Modern Era passenger layouts on the horizon

[Guest FairwayJunction]

A new opportunity

 

In the wake of Bachmann releasing the South West Trains Class 450 units, I am creating this discussion thread to gather interest around the new possibility of building layouts based on the South West Trains network and was wondering if any of you in the community had plans to build a layout revolved around modern era commuter traffic. I've got my eyes set on Havant  .

 

In the past we have had many DMU'S, EMU'S and general commuter trains released by the manufactures but now with the new addition of the class 450, we may see a rise in modern era southern based layouts. Unfortunately Bachmann have yet to release a Southern class 377 which would be wonderful but perhaps Bachmann are running late, just like the trains in real life ;-). Dapol have caught on and are releasing their "Thunderbird" class 73's in both South West Trains and Southern liveries so perhaps we may see a rise in rolling stock from both of those franchises to come. So any of you interested in creating a modern era passenger layout, just let us know below.

 

Cheers, Rory/Fairway Junction.

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2017 by FairwayJunction

[woodenhead]

I wouldn't hold your breath for a flood of EMUs.

 

The 450 is just a 350 with the pantograph removed and an update to the underframe isn't it really so for Bachmann something straightforward to tool of an existing model.

 

Whilst we've had a few 3rd rail EMUs of late the price they are entering the market at now I think is going to put people off and manufacturers are going to want to perhaps not risk something too off the ball - so there is thinking at 4CIG may come from the 4TC but no-one is expecting a 4SUB or 4COR any time soon.  

 

For the modern EMU modeller the West Coast is the place to be still though a 319 of course will look at home still on a modern 3rd rail railway.

[Benjamin Brady]

Hi all,

 

I would like to think if what we are told is correct and the 450s have sold much better than the 350 we might well see a turn towards modern 3rd rail emu rather than those with a coat hanger on the roof. I myself prefer 25kv ohle however as this is a pain to model (having past experience) I see the desire to model the 3rd rail network. I agree that electrostar is currently an opportunity missed by the manufactures especially as so many liveries can be applied to one moulding. I personally would enjoy seeing a 44 modelled but feel a 442 would sell better as a 5 car emu.

 

Raised earlier thought the cost of buying a single unit is putting people off buying more than one and to make a convincing layout based on the 3rd rail network you would need plenty of units especially to create the portion working.

 

Another issue of course looking at modern units is the market for them, there is of course a market out there as people have been buying them, yet when you go around the exhibitions I feel it is something that does not interest the people that attend the shows. There often only being 1 or 2 current era layouts there, or like the last show I attended only 1. I do have to agree with the view that unfortunately it shall be some time before we shall see more modern image emu brought to the market. 

 

Benjamin

[Guest FairwayJunction]

Hi all,

 

I would like to think if what we are told is correct and the 450s have sold much better than the 350 we might well see a turn towards modern 3rd rail emu rather than those with a coat hanger on the roof. I myself prefer 25kv ohle however as this is a pain to model (having past experience) I see the desire to model the 3rd rail network. I agree that electrostar is currently an opportunity missed by the manufactures especially as so many liveries can be applied to one moulding. I personally would enjoy seeing a 44 modelled but feel a 442 would sell better as a 5 car emu.

 

Raised earlier thought the cost of buying a single unit is putting people off buying more than one and to make a convincing layout based on the 3rd rail network you would need plenty of units especially to create the portion working.

 

Another issue of course looking at modern units is the market for them, there is of course a market out there as people have been buying them, yet when you go around the exhibitions I feel it is something that does not interest the people that attend the shows. There often only being 1 or 2 current era layouts there, or like the last show I attended only 1. I do have to agree with the view that unfortunately it shall be some time before we shall see more modern image emu brought to the market. 

 

Benjamin

I do agree the cost of the EMU's are somewhat off putting towards customers who are exploring the modern era. A 444 model would be great but the 442 would be more welcome and actually has a higher possibility of being released. I did some research and the now defunct South West Trains franchise, now known as "South Western Trains" is currently over hauling "eighteen" class 442 units ready for the start of the contact from August the 20th. Multiple liveries could be applied too such as the Gatwick Express which is an anticipated model for some however when the new franchise finally release their new livery, it will be an opportunity to make the model just as Hornby made the GWR class 800s.

 

An interesting topic and as for layouts, the 450 may spark and interest and force Bachmann to release more of the model in Pristine condition but also considering retooling the model for a 444.

[njee20]

The trouble is that things like the 800 are 'iconic', refurbishing some neglected 30 year old stock for the launch of a new franchise isn't really the same.

