Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[mikemeg]

Excellent, Mike, and as always, some great tips for the less experienced. It will certainly help when I begin my LRM version. Looking at the kit, there seem to be areas where some additional fabrication may be needed, quite aside from the issues raised by Daddyman. But it cant be any harder than fitting Peco 3rd rail without the plastic conductors falling off the rail...

 

John

 

John,

 

Many thanks for the kind words. I guess that doing these test builds has forced a number of disciplines on my model building which would otherwise probably not have happened :-

 

Having no (or very brief) instructions means that I have to study the etched sheets very much more closely to determine the sequence of assembly.

 

As these builds are often the very first builds of any etches, then nothing can be taken for granted in terms of fit, good as Arthur is at designing these things.

 

So everythng has to be measured and then checked against its slots, neighbouring parts, etc; sometimes a number of times before fixing. Parts such as chimneys and domes must be checked for their seating on the boiler/smokebox, sometimes the seating radius needing reducing or increasing to seat properly. Etched holes, to accommodate casting spigots, may need enlarging, casting spigots may need reducing or removing (buffers is a case in point when the casting spigots interfere with the buffer beam bracing brackets on the mainframes).

 

Assembly is normally arranged into a series of sub-assembles which are initially free standing i.e. footplate assembly, boiler assembly, cab assembly, etc.  Each sub-assembly can then be checked for fit, parallelism, perpendicularity, etc. prior to being joined to other sub-assemblies.

 

If any part is wrong then it has to be corrected, so that the build can continue. This entails either modifying parts or replacing them, though this happens very rarely.

 

Gradually, as more and more locos of the North Eastern are built, then a familiarity begins to develop with the engineering and design practice of that Railway, which does help in building the models.

 

Sometimes the build must just stop while replacement parts or new parts are produced or, while a re-design takes place. This means storing both the part completed model and recording the state and any issues for future use. Again a discipline which I would never have adopted other than in this test build environment.

 

All of this is to allow the test builds to progress to the building of a complete model.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited November 1, 2017 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J25

 

Well, apart from the rear cab handrails, which can't be fitted until the cab is painted and then the cab interior added, that's about it for the build of the locomotive. Now it needs a good clean and then grey primer, sand pipes fitting and then on with the painting.

 

The weathered black on the wheels and chassis needs a touch up; too much handling testing the chassis.

 

Now to buy a different coloured piece of artists card for the photographic background; grey on blue is not right!!

 

Once again, a great joy to build and I hope you'll agree that this captures the essence of the NER C1/LNER J25 very well. However, this is modelled as it would have been circa 1950, so this is very much the LNER J25 rather than the North Eastern P1.

 

Arthur can advise on price, availability date, etc.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 12, 2018 by mikemeg

[micklner]

I fitted the handrails to the B15's cab before painting without problem. Once soldered on and filed back level with the rear of the cab side the interior when straight in. A lot of mucking about to add them afterwards . IMHO.

 

 

Lovely loco , well done.

[mikemeg]

I fitted the handrails to the B15's cab before painting without problem. Once soldered on and filed back level with the rear of the cab side the interior when straight in. A lot of mucking about to add them afterwards . IMHO.

 

 

Lovely loco , well done.

 

Yes, I think I can do as you did with the B15 and many thanks for the kind words.

 

My B15 is now about to enter the paint shop. It will be as it was just prior to withdrawal but, that said, as I will model the last survivor then it will have been 'bulled up' for its final few weeks. Again, I really can't bring myself to model it in a final state of decrepitude!!

 

Regards

 

Mike

Edited November 3, 2017 by mikemeg

[Daddyman]

Well, apart from the rear cab handrails, which can't be fitted until the cab is painted and then the cab interior added, that's about it for the build of the locomotive. Now it needs a good clean and then grey primer, sand pipes fitting and then on with the painting.

 

The weathered black on the wheels and chassis needs a touch up; too much handling testing the chassis.

 

Now to buy a different coloured piece of artists card for the photographic background; grey on blue is not right!!

 

Once again, a great joy to build and I hope you'll agree that this captures the essence of the NER C1/LNER J25 very well. However, this is modelled as it would have been circa 1950, so this is very much the LNER J25 rather than the North Eastern C1.

 

Arthur can advise on price, availability date, etc.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Well done Mike and Arthur! 

[micknich2003]

Mike, you have your engine classes confused, NER Class C became LNERly J21, The LNERly J25 was formarly NERly Class P1.

[Compound2632]

Mike, you have your engine classes confused, NER Class C became LNERly J21, The LNERly J25 was formarly NERly Class P1.

 

Sorry to stick my Midland nose in North Eastern affairs, but surely the LNER inherited no Cs? All Cs were de-compounded; didn't they then become Class C1, C1 became J21... Or have I missed something?

