billbedford Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) My method for bogies is the Geoff Holt one of no secondary suspension, just because I'm paranoid about weight distribution. No prototype steam loco bogies had secondary suspension. The most common arrangement was an equalising beam on each side with an integral spring. As in this model Edited January 11, 2018 by billbedford 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 I wonder if the chassis has been redesigned by LRM? Jol may be able to tell us. Some parts on the other Norton kits have been redone. One of the issues I'm having with the chassis, even now I've sorted the earlier problems, is that the compensation beams keep jumping off their perch on the round parts of the hornblocks. That may stop once the wheels and coupling rods are in permanently and act to limit movement, but I'm wondering about replacing the etched beams with traditional ones made from brass rod. That way, more beam would be in contact with the hornblocks. I could possibly even put one rod beam up the centre of the chassis, working on the axles - I dunno, I'd need to read Ricey again. I spent most of the day with John Redrup yesterday at the CMRA Stevenage show (beside making a few purchases, talking to friends and a quick tour of the two halls to look at the layouts as I am not going again today). The GN artwork for the G5 has not been modified. It has been one of the best sellers from the old GN range over the years, with no appreciable feedback that indicated anything needed changing. Some people will suggest a better way - in their view - of doing things, but it's often just a matter of preference. AFAIK the original hand drawn artwork is no longer available so any changes would require a complete redraw and new tooling. For example the artwork for the new 49a boiler, footplate and splashers for the B16 that Mike has featured in this thread was drawn using 2D CAD and will be supplied in the kit as a separate etch from additional new tooling.This isn't unusual, for once the production tool has been produced, hand drawn artwork sometimes got lost. Sometimes the etcher keeps it (which is okay if they have a good archive system), sometimes it goes back to the draftsman (likewise). John was interested to know why you asked if it had been changed. Jol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted January 14, 2018 Author Share Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) I spent most of the day with John Redrup yesterday at the CMRA Stevenage show (beside making a few purchases, talking to friends and a quick tour of the two halls to look at the layouts as I am not going again today). The GN artwork for the G5 has not been modified. It has been one of the best sellers from the old GN range over the years, with no appreciable feedback that indicated anything needed changing. Some people will suggest a better way - in their view - of doing things, but it's often just a matter of preference. AFAIK the original hand drawn artwork is no longer available so any changes would require a complete redraw and new tooling. For example the artwork for the new 49a boiler, footplate and splashers for the B16 that Mike has featured in this thread was drawn using 2D CAD and will be supplied in the kit as a separate etch from additional new tooling.This isn't unusual, for once the production tool has been produced, hand drawn artwork sometimes got lost. Sometimes the etcher keeps it (which is okay if they have a good archive system), sometimes it goes back to the draftsman (likewise). John was interested to know why you asked if it had been changed. Jol The G5 kit, which I am building first, is actually one of the original George Norton Connoisseurs Choice kits which I bought from Arthur. Apart from the instructions which are just a little brief, I believe the kit has remained largely unaltered in nearly thirty years which must say something about its design and its accuracy. Earlier in this thread, Arthur posted a photo of one of these kits fully completed and it did look a lovely model. So far no problems have been encountered and, provided that some care is taken, I can't foresee any real problems. I may add some guiding pieces, as I did under the footplate, but this is just to assist in achieving squareness, tightness of fit and the invisibility of the soldering. Cheers Mike Edited January 15, 2018 by mikemeg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5 In between some activities on the J77's the two sides of the G5 superstructure were cut out, dressed and the cab cutout beading added. This cab cutout beading was formed to the required profile, before being soldered, to ensure that it both fits and that both ends would overlap the cab side sheets by the same amount, which they did. As ever, all soldering is done from the inside. After folding up the tank front, then the first tank/cab/bunker side is soldered to the footplate, again from the inside so that there is no gap between the side assembly and the footplate and no solder actually shows or needs removing. A check to ensure that the tank/cab/bunker assembly is absolutely perpendicular to the footplate, while adjustment is still possible, and so far everything is ok!! I don't know how long these etches have been in the box (twenty years plus?) but they require only a light brushing with the glass fibre brush to restore that lovely lustrous colour of brass and nickel silver. Cheers Mike Edited January 15, 2018 by mikemeg 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5 With the fitting of the other tank/cab/bunker side and then, after forming the flare, the bunker rear, then the basic superstructure starts to take shape. Another check on the second side to ensure that it is perpendicular to the footplate and that there are no gaps then, again, that's it for today on the G5 and back to the J77's. Cheers Mike Edited January 15, 2018 by mikemeg 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5 A little more progress on the G5, with the forming and fitting of the tank tops/insides and their soldering into the loco supertructure. The one piece etching for the smokebox front and combined front splashers and sandboxes has been folded and then the splasher tops slowly and gently formed to the curve profile of the splasher sides. This was done using a 1/4" diameter rod for the tighter curves and just finger pressure for the larger radius curves, checking against the splasher sides until the two curve profiles matched, after which the splasher tops are soldered to the sides. A very careful dressing off with the needle files - this assembly is quite delicate - and this assembly can be checked