GWR Toplights Poll

[Coach bogie]

Showing my appalling ignorance of matters GW, how much work would need to be done to adapt the underframe of a Hornby 57' coach to make it suitable for a Toplight?

 

Or putting it another way, how difficult would it be for Hornby to make a 57' Toplight based on their existing Collett models.

At least three different styles of truss rods depending on diagram numbers.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[The Fatadder]

Could someone pm me a copy of the Slaters instructions for the underframe trussing please? My Slaters kit is missing the instructions, and I’d like to make sure I get the underframe right

[81C]

Could someone pm me a copy of the Slaters instructions for the underframe trussing please? My Slaters kit is missing the instructions, and I’d like to make sure I get the underframe right

 

PM sent Rich I keep a folder with kit instructions free to friends a small fee to be donated to charity for others.

[Neal Ball]

Interesting that we now have 133 members casting votes.....

[81C]

Any more thoughts on the way forward Neal we are 18 months on perhaps a summary of anything worthwhile written up to save going over old ground 

then see if any one can come up with a way forward otherwise this idea will disappear into oblivion.

 

Bob

[Compound2632]

Interesting that we now have 133 members casting votes.....

 

Is that one per diagram yet?

[Neal Ball]

Any more thoughts on the way forward Neal we are 18 months on perhaps a summary of anything worthwhile written up to save going over old ground 

then see if any one can come up with a way forward otherwise this idea will disappear into oblivion.

 

Bob

 

 

Thanks Bob,

 

Looking at the voting intentions, I am surprised that there isn't really an appetite for non corridor stock. When in fact we need these for our local services.

 

Not that interested either in a Restaurant carriage, yesterday I saw the new Southern Maunsell carriage from Hornby, which looks great.

 

I doubt on both points modellers of different companies are hugely different. Alongside this carriage, we already have LNER non corridor stock from Bachmann and LMS non corridor stock from Dapol. Presumably they sell well and the expectation for the SR carriage must also be that they sell.

 

So for GWR modellers, its 57ft all round, with a K22 full brake please :-)

 

Overwhelmingly though, we are after GWR shirtbutton liveried stock.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Neal Ball

[Neal Ball]

I have now written to Hornby; Bachmann and Dapol in the hope that they will look at these pages.

 

If someone does decide to bring out a new range of carriages, I would suggest they get announced when they leave the drawing board, to avoid potential duplication.

[Joseph_Pestell]

At least three different styles of truss rods depending on diagram numbers.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Can you highlight please, three or four 57' diagrams with the same truss rods? That might assist the choice.

[martinT]

 

 

Overwhelmingly though, we are after GWR shirtbutton liveried stock.

Neal - how can you know this? None of the 5 possible date ranges are exclusively the relatively short shirt-button era. I'm interested in the period c1922 - ie the changeover from lake to fully-lined C&C - I haven't voted so far because none of the ranges suit me (tho' I guess the 'Pre 1920s' would be be most suitable). Also don't forget anyone modelling the shirt-button era could also legitimately use stock in the 1928 livery - they weren't repainted overnight!

 

Martin

[57xx]

Overwhelmingly though, we are after GWR shirtbutton liveried stock.

 

Erm no, that wasn't what the question asked - I voted on that option not because it said shirtbutton, but because it asked for an era of modelling and that timeframe attributed to it covered it.

[martinT]

Erm no, that wasn't what the question asked - I voted on that option not because it said shirtbutton, but because it asked for an era of modelling and that timeframe attributed to it covered it.

 

It might also be possible to argue that as toplights weren't first-rank stock by the mid-30s they would have been slow to be repainted with the shirt-button, so that in actual fact in the few years before WW2 (& your 3rd date range) arrived, the 1927 livery with the Coat of Arms was still to be seen on many! I must admit I don't understand this enthusiasm for the roundel - altho' it worked well as a logo on stationery, advertising material, etc, it's use on rolling stock seems out of place. It's small size on locos made it look insignificant & in my opinion it was not as attractive as the Coat of Arms it replaced.

 

A heretical argument? Maybe, but I see I'm in good company. In 'Great Western Way' (1978 edn.) Jack Slinn marks end of the use of the roundel with these words: 'One happy development, however, was the scrapping of the circular totem of the letters "GWR" and the return of the Coat of Arms ...'

 

Martin

[NCB]

Showing my appalling ignorance of matters GW, how much work would need to be done to adapt the underframe of a Hornby 57' coach to make it suitable for a Toplight?