[micknich2003]

Sorry to stick my Midland nose in North Eastern affairs, but surely the LNER inherited no Cs? All Cs were de-compounded; didn't they then become Class C1, C1 became J21... Or have I missed something?

The entire class reverted to Class C in 1914, "C1" being no longer required, the last Compound was converted to Simple propulsion in 1913.

[mikemeg]

 NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J25

 

Mike, you have your engine classes confused, NER Class C became LNERly J21, The LNERly J25 was formarly NERly Class P1.

 

Mick,

 

Yes, NER Class P1 not C1.

 

Anyway, in pursuit of better photographs I tried a few different coloured backgrounds, which might work with grey primed models. Ths one seems to work best.

 

I know there are some, on here, for whom the photos of models are purely incidental!! For me the photos are almost as important as the model, though my old mate Mick Nicholson will remind me that a piece of track to support the model would enhance the photos far more!! T'will be done!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 12, 2018 by mikemeg

[Suchet]

Is there any information about availability and price yet?

 

Rob van Staveren

[ArthurK]

The kit will be available after New Year. The price is not finalised yet but it is likely to be £110-£120 if that helps.

 

ArthurK

[iak]

Another very tasty beast sir.

Fortunately, I shall stay with the J72 - that I can justify financially.

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J25

 

And now the brass and nickel silver is subsumed under a coat of grey.

 

So, that's the kit for the LNER J25. I will add a few more details prior to painting - internal motion, sand pipes, piping under the cab, etc.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 12, 2018 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN SIGNAL BRIDGES

 

By way of a brief respite from the loco building a much shorter project shown on the photo below. No it isn't the Peppercorn A1 or the signal box; it is that lovely McKenzie & Holland signal bridge, though only the production of a 4mm scale drawing of it. I can't see where I could incorporate this in the layout, though I do have some model signal installations almost as large as this.

 

I am indebted to my old mate Mick Nicholson for this photograph; and what a photograph!! Just look at the line of the ballast shoulder, on the rightmost track. It is perfect!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 12, 2018 by mikemeg

[Guest Q663389]

Apologies for the slight digression Mike.

 

I have just received and LRM kit for a J21 (7mm and now with Gladiator via Fourtrack, indeed mine must be from the cross over period because although the box has LRM branding there was a small note inside saying that the range had been taken over by Fourtrack) for my birthday and wondered whether it originated with Steve Barnfield or George Norton?

 

 

These kits were the original work of Keith Dales. I bought the last of the 7mm J21 and J25 plus two J25's. They weren't perfect, but in the mid 80's I was simply pleased to get them. My friend turned up the boilers for the 7mm models on his lathe for me.

 

Regards,

 

Alan

[mikemeg]

 NORTH EASTERN SIGNAL BRIDGES

 

 

I can't see where I could incorporate this in the layout, though I do have some model signal installations almost as large as this.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

And there is one, which is still work-in-progress, which is even larger; and which I am about to restart and finish.

 

This bridge, spanning some ninety six feet, once stood at the north end of Scarbrough Londesborough Road Station.

 

As with all of these signal models, detailed 4mm drawings were made from photographs and from the use of known dimensions. The lattice girders on these models are all scratch built on home made jigs, each made for the particular prototype. Construction of the lattice girders uses 1.0mm 'L' angle and 0.8 mm nickel silver strip, which is .005" thick. The radiused sections of the lattices are done by cutting one side of the 'L' angle at 1.0 mm intervals, using a 6.0 blade in a piercing saw, cutting perhaps thirty five to forty times and then forming the curve around a former, after which the curve is flooded with solder and finished with very fine files.

 

The dolls are fabricated from .030" plasticard, reinforced with 0.8 mm brass rod, buried inside the doll, and the castings, arms, etc are MSE.

 

If some of the dolls appear to be 'off the perpendicular' that is because they are. None of the dolls are yet fixed so they simply rest within the lattice bridge.

 

I know this is not a North Eastern loco but it is North Eastern, though I will detail its further build within the Signalling Section.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 12, 2018 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN SIGNAL BRIDGES

 

I won't fill this thread with 'signalling stuff' but someone pm'd me asking how the drawings were done and what did they look like?

 

Well the drawings are done to 4 mm scale, with pencil and then Graphik Line Markers - .005 and .01 thickness. These drawings take a long while to do; this one took around thirty hours of measuring from photos, calculating using a scientific calculator and then drawing. The model can then be made, and was, from this drawing.

 

Though done as black line drawings, two colours are allowed - signal red and signal yellow!

 

You'll see the drawing better if you click onto it, which will enlarge the image!!

 

Now back to the locos!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 12, 2018 by mikemeg

[clecklewyke]

What a lovely drawing of a signal gantry full of character.