agaist the witness marks on the footplate, though not yet fixed. The small splashers which cover the motion journals have still to be formed and fitted. Cheers Mike Edited January 16, 2018 by mikemeg 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J77 On he J77's all of the 'mechanicals' are now done with each loco fitted with a High Level Models humpshunter gearbox (120 : 1) and a Mashima 1220 motor, driving the middle axle and with the motor inclined at around 20 degrees from the horizontal up into the firebox. The small amount of cylinder cover, above the front footplate has been refitted and, rather than being part of the full cylinder front fixed to the chassis, is now a separate piece fitted to the front of the smokebox. The front cylinder cover piece is actually provided in the three gauges - OO, EM and P4 - so I used the EM part and cut off the top 2 mm with a piercing saw to fit to the loco front. The relative angles of the reversing rods and the sanding rods might need a little adjustment now that I can see them properly on the locos!! So now the final few details and these can be primed and painted. 68402 (square windows) on the left, 68429 (round windows) on the right. Another two to join the ranks of the 0-6-0 tanks! Cheers Mike Edited January 17, 2018 by mikemeg 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Mike, the G5 looks great as you are showing the super structure goes together beautifully. Personally I have issues with the structure of the chassis which I will say no more about as I want to watch what you do to see if I had the right idea or not! This is one of the locos I would like to finish this year (well a bit of a resolution to complete fully some of my half completed models this year. Before buying new ones..) in saying all that do you have any info of the NER dia 15 6 wheel coach as I am trying to complete the D&s kit of one. I think I am there but the roof detail is partially alluding me! Otherwise it will be best guess! Thanks Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5 Mike, the G5 looks great as you are showing the super structure goes together beautifully. Personally I have issues with the structure of the chassis which I will say no more about as I want to watch what you do to see if I had the right idea or not!This is one of the locos I would like to finish this year (well a bit of a resolution to complete fully some of my half completed models this year. Before buying new ones..) in saying all that do you have any info of the NER dia 15 6 wheel coach as I am trying to complete the D&s kit of one. I think I am there but the roof detail is partially alluding me! Otherwise it will be best guess!ThanksDoug Doug, Many thanks for the kind words on the G5. Yes, the superstructure seems to work well though it does need quite a lot of care (but then what etched kit does not need care?). I have had a look at the chassis and can see some modifications which I might make. These are not mods to the basic design but mods to make that design work better - more of that when I get to the chassis assembly. The photo, below, also illustrates where another modification may be beneficial. There is no inside to the tanks below the narrow strip shown in the photo. Now at certain angles, this lack of tank sides on the inside will show via the daylight under the boiler. So I plan to add about 15 mm of tank side on the inside of each tank prior to filling the tanks with lead sheet to provide adhesive weight. This 'grafting' of additional platework should provide experience which will be necessary when I build the extended tank sides for 67340, later in this sequence of builds. I did spend an hour forming and then fitting the tiny splasher top for the motion journal splasher, then ten minutes with the index finger in cold water after soldering it up. I'm afraid I have very little information on NER coaches, never (yet) having built one but I'll try and locate someone who might know. Cheers Mike Edited January 17, 2018 by mikemeg 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Doug, re NERly coaches, are you a member of the North Eastern Railway Assoc, or have you seen the Assoc's books on the subject? You don't have to be a member to buy the books, look on the NERA website. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Thanks Mike and Mick, No I am not a member of NERA which ends up being a challange as I am here in Australia! So a lot of the membership benefits are lost to me. I have thought about joining a number of times which I should do. I did go through their books but I could not see any on the coaches. I already have a number of NER specific books including the HMRS set, Ken hooles book on the locomotives and also one on Branchlines which does have a good photo of the 6 wheeled coaches in it but like usual I was after just that little bit more. I have found so far that the centre line to each compartment has a lamp housing with a vent either side at 1/4 point either side of the lamp housing, (IE across the roof 1/4 of the way through a vent, 1/4 centreline lamp housing, and then 1/4 another vent. longitudinally though all centre lined on the compartment door ) BUT I have also found photos of the coachs with only the lamp housing. Also the livery is a little hard to tie down in the early LNER period as has been suggested in "painted teak" then subsequently in "brown". Prior to all of this it would have been in the NER "lake" colour... which again I can't seem to tie down as to the actual colour. Locally I can't get precision or phoenix paints due to the costs to import them. I may see if I can talk some one who is going to scalefour from here to purchase some paint for me but it is pushing friendships! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markeg Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) Hi Doug, I have thought about joining the NERA on the odd occasion, but like yourself not done it. I have checked there sight and they have a listing of articles in their 'Express' journal. It looks like they have an articles on 6 wheel Clerestory coaches and others. So maybe go through and see if there is anything that is relevant to you. Mike I am watching with interest in your LRM G5 construction. Looking good. Mark Edited January 18, 2018 by Markeg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Thanks Mark, i really shouldn't look things up at work as I didn't see that page in my lunch break! Then again during lunch my colleagues always decide to ask me questions about work, the phone rings or getting generally distracted by other things! