Probably the easiest one to visualise is the double square notch on tappet 19 for locking bar E. Disc 19 leads either to the Down Siding or the Down Main, depending on the lie of 21 points, so is definitely conditional. Tappet 21 has an "inverse" notch (square/angled ends) for locking bar E, which seems to correlate.

 

So, both the inverse notches and the square notches seem to form part of the conditional locking.

 

There's no provision for sequential locking as such in the Modratec design as far as I know.

[St Enodoc]

I finished filing notches today.

 

Here are the notched upper tappets resting on the locking bars with the lower tappets hidden beneath them.

 

Tappets 19 and 21, and locking bar E, illustrate what Paul was talking about earlier (I think).

 

Notching is the crux of the whole build, so I'm very pleased to have finished that. All that's left now construction-wise is to cut the locking pins and press them into their respective holes in the locking bars. After that, I'll no doubt have to do a little fettling to get rid of any binding, lubricate the moving parts and assemble the whole frame to complete the mechanical work.

Edited June 26, 2022 by St Enodoc

[The Stationmaster]

On 13/06/2022 at 14:08, Nick Gough said:

Thanks.

 

Practically speaking Cholsey's frame had six spaces and I doubt that I would have working ground signals either so it might be feasible. 

 

Do you still have FPL levers?

 

An interlocked signalling system sounds attractive, but it's still a long way down the road before I need to decide what to do. 

Cholsey would be relatively simple if you omit the ground discs and don't have sequential locking because that way you get rid of all the most awkward bits.  The only question then is would it be worth it if you operate without a separate Signalman?  

 

You could always do it in a simpler manner by having stuff worked by individual control panel switches and doing the interlocking of functions (but not the switches) electrically - I did that on an NX panel I built when I was 15 years old.  Or you just have the switches and no interlocking at all - which could be a bit dodgy with that running junction at Cholsey.  There is a (rather messy) version of the Cholsey locking on the SRS website - but it would be simpler to work it out for yourself off basic locking rules but using (G)WR locking conventions.

[St Enodoc]

On 08/10/2021 at 23:08, The Stationmaster said:

Leuralia Toy & Train Musum

Sorry to say that Leuralla closed a month or so ago:

 

https://www.bluemountainsgazette.com.au/story/7744067/end-of-a-beloved-toy-story-as-leuralla-toy-and-railway-museum-closes/

[Nick Gough]

9 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Cholsey would be relatively simple if you omit the ground discs and don't have sequential locking because that way you get rid of all the most awkward bits.  The only question then is would it be worth it if you operate without a separate Signalman?  

 

You could always do it in a simpler manner by having stuff worked by individual control panel switches and doing the interlocking of functions (but not the switches) electrically - I did that on an NX panel I built when I was 15 years old.  Or you just have the switches and no interlocking at all - which could be a bit dodgy with that running junction at Cholsey.  There is a (rather messy) version of the Cholsey locking on the SRS website - but it would be simpler to work it out for yourself off basic locking rules but using (G)WR locking conventions.

 

Thanks Mike.

 

That's useful advice.

[Nick Gough]

9 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Sorry to say that Leuralla closed a month or so ago:

 

https://www.bluemountainsgazette.com.au/story/7744067/end-of-a-beloved-toy-story-as-leuralla-toy-and-railway-museum-closes/

 

That's a shame.

 

A few of my photos from a visit in 2017:

 

 

[Nick Gough]

And:

 

[Woodcock29]

Very sad indeed. I remember going there in early 2012. For some reason I don't appear to have taken any photos inside which is most unusual for me!

Andrew

[St Enodoc]

On 23/06/2022 at 21:39, St Enodoc said:

My most recent Transport Treasury Publishing order took just 12 days from order to delivery and at a very fair postage cost too. Highly recommended (as are the books concerned!).

 

Usual disclaimer.

The two books I'd ordered were, of course, "Cornwall Transition from Steam" and "Western to the Coast" (thanks for the recommendation @TrevorP1).

 

Both are absolutely excellent. CTFS is a selection of R C Riley's photos, about half of which I'd seen before in various publications but the others were new to me. Perfect for learning more of how things were in Cornwall in the 50s (and 60s).

 

Naturally, there are fewer Cornish photos in WTTC but there is one absolute gem - 4931 waiting to leave Newquay on an Up express in 1959. What makes this so special is that on the left of the photo is an AA19 brake van, W114935 - branded Newquay! I've never seen one of those before and none of the lists of brandings that I've seen include Newquay. So, one of my unbranded models is going to be branded accordingly (Newquay or Pentowan? Not sure yet...) and will probably work the St Blazey - Pentowan Class K goods in due course.

[The Stationmaster]

Sorry to hear about the Leuralla museum closing down.  A marvellous place - as some photos posted by others have already shown.  It had quite an impressive collection of signal box diagrams when I visited back in 2004 plus a rather decrepit lever frame -

 

.