 

Or putting it another way, how difficult would it be for Hornby to make a 57' Toplight based on their existing Collett models.

 

The final series of steel-sided toplights had virtually the same underframes. Here's a 3mm scale brake third toplight built from Worlsey sides and ends on a shell derived from a plastic Collett B set coach (one of the later types) kit.

[Coach bogie]

The paneled toplights started with steel rod underframes such as this one on the whitewash coach.

 

Later ones had two sets of rods side by side on the horizontal. This would be very complex for injection molding. Not the clearest view but a real chuncky queen post with one rod goes in from the diagonal and two rods come out horizontally. This one is difficult enough kit building with wire and solder.

 

The final version is the angle iron, similar to the current Hornby Colletts. Many of the later steel sides flush toplights had this one.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[NCB]

It's the small details which might make re-using the Collett bow-ended coach underframe a bit more difficult than it looks. For a start the bow-ended coaches are bow-ended! So the floor pan may not be suitable as it stands. Then there's replacing the 7' bogies, which may need bogie mounts in different positions. The other stuff underneath, like battery boxes, generators, steel angle trusses and so on, may be OK.

[GWR8700]

Before reading this thread I hadnt quite realised how many different variations of GWR Toplights there were. Knowing that, I would much rather see a re-release of the slaters kits than a Hornby/Bachmann RTR attempt. I don’t doubt that that they would make a better coach than me, but they certainly won’t cover all the variations that Slaters have done, and will likely put off somebody else from re-releasing the existing kits in future.

 

What is the likelihood of a re-release of the slaters toplights as I certainly can’t afford a £200 coach?

Apolgies if this has been covered, at work and I can’t scour the thread right now.

[Compound2632]

What is the likelihood of a re-release of the slaters toplights as I certainly can’t afford a £200 coach?

 

 

It is understood that the situation with Coopercraft has been resolved and Slaters are planning to re-issue their 4mm scale injection-moulded kits, beginning with the NER 20 ton hopper wagons. We're also told that it's not going to help to badger Slaters; patience will be rewarded.

[Joseph_Pestell]

It seems then that the sensible option for an r-t-r Toplight would be the later steel-bodied ones as:

a) they have the most similarities between diagrams (and with other stock);

b) they are not the same as the Slater's model.

 

Should keep everyone happy.

[GWR8700]

It is understood that the situation with Coopercraft has been resolved and Slaters are planning to re-issue their 4mm scale injection-moulded kits, beginning with the NER 20 ton hopper wagons. We're also told that it's not going to help to badger Slaters; patience will be rewarded.

Hadn’t seen that. Fantastic!

Will be saving patiently. Thank you!

[NCB]

It seems then that the sensible option for an r-t-r Toplight would be the later steel-bodied ones as:

a) they have the most similarities between diagrams (and with other stock);

b) they are not the same as the Slater's model.

 

Should keep everyone happy.

 

Think so. The steel sided toplights with angle iron trusses would be the least complicated to manufacture as well. The toplights give them a totally different look to the Colletts so it wouldn't be as though the same ground was being covered. I think they're very attractive coaches. Must get on build mine; the 3mm/ft brake third above was meant to be the first of a rake of four.

[Neal Ball]

As expected, in the 2018 wish list poll, Toplights have again scored high on our desired list.

 

Hopefully new GWR carriages will be announced this year and maybe some new variants for the Hornby Collect carriages...

[Siberian Snooper]

As expected, in the 2018 wish list poll, Toplights have again scored high on our desired list.

Hopefully new GWR carriages will be announced this year and maybe some new variants for the Hornby Collect carriages...

We live in hope! But I shan't be holding me breath.

[Neal Ball]

It's interesting to look at this Poll again - 3 years down the line. Even more so, in the light of a "Present your case" page in the current issue of Model Rail petitioning for Toplight carriages.

 

I wonder if we will ever see these carriages produced. Presumably at some point soon Bachmann will replace the ageing sunshine carriages which have been out of the catalogue for a few years.

 

Toplight remain complex to bring to market as a model, given all the variations over the years. I guess it's a case of never say never.

[Neal Ball]

It seems that at last some GWR Toplight carriages are to be produced in RTR 

 

https://www.Dapol.co.uk/OO-Gauge-GWR-Toplight-Mainline-City-Coaches-Announced

 

 

[Karhedron]

Shame that Dapol seem to have abandoned new developments in N Gauge.