 

I'd love a 442, but it doesn't strike me as a particularly obvious choice, you've only really got 3 basic liveries - NSE, SWT and Gatwick Express, with the subtle variations of "Gatwick Express" and "Express", plus 2402 in the original SWT livery, which was just NSE with an orange stripe added, and some slight tweaks within NSE. You've got the refurbished MBLSs too if you want to be wholly accurate.

 

The Electrostars have roamed further and wider and although they'd require more different tooling options you've got quite a variety of sub-classes to offer from a broader number of TOCs.

 

I can't see a 450 being "re-tooled" as a 444, basically the only thing you could re-use would be the cab fronts!

[JohnR]

The trouble is that things like the 800 are 'iconic', refurbishing some neglected 30 year old stock for the launch of a new franchise isn't really the same.

 

I'd love a 442, but it doesn't strike me as a particularly obvious choice, you've only really got 3 basic liveries - NSE, SWT and Gatwick Express, with the subtle variations of "Gatwick Express" and "Express", plus 2402 in the original SWT livery, which was just NSE with an orange stripe added, and some slight tweaks within NSE. You've got the refurbished MBLSs too if you want to be wholly accurate.

 

The Electrostars have roamed further and wider and although they'd require more different tooling options you've got quite a variety of sub-classes to offer from a broader number of TOCs.

 

I can't see a 450 being "re-tooled" as a 444, basically the only thing you could re-use would be the cab fronts!

 

You've got the new First SW livery for the 442s, and of course the livery that the new open access operator is going to stick on them. 

[grahame]

I do agree the cost of the EMU's are somewhat off putting towards customers who are exploring the modern era. 

 

EMU prices have not put me off (in N gauge where there really ought be a greater choice of them).

 

You do at least get a complete train for the price. The alternative equivalent is a loco and three or four coaches with the total price of those probably being more (no doubt dependant on loco and coaches chosen). 

 

G.

Edited August 16, 2017 by grahame

[Karhedron]

In the wake of Bachmann releasing the South West Trains Class 450 units, I am creating this discussion thread to gather interest around the new possibility of building layouts based on the South West Trains network and was wondering if any of you in the community had plans to build a layout revolved around modern era commuter traffic. I've got my eyes set on Havant 

Getting back to the OP, I always thought that a layout based on Micheldever station would be a perfect way to showcase these. A compact station site, hemmed in by cutting walls and the RAF fuel store to the east. Popham tunnel to the north and overbridge to the south make perfect scenic breaks. The sidings by the fuel store provide some operational interest. There is quite a variety of traffic apart from the 450s that use this stretch of line or have done in the past few years. Here is a list of useful RTR stock (the selection is wider if you can kit/scratchbuild):

 

Voyagers

158s

159s

Turbostars

66s, 67s and 70s on assorted freight

Regular steam specials (Swanage Belle for example).

 

[woodenhead]

Good choice of prototype Matt - just the one unit required and the rest can be had rather reasonably.

 

Edit: seems more polite to use first names than nicknames when known

Edited August 16, 2017 by woodenhead

[Revolution Ben]

Hi Matt,

 

Great suggestion. What are the freights running through here? Is the fuel store still rail-served?

 

And do the 450s or Electrostars run through here? I ask because the images show 5-car units.

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Ben A

[roundhouse]

Many freight services through Banbury continue through Micheldever to Southampton. The oil terminal sidings have been rusty for some years now.

[Fat Controller]

The 'big hole' was excavated to provide infill material when Southampton Western Docks were extended in the 1930s, I believe.

Freight traffic passing through include maritime container traffic, new cars (inbound and outbound), supplies such as rail and ballast for the Network Rail depot at Eastleigh, and military traffic of all sorts to and from Marchwood Military Port.

At various times, the sidings have been used to store redundant passenger and freight stock.

[Karhedron]

Great suggestion. What are the freights running through here? Is the fuel store still rail-served?

Mostly container traffic down to Southampton. The photo below shows a typical southbound working.

 

 

I am not sure if the fuel store is still rail served or not but the sidings are still in use. One of the  most common features at Micheldever over the last decade, has been the temporary storage of WIA car carriers.

The WIA's are one of the mainstays of freight flows into and out of Southampton docks, running up to 9 or 10 5-car sets (45 or 50 wagons long) and some of the 5-car sets can regularly be seen stored at Eastleigh and Micheldever.

 

 

WIAs are available RTR from CJM and a second mortgage is available from reputable lenders to help you afford a scale-length rake

 

The WIAs are also available in kit form from Etched Pixels I think.