 

I love the mixture of NER period slotted posts with LQ arms and fancy finials and UQ arms on flat-cap posts.

 

I wonder whether the latter were additions or replacements?

 

Ian

[mikemeg]

 NORTH EASTERN SIGNAL BRIDGES

 

What a lovely drawing of a signal gantry full of character.

 

I love the mixture of NER period slotted posts with LQ arms and fancy finials and UQ arms on flat-cap posts.

 

I wonder whether the latter were additions or replacements?

 

Ian

 

Ian,

 

Many thanks for the very kind words. These things are something of a passion for me and a great joy, both to draw and to build. As you say, they had great character, despite being just 'functional parts of the railway'. In fact they were quite beautiful things. And the arms, on the various dolls on the bridge, were of different lengths and widths. all adding to the character.

 

The drawing represents this bridge circa mid 1950, from photos of that period. I do have a photo of this same bridge in late NER days, with the track layout then as it was in 1950, so I can definitely say that the UQ arms on flat cap posts were replacements.

 

I am just completing another of these drawings; this one of the Barlby North bridge in the photo above.

 

I know the modern railway demands a much more visible and flexible signallng system but these things, with their Victorian design ancestry, really did enhance the railway in a way which their modern replacements simply don't do.

 

And, as a final thought on this diversion, how about this one. This stood about half a mile from Hull's Paragon Station until the whole station approach was re-signalled. The photo, courtesy Mick Nicholson's collection, was taken in 1937. Just look how tidy the railway was in those days!

 

Very best regards

 

Mike

Edited January 12, 2018 by mikemeg

[clecklewyke]

Mike,

 

are you sure the picture was taken in 1937? It's odd that all arms on all the signals shown are "on" so I suspect it is an official LNER photo. Maybe it was done to record what was to be swept away by the re-signalling but I think this was the site of the famous "Greek meets Greek" head-on accident between an arrival from Withernsea and a Scarborough departure at West Parade in 1927. Coincidence?

 

See this link  and this

 

Ian

 

P.S. Note that in 1927 commuters could get on a train at Withernsea at 8.22 and be into the centre of Hull by just after 9.10. Try doing that now...

Edited November 21, 2017 by clecklewyke

[mikemeg]

Mike,

 

are you sure the picture was taken in 1937? It's odd that all arms on all the signals shown are "on" so I suspect it is an official LNER photo. Maybe it was done to record what was to be swept away by the re-signalling but I think this was the site of the famous "Greek meets Greek" head-on accident between an arrival from Withernsea and a Scarborough departure at West Parade in 1927. Coincidence?

 

See this link  and this

 

Ian

 

P.S. Note that in 1927 commuters could get on a train at Withernsea at 8.22 and be into the centre of Hull by just after 9.10. Try doing that now...

 

Ian,

 

As the re-signalling was done in 1938, you're probably right about this being an LNER official photo. I'm not sure exactly where the 'Greek meets Greek' accident took place but it was certainly between the road bridge, in the above photo, and Paragon station itself.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[micknich2003]

The photograph was taken by the LNERly 31 May 1938, and after commisioning of the new signalling at Paragon station.

[mikemeg]

The photograph was taken by the LNERly 31 May 1938, and after commisioning of the new signalling at Paragon station.

 

And, the signal bridge in the photo remained in use after the re-signalling; finally being replaced in the mid 1950's. This according to Mick Nicholson. Mick also confirmed that the accident, referred to in the above postings, took place between the signal bridge and the road bridge in the photo above, with an inbound Withernsea train running into an outbound Scarborough train. One train was actually on the wrong line.

 

Now back to locos!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited November 21, 2017 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN SIGNAL BRIDGES

 

Ok not quite yet back to the locos, though later today. After a couple of aborted drawing attempts, the Barlby North signal bridge has now been sized and the drawing is now well advanced. Once again I am indebted to my old mate Mick Nicholson for supplying works drawings and plans from the North Eastern Railway and from McKenzie & Holland.

 

Even at 4mm / 1 foot this thing was over a foot along the decking. They were big things, some of these!!

 

Tell you what; if you think the modelling demands accuracy (and it does) try these. They are a whole different ball game to get right but rewarding, when the dimensions all tally and the drawing is done. I hope the old eyesight holds up for me to do a few more of these!!

 

I suppose, in defence of a potential diversion from topic, these drawings are the first phase of a later scratch build!

 

A little bit of parallax on the photo, those lattice posts are perpendicular and parallel - honest!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 12, 2018 by mikemeg

[Portchullin Tatty]

Mike, how to you transfer the movements down to the board (presuming these are operational?).  With the number of arms, there are a lot of moving parts on top of each other and it gets beyond practical (to me anyway!).