[St Enodoc]

23 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Sorry to hear about the Leuralla museum closing down.  A marvellous place - as some photos posted by others have already shown.  It had quite an impressive collection of signal box diagrams when I visited back in 2004 plus a rather decrepit lever frame -

 

.

My photos from 2016 are not up to Nick's standard, so I won't post them all, but here are some of the SB diagrams plus one of some locos with labels identifying them as having been built by Beeson.

 

Fairfield is an ordinary suburban station on the Old Main South line in south-west Sydney. It was formerly the junction for the short Widemere Quarry line.

 

Cowan is not far from Chateau St Enodoc and is at the summit of the eponymous bank from the Hawkesbury River bridge.

 

Unanderra is on the South Coast Line south of Wollongong and is the junction for the steeply-graded line over the Macquarie Pass to Moss Vale on the Main South Line.

 

A J39 and a B17...

 

...and one that needs no introduction.

Edited June 28, 2022 by St Enodoc

[St Enodoc]

I've now restored all my images on this topic back to the start of June 2021. Once I'd got into the routine, it was quite therapeutic. In fact, in a way, I'm sorry it's finished (no I'm not, don't be ridiculous).

Edited June 29, 2022 by St Enodoc
clarification

[Barry O]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

I've now restored all my images on this topic back to the start of June 2021. Once I'd got into the routine, it was quite therapeutic. In fact, in a way, I'm sorry it's finished (no I'm not, don't be ridiculous).

when did you fall on your head??? 🙃

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, Barry O said:

when did you fall on your head??? 🙃

Many times, many years ago, usually on the rugby pitch or following post-match rehydration.

[KymN]

On 25/06/2022 at 12:49, St Enodoc said:

Paul, they're only about 700mm away but I usually stand on a plastic step from Ikea (other retailers are available).

 

I bought mine from Bunnings.  Essential for the railway since I raised it, but useful around the house too.

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, KymN said:

 

I bought mine from Bunnings.  Essential for the railway since I raised it, but useful around the house too.

We have some Bunnings ones too. The Ikea ones are slightly taller so more useful in the railway room.

[St Enodoc]

The first job today was to take all the tappets and locking bars out of the frame and correct an error with one of the aluminium support bars that I'd fixed in the wrong place, which was therefore preventing the levers moving their full throw. Once that was sorted out, I cut all the locking pins and pressed them into the locking bars. I haven't trimmed them to length yet - the ones that protrude from the bottom of the bars are not so critical but the ones at the top are. They need to be filed to the right length so that they engage with the tappets but won't foul the lock cover, which will hold everything in place when the frame is finished.

 

Tomorrow I plan to reassemble the locking, checking for binding as I go along. There will be some but it remains to be seen how much and how bad it is.

 

Speaking of the lock cover, I popped into a local plastics supplier this morning to see whether they could cut and drill a piece of acrylic sheet for me. They could, but it would cost $40 minimum and wouldn't be ready until next week. They offered me an off-cut instead, to cut and drill myself, for $5. That was a no-brainer, so the off-cut is now in the workshop ready to be worked on.

[16Brunel]

On 28/06/2022 at 21:36, St Enodoc said:

...and one that needs no introduction.

 

Back around 1988/89 I was 16, and accompanying my parents to a dog show in Echuca - we live(d) in Melbourne.  As we were driving up (northbound) the Hume Freeway we noticed a plume of smoke ahead.  As we got closer we realised it was a steam engine on the standard gauge track parallel to the freeway.  Cresting a hill, we were finally close enough to see the source of said plume - 4472 herself, charging along northwards with her train, having a ball :)

[St Enodoc]

The new Kernow/Bachmann exclusive commission of Coombe Junction signal box in 4mm scale looks rather nice.

 

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/n/198/KMRC-announce-Exclusive-GWR-Coombe-Junction-Saxby-and-Farmer-Type-12b-Signal-Box-in-00?fbclid=IwAR1dtwLkthAM9R9uoBWQ46me6lAUpq1EL-lKdoGdQEBBgSQ3VYNPJAy4AZQ

 

 

It's a little small for the Mid-Cornwall Lines but I foresee many of these popping up on branch line terminus layouts, whether set in Cornwall or not.

 

Usual disclaimer.

Edited July 2, 2022 by St Enodoc
extra link added

[NHY 581]

19 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

The new Kernow/Bachmann exclusive commission of Coombe Junction signal box in 4mm scale looks rather nice.

 

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/n/198/KMRC-announce-Exclusive-GWR-Coombe-Junction-Saxby-and-Farmer-Type-12b-Signal-Box-in-00?fbclid=IwAR1dtwLkthAM9R9uoBWQ46me6lAUpq1EL-lKdoGdQEBBgSQ3VYNPJAy4AZQ

 

 

It's a little small for the Mid-Cornwall Lines but I foresee many of these popping up on branch line terminus layouts, whether set in Cornwall or not.