 

And do the 450s or Electrostars run through here? I ask because the images show 5-car units.

No Electrostars as far as I am aware but the 450s definitely work here on a regular basis. The services from Waterloo to Portsmouth via Basingstoke are often in the hands of the 450s and some work down to Southampton too (although the 5-car 444s are more common on the Bournemouth and Weymouth services). Here is a shot of a 450 at Micheldever, sorry for the low-res.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brushsulzertype4/34650464781/in/photolist-cPgNju-UMWFYz-eWaN2b-eVYoJT-cTPRSd-6uKQrZ-eN1zWf-ow8YLJ-L7weog

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/126254131@N05/28953495151/in/photolist-UMWFYz-eWaN2b-eVYoJT-cTPRSd-cPgNju-6uKQrZ-eN1zWf-ow8YLJ-L7weog

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/stephenpoole/7754882256/in/photolist-UMWFYz-eWaN2b-eVYoJT-cTPRSd-cPgNju-6uKQrZ-eN1zWf-ow8YLJ-L7weog

 

[Pete the Elaner]

An MU has traditionally been less appealing to the modeller & spectator than a loco plus coaches.

An advantage to the modeller is that most MUs look the same. Would it really look very wrong to have 350101 running back & forth?

You could not get away with an EWS 66 with its 4' tall numbers on every freight or a named loco like 91107 Skyfall, running every passenger train. For these you would need some extra locos, although the train itself would probably go unnoticed.

So you would actually need less units than locos to run a decent looking service.

This may work in modellers favour but against manufactureres because those who want to model a decent service won't need to buy so many.

[grahame]

An MU has traditionally been less appealing to the modeller & spectator than a loco plus coaches.

An advantage to the modeller is that most MUs look the same.

Less appealing to some maybe, but not all modellers/enthusiasts. In the same way that a steam loco and antique coaches doesn't float everyone's boat. Certainly there are some older enthusiasts who have a downer on modern stock (possibly as it replaced their beloved steamers) but things are changing and there is a growing number of modellers taking an interest in the D&E scene.

 

There maybe some MUs that look similar but in the same token many GWR steam loco look similar. And there is a huge range of MU types and styles, and a massive choice of colourful liveries.

 

G

[Karhedron]

There maybe some MUs that look similar but in the same token many GWR steam loco look similar. And there is a huge range of MU types and styles, and a massive choice of colourful liveries.

I agree that the MU scene is more varied that some people give it credit for. Although possibly some MU liveries are a little too colourful for some people's tastes.   

 

[grahame]

. . . . possibly some MU liveries are a little too colourful for some people's tastes. 

 

 

I guess, . . .  in the same way that some locomotive liveries are plain, boring, dreary and dull 

 

 

G.

[Karhedron]

Touché sir!

[Pacific231G]

Mostly container traffic down to Southampton. The photo below shows a typical southbound working.

 

 

I am not sure if the fuel store is still rail served or not but the sidings are still in use. One of the  most common features at Micheldever over the last decade, has been the temporary storage of WIA car carriers.

The WIA's are one of the mainstays of freight flows into and out of Southampton docks, running up to 9 or 10 5-car sets (45 or 50 wagons long) and some of the 5-car sets can regularly be seen stored at Eastleigh and Micheldever.

 

 

WIAs are available RTR from CJM and a second mortgage is available from reputable lenders to help you afford a scale-length rake

 

The WIAs are also available in kit form from Etched Pixels I think.

 

 

No Electrostars as far as I am aware but the 450s definitely work here on a regular basis. The services from Waterloo to Portsmouth via Basingstoke are often in the hands of the 450s and some work down to Southampton too (although the 5-car 444s are more common on the Bournemouth and Weymouth services).

 

I see Micheldever station from the air every few weeks (Popham Airfield is just to the north east of it on the other side of the A303) and I think all the pipework for the oil terminal, which has been out of use since the mid 1990s but was kept in reserve for some years, has now gone and the access tunnels blocked off. The WIAs have been a frequent sight in the sidings there for some years.

I quite often see freight trains on the line between there and Basingstoke but can't recall seeing anything recently that wasn't containers (which doesn't mean that's all there is as I've seen car trains in Southampton Eastern Docks fairly recently and assume they go that way) 

 

I can also recommend The Dove Inn behind the station 

Edited August 17, 2017 by Pacific231G

[Pete the Elaner]

I agree that the MU scene is more varied that some people give it credit for. Although possibly some MU liveries are a little too colourful for some people's tastes.   

 

Not the first time that my words have deliberately been twisted on here.

I'm sure it won't be the last either.