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Doug, British Leyland/BMC sold cars there, didn't they? Can you get hold of Rover Damask Red? That's as close as anything to NER Lake, which is a deep red or maroon. I use Triumph Russett brown for coaches and NPCCS as well, following a recommendation by Peter Tatlow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Thanks Jonathan, we have Autobahn and super cheap auto, and Repco who sell car bits! Though due to the changes with modern cars there is a lot less of DIY car things in the way of paint. Once every decent store had a paint rack. Now I think they are all casualties of health and safety, and metallic colours! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markeg Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Doug, we have a Perrows Paint outlet here in Bendigo which supplies paint for the Auto Industry. They can match any colour you require. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5 Again, in between completing the two J77's, I spent a couple of hours on the G5, adding the cab front and completing both splashers. So the boiler was just rested in place with a chimney resting on the smokebox so that a photo can be taken to check levels, etc. All looks ok so far, apart from the top of the cab cutout beading which needs adjusting. Blowiing these photos up so that the model looks closer to 7mm/ft rather than 4mm/ft really does show up any inaccuracies! But I do like to see the light reflecting off the brass and even at this stage the flowing curves of the Victorian design of these locomotives can start to be seen. And quite soon we will, once again, be able to see a full size example working on the heritage lines. Cheers Mike Edited January 18, 2018 by mikemeg 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Doug, British Leyland/BMC sold cars there, didn't they? Can you get hold of Rover Damask Red? That's as close as anything to NER Lake, which is a deep red or maroon. I use Triumph Russett brown for coaches and NPCCS as well, following a recommendation by Peter Tatlow. I seem to recall Damask Red being the aerosol of choice for Midland Lake, in the days before Precision Paints. That or Humbrol 20, if memory also serves... Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 18, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2018 I seem to recall Damask Red being the aerosol of choice for Midland Lake, in the days before Precision Paints. That or Humbrol 20, if memory also serves... Mark Humbrol No. 20 "with a few drops of black" according to the Ratio instructions ever since the 70s. I've never liked Precision Midland Lake - it seems just a little to dark to me. For a rattlecan, I use Halfords Rover Damask Red which as far as I'm aware is available - I think I bought my current can within the last four years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Humbrol No. 20 "with a few drops of black" according to the Ratio instructions ever since the 70s. I've never liked Precision Midland Lake - it seems just a little to dark to me. For a rattlecan, I use Halfords Rover Damask Red which as far as I'm aware is available - I think I bought my current can within the last four years. I was almost right then! As for the Precision colour - it's been a while since I did any Midland modelling, but I got better results with several extremely well thinned coats - a bit like the real thing, but I don't think that 14 coats would have been appropriate! Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Ok well thanks to all who have provided assistance on damask red. Markeg is a lot closer, I will either find a local car paint mixer/ to get to the right colour or use humbrol 20. I have gone through looking for Rover damask red but as the number of rovers in Australia is definitely in a minority compared to Holden and fords it is not a standard held colour. Also it appears Halfords doesn't export into Australia. OK to get a tine would cost a minor fortune in postage for the hazardous clearances. I have done a LMS horse box years ago in a "red" which was as close as I could get so that may be the solution. (I will have to find the rattle can and read the description!) Thanks to all Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5 A little more done on the G5. The cab rear/bunker front has had the coal gate attached, in the open position. The bunker cage, which is a really lovely piece of etching has been very carefully folded up and the corners just touched with the soldering iron; enough to hold the cage in position and no more. The bunker top has also been folded up and assembled. These bunker tops were fitted to locos which would be coaled by the larger coaling towers, such as was installed at Hull's Botanic Gardens depot, where most of Hull's passenger locomotives - including the fleet of G5's - were based. Once folded and assembled, each of these sub-assemblies was given a polishing with the glass fibre brush. Assembling these various sub-assemblies individually should, hopefully, make the job of final assembly of the bunker that much easier. So now to assemble the bunker. Cheers Mike 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 ... never liked Precision Midland Lake - it seems just a little to dark to me. ... I'm not at all convinced that the real shade is precisely known. If you go round the NRM you can come across all sorts of variations in 'crimson lake' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5 The bunker top is now fixed to the cage, so the whole thing is now a single assembly. And if this is assembled properly, then it should all just sit on the bunker without any fixing - and it does. Only just but then, that's enough!! Glad I'm not at the painting stage yet, for I might, mistakenly, do it Midland red!! It occurs to me that painting the inside of this cage, once it is fixed to the bunker, might not be that easy. I think it might get primed and painted before it is fixed to the bunker! In fact this whole assembly will have to await its final fixing until the bunker inside is painted and coaled. So some form of adhesive fixing might be requred, using tiny locatng pieces and superglue!! Cheers Mike Edited January 19, 2018 by mikemeg 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5 Finally, for today, a check of the bunker cage assembly against the rear spectacle plate, though neither are yet fixed. Everythng seems to fit and to match so the cab rear spectacle plate can be fixed. And the nearside cab cut out beading has been adjusted. Now to do the final adjustments and fit the crank pins on the con rods for the 2nd J77 Cheers Mike Edited January 19, 2018 by mikemeg 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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