 

Usual disclaimer.

 

 

 

Morning John, 

 

Absolutely.  I'll be ordering one. No idea how I'll use it yet but it's such a nice little building. 

 

Be rude not to. 

 

Rob. 

[St Enodoc]

Another good session this afternoon. I fitted all the upper tappets, fettling as I went along. There was quite a lot of filing to be done but, in a break from Leeds MRS tradition, no hammers came into play. I found two errors as I went along. One of the locking pins protruded up instead of down, which was easy to fix by pressing it through to the other side using the vice. The other was slightly more tricky. I found that one of the notches on tappet 17 was in the wrong place. I'd marked and filed it in line with locking bar IJ instead of I, so I filed another notch in the right place. Fortunately, there was enough metal left between the two notches to hold the pin in place - otherwise I would have had to cannibalise one of the leftover tappets from Porthmellyn Road.

 

Anyway, once everything was in place I checked the locking against the table produced as part of the design. That was interesting, because it didn't quite match what I had expected. One or two levers could be moved when I don't think they should but, fortunately, all the signals could be pulled off for their correct routes. I'm not going to worry too much because, as we've said many times, if our trains crash nobody dies (as a general rule).

 

Some of the locking is a bit "sloppy" (technical term) and wouldn't satisfy an inspector but that's down to my lack of fitting skill, not the design.

 

To round off the afternoon I marked out the lock cover for cutting and drilling. Last time I worked with Perspex all did not go well so I will do a bit of research first (and would welcome any thoughts that you all might have).

 

Tomorrow I aim to file the locking pins and, with luck, make the locking cover.

 

Australia v England in Perth tonight. No predictions - there are too many variables this time round.

[ianathompson]

41 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Some of the locking is a bit "sloppy" (technical term) and wouldn't satisfy an inspector but that's down to my lack of fitting skill, not the design.

 

 That is probably better than having it too tight.

The signal fitters worked on the frame at one of the boxes that I signed for and then left to go elsewhere.

It was then found, within a couple of shifts, that the section signal would not clear.

S&T were called but could find nothing wrong.

The fitters came back eventually to find the problem.

The notch on a new bar was slightly too tight.

A couple of minutes with a file and everything was fine.

I would sooner settle for sloppiness than the need to call every train past a signal at danger!

 

Ian T

[FarrMan]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

Another good session this afternoon. I fitted all the upper tappets, fettling as I went along. There was quite a lot of filing to be done but, in a break from Leeds MRS tradition, no hammers came into play. I found two errors as I went along. One of the locking pins protruded up instead of down, which was easy to fix by pressing it through to the other side using the vice. The other was slightly more tricky. I found that one of the notches on tappet 17 was in the wrong place. I'd marked and filed it in line with locking bar IJ instead of I, so I filed another notch in the right place. Fortunately, there was enough metal left between the two notches to hold the pin in place - otherwise I would have had to cannibalise one of the leftover tappets from Porthmellyn Road.

 

Anyway, once everything was in place I checked the locking against the table produced as part of the design. That was interesting, because it didn't quite match what I had expected. One or two levers could be moved when I don't think they should but, fortunately, all the signals could be pulled off for their correct routes. I'm not going to worry too much because, as we've said many times, if our trains crash nobody dies (as a general rule).

 

Some of the locking is a bit "sloppy" (technical term) and wouldn't satisfy an inspector but that's down to my lack of fitting skill, not the design.

 

To round off the afternoon I marked out the lock cover for cutting and drilling. Last time I worked with Perspex all did not go well so I will do a bit of research first (and would welcome any thoughts that you all might have).

 

Tomorrow I aim to file the locking pins and, with luck, make the locking cover.

 

Australia v England in Perth tonight. No predictions - there are too many variables this time round.

I would suggest a bit of drafting tape (or masking tape) either side would reduce unwanted breakout and give a better grip to the point of the bit. Too fast a drill speed and you will melt the perspex, so a slower speed would be preferable. If it is a large hole that you need, start with a small bit and gradually work up to final size. 

Hope it works OK for you.

 

Lloyd

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, FarrMan said:

I would suggest a bit of drafting tape (or masking tape) either side would reduce unwanted breakout and give a better grip to the point of the bit. Too fast a drill speed and you will melt the perspex, so a slower speed would be preferable. If it is a large hole that you need, start with a small bit and gradually work up to final size. 

Hope it works OK for you.

 

Lloyd

Thanks Lloyd. That's a good idea. The holes are only 3.2mm so I'll probably go straight for that. What about cutting - any particular type of saw that you'd recommend?